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Bit Of A Yarn

A Bit of Humour for Brodie!


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6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You really have absolutely no idea of modern farming practices do you?  Nor the science of nitrogen cycle.

 

You like rubbishing what i have to say.  You often keep your head in the sand. Ignore what the experts say if you wish.Your at odds with what they all say.Doesn't worry me.

Edited by the galah
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6 minutes ago, the galah said:

You like rubbishing what i have to say. Doesn't worry me. You often keep your head in the sand.

I provide real science on a subject that I definitely know more about than you and it is me that has my head in the sand?

I'm assuming you have been referring to Canterbury in these latest posts.  As I said nitrate levels in the aquifers of the Canterbury Plains have been flagged as an issue for at least the last 40 years.  It isn't caused by Dairy Farming.

Of course you won't argue the science by producing references or cites but just talk in vague terms of "they say" etc.

Much the same as your inferences to drug cheating and PED use in racing.  

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13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I provide real science on a subject that I definitely know more about than you and it is me that has my head in the sand?

I'm assuming you have been referring to Canterbury in these latest posts.  As I said nitrate levels in the aquifers of the Canterbury Plains have been flagged as an issue for at least the last 40 years.  It isn't caused by Dairy Farming.

Of course you won't argue the science by producing references or cites but just talk in vague terms of "they say" etc.

Much the same as your inferences to drug cheating and PED use in racing.  

Same old same old. Like i always say, your consistent. I just referred you to an article citing a recent study undertaken by victoria and otago university which specifically refers to the effect farming,in particular intensive dairy farming has had on the nitrate levels in drinking water and how that relates to bowel cancer.  Ignore it if you want. 

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1 hour ago, the galah said:

I just referred you to an article citing a recent study undertaken by victoria and otago university which specifically refers to the effect farming,in particular intensive dairy farming has had on the nitrate levels in drinking water and how that relates to bowel cancer. 

You made a vague reference.  You didn't put up a cite/reference and for all we know the quote was a paraphrased one based on your memory.

As I said nitrate levels were a concern in Canterbury well before dairy farm intensification.  Perhaps the researchers you paraphrased weren't old enough to remember that research.  You will find that the nitrate levels then were not dissimilar to today's.  I'd be interested to see their methodology in determining the origin of the nitrates and distinguishing between ALL the various sources.

Show me the evidence.

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No doubt the articles you reference were a pitch for medical research funding from Central Government.  Wouldn't surprise me if they were a beneficiary in the funding announcement this week.  Oh for the days when funding wasn't contestable and the scientific method prevailed.

As for the article you paraphrased - here is a direct quote (note the region with the highest occurrence is the Southern DHB NOT Canterbury):

Between 300,000 and 800,000 New Zealanders may be exposed to potentially harmful levels of nitrates in their drinking water, which may increase their chances of developing bowel cancer.

In no way were the researchers saying their results proved nitrates were causing higher rates of colorectal cancer in the Southern DHB area, he said, but they were calling for more research into the issue, as the different cancer rates could not be easily explained by differences in key risk factors.

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The report was based on a 2018 Danish study which sought to link higher rates of colorectal cancel to those people living in regions with a groundwater nitrate level above 0.87mg/l. It stated that somewhere between 300,000 and 800,000 Kiwis were at risk of getting colorectal cancer because they were drinking high nitrate water.

Then on February 24th, a second article was published also in Stuff. Dr Frank Frizelle, a bowel cancer surgeon and the medical advisor for Bowel Cancer NZ, cautioned against the over interpreting of studies that seek to prove a link between water nitrates and bowel cancer. He pointed out high rates of colorectal cancer were unlikely to be caused by high levels of nitrates in the ground water as the 2018 Danish study found.

Dr Frizelle said that of seven studies undertaken around the world on the same issue, four showed no significant difference, two indicated a slight increase in risk and the Danish study showed a notable increase in bowel cancer. However, when the analysis of all seven studies was measured against the number of bowel cancer cases recorded, it was questionable that there was “anything there at all” in terms of increased risk.

Dr Frizelle suggested that the cause of bowel cancer could be due to the higher rates of meat consumption (an established risk factor) in rural communities. These rural communities also tend to have higher water nitrate levels. The above is a great example of how we can use numbers to support an opinion. The Danish report measured high rates of colorectal cancer in areas with high water nitrate levels. They assumed one (water nitrates) caused the other (colorectal cancer). However, as Dr Frizelle, a person who knows a lot about colorectal cancer points out, “What we have got now is a very loose association with nitrates and bowel cancer, and perhaps it doesn’t exist at all ... there is no logical reason or cause and effect.”

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18 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

No doubt the articles you reference were a pitch for medical research funding from Central Government.  Wouldn't surprise me if they were a beneficiary in the funding announcement this week.  Oh for the days when funding wasn't contestable and the scientific method prevailed.

As for the article you paraphrased - here is a direct quote (note the region with the highest occurrence is the Southern DHB NOT Canterbury):

Between 300,000 and 800,000 New Zealanders may be exposed to potentially harmful levels of nitrates in their drinking water, which may increase their chances of developing bowel cancer.

