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Chief Stipe

Latest version of the Racing Industry Bill - LAND GRAB!

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Let me add, root and branch reform, and to show an interest in racing full stop.......I'm a farmer he said......his words, the bloke was a bull shitter and a sycophant crawling up Key's arse........

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1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said:

A fucking Royal Commission! for starters!

Why? Based on what?

1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Let me add, root and branch reform, and to show an interest in racing full stop.......I'm a farmer he said......his words, the bloke was a bull shitter and a sycophant crawling up Key's arse........

The minister shouldn't be required to know how many legs a horse has. He isn't responsible for day to day operations. That's why a separate crown entity was created. So that they could employ the experts to act as the vehicle for funding and promoting racing. 

The minister should only care about the reporting that body does as to its performance. But if they were to boot out the board/CEO on that basis, we'd have a new board and CEO every year. And still be no better off.

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I'd prefer zero ministerial involvement. Actually a complete sell off of all racing related entities. Set the laws in place as to operation, like they do for s casino. And tell them to sort their own shit out.

Why the government needs to continue babysitting them is anyone's guess. Made worse by not just babysitting them, but gifting them millions each year along the way. Crazy.

Edited by mardigras
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We didn't have a Minister initially,  did we?

We were under the auspices of the D.I.A as far as I remember,   and whatever structures we operated under, seemed to do very well ( by todays standards).

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Why? Based on what?

The minister shouldn't be required to know how many legs a horse has. He isn't responsible for day to day operations. That's why a separate crown entity was created. So that they could employ the experts to act as the vehicle for funding and promoting racing. 

The minister should only care about the reporting that body does as to its performance. But if they were to boot out the board/CEO on that basis, we'd have a new board and CEO every year. And still be no better off.

Attitudes like that is why NZ went from first world to third world, fossil thinking, get real.

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NSW is booming, why, because Kevin Green the racing minister in the NSW Sate Gov was well versed in all things racing, his politics aside, Kevin and a forward thinking Gov turned NSW on it's head....and they didn't need to acquire someone else's assets to do it.

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6 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Attitudes like that is why NZ went from first world to third world, fossil thinking, get real.

Funny but I think you've got that around the wrong way.

Expecting governments to subsidise/prop up an industry that delivers nothing is fossil thinking.

That's the problem. No one here wants to 'get real', and thinks the government should come to the party. Which they already do.

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6 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

NSW is booming, why, because Kevin Green the racing minister in the NSW Sate Gov was well versed in all things racing, his politics aside, Kevin and a forward thinking Gov turned NSW on it's head....and they didn't need to acquire someone else's assets to do it.

I'm not sure what NSW has to do with this. They don't control the racing operators in that state. And they don't prop up the industry either. 

They are a receiver of money from the industry, not a payer like the NZ government.

They divested their control of betting operators. Something NZ should have done years ago. As I said, why is the NZ government still babysitting an industry?

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2 hours ago, mardigras said:

I'm sure each and every minister has taken note of what was going on. I would say there should be little interest in doing anything after having taken note. 

Can you provide what the minister is actually accountable for? As in, what are the KPIs to which he is measured or something similar?

 

 

 The Minister is there fior a reason not just to sit on his arse and observe. Other Ministers are proactive with their portfolios. I would have expected Nathan Clown to have set clear instructions for example around cost to income which had been steadily rising and to monitor it. That would have been a good start but I would not expect Nathan Clown to know what that ratio was.

Edited by Bloke
grammar

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5 minutes ago, mardigras said:

I'm not sure what NSW has to do with this. They don't control the racing operators in that state. And they don't prop up the industry either. 

They are a receiver of money from the industry, not a payer like the NZ government.

They divested their control of betting operators. Something NZ should have done years ago. As I said, why is the NZ government still babysitting an industry?

In other words, the NSW industry stands on its own feet AND contributes to government funds? If a Minister or Government here had any gumption they would insist on the same thing and then as you said, maybe racing would sort it's shit out instead of standing round with its hand out wanting an increase in their social welfare payments.

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2 minutes ago, Bloke said:

 The Minister is there fior a reason not just to sit on his arse an observe. Other Ministers are proactive with their portfolios. I would have expected Nathan Clown to have set clear instructions for example around cost to income which had been steadily rising and to monitor it. That would have been a good start but I would not expect Nathan Clown to know what that ratio was.

Isn't that the job of the codes and other members of the RITA board, not the Minister?

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6 minutes ago, Bloke said:

 The Minister is there fior a reason not just to sit on his arse an observe. Other Ministers are proactive with their portfolios. I would have expected Nathan Clown to have set clear instructions for example around cost to income which had been steadily rising and to monitor it. That would have been a good start but I would not expect Nathan Clown to know what that ratio was.

And if they didn't meet it? What then? Boot them out? 

That's great. So over the last 10 years, that's 10 new boards and a new CEO appointed is it? 

That would have changed everything. 

The business should be accountable to the industry. And the minister accountable for the business delivering to the reasons the crown entity was established.

FFS, they're running a damn business. They're not in kindergarten.

Edited by mardigras

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Yes it normally is but when as a Minister you see these functions not being actioned surely you have to take some action. 

