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Weasel

Tavistock 2017-18 NZ Season stats

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ANOTHER TOP PERFORMANCE ...

TAVISTOCK 2017-18 SEASON NZ

Tavistock

91

566

40

67

129

3

5

$1,712,229

 

Individual Winners: 40 (from 91 starters) approx. 44% winners to starters in NZ this season

Races Won: 67 (SR: 8:44)

Distance range: 1200m – 3200m

Geographic range: Ruakaka to Invercargill, New Plymouth to Gisborne; no West Coast Sth Isl winners!

Nth Island wins: 58

Sth Island wins: 9

Winningest Distances:

·        Sprint: 1200-1400m: 26 of 67  (10 +16 respectively)

·        Mile:1600m (incl 1550+): 22 of 67

·        Stayers (2000m+): 19 of 67

Shortest Winning Distance: 1200m

Longest Winning Distance: 3200m (NZ Cup)

Track Conditions: from Good 2 (Woodville, Jan 25) to Heavy 11 (several)

·        Good: 16

·        Dead: 25

·        Slow: 12

·        Heavy: 14

 

Top 3 Performers: Gobstopper, Hiflyer, Travimyfriend

Outcrosses: 30 (ie different damsires)

Most successful outcross: by Tavistock from Stravinsky mares (11 wins from 6 horses)

Best sprinter-miler: Hiflyer (4 wins, incl 2 x Gp 3)

Best stayer: Gobstopper (3 wins, incl NZ Cup, Gp 3)

Males v females: 37 wins from males;  30 wins from females

 POINTS OF INTEREST

·        More wins from sprinters than milers or stayers this season.

·        Wins on all kinds of tracks and all track conditions and over all distances ...AGAIN

·        No Group 1 or Group 2 wins in NZ 2017-18 season but still 4th on overall stakes won

·        0 x wins by 2yos in NZ (from only 3 starters -  one of which won recently in Australia ...Tavisan)

·        9 x wins by 3yos from 19 starters (none of them won more than one race)

·        23 x wins by 4yos

·        24 x wins by 5yos

·        11 wins by 6yos

 

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Do you think he has gone a bit quiet this season? I thought they may have dropped his fee off the back of the season he has had.

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Not significantly ..slightly down on black type performers and no 'superstar' 3yos here or in Australia getting headlines

(cf 2016/17 season: exactly same number of individual winners (40) of 72 races: total stakes within $20k of season just ended ie about $1.7m

But still extremely good overall stats for a relatively young sire - 

Versatile, better as they get older, strong and tough.

Waiting for the 3yo fillies to win some Classics !!

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Interesting 45% of his winners for the season are female, given there is a feeling that he is a sire of Colts/Geldings.

I saw a nice one finish off well at Sale yesterday "Get out of My Neigh" might be worth following over a bit more ground.

You'd certainly think this season or next he'd be challenging Savabeel for the Premiership given his stud fee and status at CS.

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thanks for pointing that out, Huey...crazy name for a racehorse .I'd noticed the name but didn't relaise it was a son of Tavistock.

..I've had a quick look at its damside...grandmother Secret Truth (CAN) was by Secretariat and plenty of other staying blood there.

GOOMN is now 4 and, as you say, looks like it will go ok when stepped up over longer trip and learns the game! Black Booker!

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On 2/08/2018 at 10:11 AM, Huey said:

Interesting 45% of his winners for the season are female, given there is a feeling that he is a sire of Colts/Geldings.

I saw a nice one finish off well at Sale yesterday "Get out of My Neigh" might be worth following over a bit more ground.

You'd certainly think this season or next he'd be challenging Savabeel for the Premiership given his stud fee and status at CS.

I actually think this year could be challenging for him. The new CS owners have their “own” stallion to look after and ensure he is full.  Plus they have upped the fees for Burgundy and taken on Highly Recommended so both of will need plenty of work to ensure they’ve got good numbers. That leaves Tavistock at $65k...and unless there are good number of mares coming over from Australia, I don’t know where you find the number of quality mares in NZ who are worth spending $65k on?  And there are a few new stallions to compete with. So the fact he didn’t have a headline performer in Australia this year, may hurt him in the short term. 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

I actually think this year could be challenging for him. The new CS owners have their “own” stallion to look after and ensure he is full.  Plus they have upped the fees for Burgundy and taken on Highly Recommended so both of will need plenty of work to ensure they’ve got good numbers. That leaves Tavistock at $65k...and unless there are good number of mares coming over from Australia, I don’t know where you find the number of quality mares in NZ who are worth spending $65k on?  And there are a few new stallions to compete with. So the fact he didn’t have a headline performer in Australia this year, may hurt him in the short term. 