In no way were the researchers saying their results proved nitrates were causing higher rates of colorectal cancer in the Southern DHB area, he said, but they were calling for more research into the issue, as the different cancer rates could not be easily explained by differences in key risk factors.

South canterbury,means the southern part of canterbury.Check the map. Its not a southern region as you suggest.

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5 minutes ago, the galah said:

South canterbury,means the southern part of canterbury.Check the map. Its not a southern region as you suggest.

The article said SOUTHERN DHB!  Check the map!

image.png

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2 hours ago, the galah said:

You like rubbishing what i have to say.

Your not alone as many have given up posting by the looks of it for just that reason.

Edited by JJ Flash
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27 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The article said SOUTHERN DHB!  Check the map!

image.png

We are going in circles again.I don't know what article you refer to,but i know i have been talking the whole way through about same area,which is the area with the reportedly highest rates of bowel cancer in nz,which i believe to be South canterbury.Thats what there DHB says. Thats why the free bowel screening test. I think its time we agree to disagree.

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56 minutes ago, the galah said:

We are going in circles again.I don't know what article you refer to,but i know i have been talking the whole way through about same area,which is the area with the reportedly highest rates of bowel cancer in nz,which i believe to be South canterbury.Thats what there DHB says. Thats why the free bowel screening test. I think its time we agree to disagree.

The article refers to the research YOU quoted!!!!!  The one that extrapolates the findings of a Danish study and was done by Victoria and Otago Universities.  The one you quoted that said 300,000 to 800,000 NZ'ers may have increased risk of bowel cancer.  The Jane Richards, Tim Chambers et al.  It says the Southern DHB region has the highest bowel cancer rates even though Canterbury has the highest nitrate levels.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/nitrate-levels-water-could-be-cancer-risk

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/436879/up-to-800-000-new-zealanders-may-have-increased-bowel-cancer-risk-due-to-nitrates-in-water

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29435982/

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1 hour ago, JJ Flash said:

Your not alone as many have given up posting by the looks of it for just that reason.

Well @JJ Flash having an opinion that makes yours look like rubbish isn't hard.

I reserve the right for anyone on BOAY to challenge what others post if they have a cogent argument.  @the galah has posted about nitrates in Canterbury water and bowel cancer.  Both topics I have studied in quite some depth.  One at University and the other while working as the senior project manager for the MOH on an attempt at introducing a nationwide bowel cancer screening programme.  Knowing how the MOH operate I'm not surprised that it has taken ten more years to get something done.  The solution I researched and provided a business case for would have taken 18 months.

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42 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The article refers to the research YOU quoted!!!!!  The one that extrapolates the findings of a Danish study and was done by Victoria and Otago Universities.  The one you quoted that said 300,000 to 800,000 NZ'ers may have increased risk of bowel cancer.  The Jane Richards, Tim Chambers et al.  It says the Southern DHB region has the highest bowel cancer rates even though Canterbury has the highest nitrate levels.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/nitrate-levels-water-could-be-cancer-risk

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/436879/up-to-800-000-new-zealanders-may-have-increased-bowel-cancer-risk-due-to-nitrates-in-water

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29435982/

I don't wish to go on,but your playing with words.

Your saying  canterbury as a whole doesn't have the levels that the southern region has,as if that contradicts what i have said.  Well i have only ever been referring to the region South Canterbury. I've said it more than once. The South Canterbury region has historically had the highest level of cases per 100,000 people.I don't know what the last couple of years figures are,but thats something thats always been accepted as fact. Its easy enough to confirm it if you google it.Its been widely reported. And people who live in that region in areas which have seen increases in intensive dairying in the last 2 decades have seen increases in their waters nitrate levels.  You may be knowlegable on this subject,but have not produced anything that disproves what i have said. You just play with words. thats my last comment on  the subject.

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25 minutes ago, the galah said:

I don't wish to go on,but your playing with words.

Your saying  canterbury as a whole doesn't have the levels that the southern region has,as if that contradicts what i have said.  Well i have only ever been referring to the region South Canterbury. I've said it more than once. The South Canterbury region has historically had the highest level of cases per 100,000 people.I don't know what the last couple of years figures are,but thats something thats always been accepted as fact. Its easy enough to confirm it if you google it.Its been widely reported. And people who live in that region in areas which have seen increases in intensive dairying in the last 2 decades have seen increases in their waters nitrate levels.  You may be knowlegable on this subject,but have not produced anything that disproves what i have said. You just play with words. thats my last comment on  the subject.

You quoted research that says something quite different to what you have just posted.

The research says that the Southern DHB has the highest rate of colorectal cancer but the Canterbury region has the highest water nitrate levels.  The latter has been a historical fact for decades with levels being high when farming was predominantly arable and dry stock.

Southland led the resurgence of Dairy in the South Island in the early 90's.  I know because I worked for the largest corporate dairy farmer in NZ at the time.

That aside if you read the research that you quoted AND the opinions that arose from it you will find that the a link between water nitrate levels is by no means certain.  Paraphrasing what one researcher said "the people of South Canterbury may eat more red meat than elsewhere in NZ"!

Now let's discuss the Navarros and Servis indictments shall we?

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