Bayliss was a loose cannon and he was able to go on an unabated spending spree which the Board appeared to do nothing about. Nathan Clown needed to intervene.

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6 minutes ago, curious said:

In other words, the NSW industry stands on its own feet AND contributes to government funds? If a Minister or Government here had any gumption they would insist on the same thing and then as you said, maybe racing would sort it's shit out instead of standing round with its hand out wanting an increase in their social welfare payments.

Yep, spot on. That's about the only effective thing the minister should have done. 

I haven't seen that suggested by any of them. So none are any better or worse than each other.

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3 minutes ago, mardigras said:

And if they didn't meet it? What then? Boot them out? 

That's great. So over the last 10 years, that's 10 new boards and a new CEO appointed is it? 

That would have changed everything. 

The business should be accountable to the industry. And the minister accountable for the business delivering to the reasons the crown entity was established.

FFS, they're running a damn business. They're not in kindergarten.

Given their history they have been running a kindergarten. 

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Just now, Bloke said:

Yes it normally is but when as a Minister you see these functions not being actioned surely you have to take some action. 

Bayliss was a loose cannon and he was able to go on an unabated spending spree which the Board appeared to do nothing about. Nathan Clown needed to intervene.

That's a board issue. If NZRB was incapable of functioning, divest it. Piece of cake - and stop the bleeding.

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3 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Yep, spot on. That's about the only effective thing the minister should have done. 

I haven't seen that suggested by any of them. So none are any better or worse than each other.

I think one or two of them may have said that but the industry's ears must have been blocked. They should be at least paying government a licence fee for the monopoly wagering business rights.

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If you compare NZTAB and our govt. with Aus state govts and their TABs and corporates,  I dont see where our govt earns a great deal - if anything .  Now, anyway. May have done once.

Can you explain to a mathematically challenged person please?

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That's a board issue. If NZRB was incapable of functioning, divest it. Piece of cake - and stop the bleeding.

Why hasn't that happened? Do you ever ask yourself that? The place is rooted, no one gives a fuck, if they did then racing would pay for it's self. Oh BTW, to answer your comment earlier, in fact NSW gov did in fact contribute, and that's a fact......try 139 mil, in exchange for the rights to the animated Trackside game, and they didn't force Canterbury to be sold either. That will happen, and another 200 mil odd will jump in. I know Kevin Green, he's been fabulous for racing, if only you could grasp the concept, you need a racing man in a racing ministry, listening to sycophants and all the coat tugging by arselickers, what  sorry shitholes that Beehive and the Petone hot air ballon must be. It could have been oh so different, all it took was intellect and understanding of how valuable a solid and productive revenue stream racing was and still is in many jurisdictions.

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39 minutes ago, mumbles said:

While Rome has been burning who has been making the big money.?

A bunch of breeders.

They don't seem concerned.

Oh, they are - they want a thriving industry to frank the value of their stock...but don't comprehend that their demands have, in the main,  contributed to the current state we are in, where stakes paid out have no relevance to what is earned on a given race.

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2 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Oh BTW, to answer your comment earlier, in fact NSW gov did in fact contribute, and that's a fact......try 139 mil, in exchange for the rights to the animated Trackside game, and they didn't force Canterbury to be sold either. That will happen, and another 200 mil odd will jump in. I know Kevin Green, he's been fabulous for racing, if only you could grasp the concept, you need a racing man in a racing ministry, listening to sycophants and all the coat tugging by arselickers, what  sorry shitholes that Beehive and the Petone hot air ballon must be. It could have been oh so different, all it took was intellect and understanding of how valuable a solid and productive revenue stream racing was and still is in many jurisdictions.

I think you are confusing giving with the act of buying or selling something. But it won't make a difference what I say. As I also said, I'm not sure what NSW has to do with the discussion since I have always been in favour of the government not being in the business of operating TABs or bookies. NSW and I are in agreement there.

The facts are very simple in the way the industries are run as of right now. They are completely different. The NSW government generates revenue directly from racing (as does Victoria). They earn from it, and then they may have areas they then give some of that back to (but not all of it).

NZ government does not earn directly from NZ racing. NZRB derives revenue and then pays out more than it gets from NZ racing out to the industry (like a claw back of the GST & betting levies they would have otherwise received from NZ Racing.).

The ones that will then go on about indirect revenue are dreamers. There is very little GDP from NZ racing. I'd like them to show otherwise.

3 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Why hasn't that happened? Do you ever ask yourself that? The place is rooted, no one gives a fuck, if they did then racing would pay for it's self. 

I've thought about it many times. I suspect more often than most. And I am lost as to why they haven't done it. But it is likely too late now.

Yes, the place is rooted. And was rooted by the NZRB management with the full support of the codes. if the government had sold it before it was rooted, NZ racing had a chance. now, next to none.

Even worse, if a new government really decides they don't like racing, then it will be ribbons for sure. One brush of the pen to change some very favourable legislation, and the industry will pretty much die.

All because the governments have retained state control of something they are not in the business of. 

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3 hours ago, Fred said:

Racing is an income earner for Govt, but some seem to promote a myth that things are otherwise.

Sure. Care to quantify it.

Edited by mardigras

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