 

 

I tend to agree , that season he had with Tavago,Tarzino etc was such a good season it looks hard to repeat so anything less provides a challenge for him. 

As you say surely Almanzor gets a lot of the mares Tavistock has been getting, they may also be a hard sell at the sales. I note he has served over 550 mares in the last 3 seasons so certainly the numbers are going to be there.

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4 minutes ago, Huey said:

I tend to agree , that season he had with Tavago,Tarzino etc was such a good season it looks hard to repeat so anything less provides a challenge for him. 

As you say surely Almanzor gets a lot of the mares Tavistock has been getting, they may also be a hard sell at the sales. I note he has served over 550 mares in the last 3 seasons so certainly the numbers are going to be there.

Yes, that’s the conundrum isn’t it...you’ve paid full tote odds for the service and you’re competing with, give or take, 140other yearlings for  a piece of the sales pie. So your return is not as lucrative ..but you’ve risked good money...and what happens if you’ve got a filly?  Ahhh...I would think the colts will still be popular with trainers...but those dedicated followers of fashion who spend other people’s money, will be on to the next big stallion making stallion....two different games we play...

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Sure if you can get a nice colt.. but not many continue to perform as entires so that is also a risk.. fillies.. they become mares and the only issue, if they have a good line,  is whether they are unable to conceive ..  I favour a nice bred filly personally especially if as a purchaser, I am keen to breed on.   If the filly doesn't make it on the racetrack you still have a pretty decent acquisition and thus equity is a bit more positively used. 

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On 29/07/2018 at 11:46 PM, Weasel said:

ANOTHER TOP PERFORMANCE ...

TAVISTOCK 2017-18 SEASON NZ

 

Tavistock

 

91

 

566

 

40

 

67

 

129

 

3

 

5

 

$1,712,229

 

 

 

Individual Winners: 40 (from 91 starters) approx. 44% winners to starters in NZ this season

 

Races Won: 67 (SR: 8:44)

 

Distance range: 1200m – 3200m

 

Geographic range: Ruakaka to Invercargill, New Plymouth to Gisborne; no West Coast Sth Isl winners!

Nth Island wins: 58

 

Sth Island wins: 9

 

Winningest Distances:

 

·        Sprint: 1200-1400m: 26 of 67  (10 +16 respectively)

 

·        Mile:1600m (incl 1550+): 22 of 67

 

·        Stayers (2000m+): 19 of 67

 

Shortest Winning Distance: 1200m

 

Longest Winning Distance: 3200m (NZ Cup)

 

Track Conditions: from Good 2 (Woodville, Jan 25) to Heavy 11 (several)

 

·        Good: 16

 

·        Dead: 25

 

·        Slow: 12

 

·        Heavy: 14

 

 

 

Top 3 Performers: Gobstopper, Hiflyer, Travimyfriend

 

Outcrosses: 30 (ie different damsires)

 

Most successful outcross: by Tavistock from Stravinsky mares (11 wins from 6 horses)

 

Best sprinter-miler: Hiflyer (4 wins, incl 2 x Gp 3)

 

Best stayer: Gobstopper (3 wins, incl NZ Cup, Gp 3)

 

Males v females: 37 wins from males;  30 wins from females

 

 

 POINTS OF INTEREST

·        More wins from sprinters than milers or stayers this season.

 

·        Wins on all kinds of tracks and all track conditions and over all distances ...AGAIN

·        No Group 1 or Group 2 wins in NZ 2017-18 season but still 4th on overall stakes won

 

·        0 x wins by 2yos in NZ (from only 3 starters -  one of which won recently in Australia ...Tavisan)

 

·        9 x wins by 3yos from 19 starters (none of them won more than one race)

 

·        23 x wins by 4yos

 

·        24 x wins by 5yos

 

·        11 wins by 6yos

 

Seen the invercargill winner by tavistock back in February sat 3 wide the whole 2100m trip and won by a nose, gutsy effort that's for sure. Not to many horses can do that, he was a 6yo.

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Shad

Yiu are correct re Shantav Invercargill winner in eb  6yo at the time..so I will have to correct my records! 22 wins from 5yos and 13 wins by 6yos in season just completed (I had Shantav down as a 5yo and he won twice in the season!)

Cheers

 

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All good, see he went a good race fresh up in open class at Ashburton, the 58kg to much weight last start, good honest type.

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7 hours ago, Weasel said:

Riccarton tomorrow! R82 2000m 57.5kg minus 2kg claim..

should be competitive

Like to think so, but the puggy track and the wide draw may trip him up, need plenty of luck I think, seems to go forward in his races so a candidate to get posted from the draw, backed him one day when the magic man was on, posted 3 and 4 wide the trip carrying 59kg beaten before the turn, came out a week later with Jacob Lowry and won.Word is he likes a sloppy track.But he is as honest as they come.

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6 hours ago, Shad said:

Like to think so, but the puggy track and the wide draw may trip him up, need plenty of luck I think, seems to go forward in his races so a candidate to get posted from the draw, backed him one day when the magic man was on, posted 3 and 4 wide the trip carrying 59kg beaten before the turn, came out a week later with Jacob Lowry and won.Word is he likes a sloppy track.But he is as honest as they come.

better hopethere some rain there Wed!

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3 hours ago, Weasel said:

Hey Shad

Its raining now at Riccarton!

 

Thanks weasel, he went a good race running  on from the back, on a day where not many did, bit of a front running bias today ,looking at the program,  not much around for him, so a freshen up maybe on the cards.

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i thought the run was game and honest ...very wide into the straight didnt help but the winner won too well for excuses. 3rd woulda been nice though! I'l lkeep an eye out for him 

cheers

 

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I see the full sister Milseain to Werther had a barrier trial at Gosford last few days so can't be far away from kicking off her 4yo campaign.

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TAVISTOCK is in desperate need of a Spring star in Australia before the first of his $65k crop go to auction at Karaka in 2019. Otherwise his progeny are going to crash the Karaka Premier Sales average downwards.

He has left nothing of note since Werther(1st Crop) or Tarzino and Tavago(2nd Crop).

The Tavistocks are no good at 2, and have done nothng of note at 3 the last 2 racing seasons. No serious Australian buyer/syndicator is going to pay a lot of money for a yearling that's not going to show their best until 4 or 5. The Aussies are NZ's biggest market for yearlings followed by Hong Kong.

Cambridge Stud have enjoyed the the success of Werther, Tarzino and Tavago for 2 breeding seasons and good on them. But to keep his service fee at $65k for this breeding season is taking those who supported the stallion for granted, given the Tavistocks' have done nothing of note the last 2 racing seasons.

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19 hours ago, Brando said:

TAVISTOCK is in desperate need of a Spring star in Australia before the first of his $65k crop go to auction at Karaka in 2019. Otherwise his progeny are going to crash the Karaka Premier Sales average downwards.

He has left nothing of note since Werther(1st Crop) or Tarzino and Tavago(2nd Crop).

The Tavistocks are no good at 2, and have done nothng of note at 3 the last 2 racing seasons. No serious Australian buyer/syndicator is going to pay a lot of money for a yearling that's not going to show their best until 4 or 5. The Aussies are NZ's biggest market for yearlings followed by Hong Kong.

Cambridge Stud have enjoyed the the success of Werther, Tarzino and Tavago for 2 breeding seasons and good on them. But to keep his service fee at $65k for this breeding season is taking those who supported the stallion for granted, given the Tavistocks' have done nothing of note the last 2 racing seasons.

I tend to agree with you, he is getting some Aus winners but he needs something decent to pop up this spring for sure.

See the run of Tavistock Abbey yesterday looks like he could be worth following.

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Couple of points to consider:

You cant sire Derby and Oaks winners every year...but as the progeny get older the likelihood of good Cups horses looms large...Tavistock has already produced a New Zealand Cup winner! I expect Gobstopper will be aimed at a Cup defence.

Tavistock has about 150 new season 3yos; I agree he's unlikely to produce precocious (2yo) speedsters.

But his older mares are winning races - Tomelilla, Galaxy Miss, Zanyetta etc

The fun starts soon with the 3yo colts and geldings.

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I for sure hope that one or more of his new season 3yos is a STAR in Australia this spring - for the sake of the Lindsays and for those breeders who supported Tavistock at his $65k fee. Because Australians don't take much notice of NZ form 😋🙄

 

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Speaking of stallions that need a horse , you'd have to say something by Ocean Park and Reliable Man is going to have to kick a goal this season or it would be difficult to justify their fees.

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10 hours ago, Huey said:

Speaking of stallions that need a horse , you'd have to say something by Ocean Park and Reliable Man is going to have to kick a goal this season or it would be difficult to justify their fees.

Absolutely... how many seasons have they kept spruiking Reliable Man...given they will need time...but I don’t see too many around...I see his fee is $17.5k...needs a top liner...quickly... but don’t worry, I’m sure Gerry will have a buy now pay in 60months special if the numbers don’t appear...

Ocean Park...who is spending their 30k on a service to OP this year...I’d love to know...how can that fee be justified...when you can go to Iffraaj for $5k less...

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