Gavin

One thing for sure Pete, my response would have substance and wouldn't be passive / aggressive fluff. This website has completely lost it's appeal for me as it morphing into another oxidation pond. There has been no robust debate. Just condescending National Party supporters who not only target our female PM with derogatory abuse, but they then attempt to justify it with their blinkers on while ridiculing anyone who has the audacity to defend the woman. Adios.

1. It is a minority Government - the Labour Party did not win the largest percentage votes of any party; 2. It appears Labour spent 9 years in Opposition sitting on their arses and have no policy instead we now have a plethora of committees and even stage managed conferences to develop policy. All under the guise of "reaching out", "engaging communities" and "inclusiveness." See it for what it is - the circumvention of democracy and the determination of government policy and action by committee which reports back to the politburo; 3. Unilateral policy making by Ardern without consultation of cabinet or her coalition so called "partners". There has been more than one example of this but the one that sticks in my mind is her decision to stop oil and gas exploration. That single decision may eventually force us to third world status. The lower income workers who diligently drive to and from work to help produce the goods we sell to the world won't be able to afford $3 a litre for petrol let alone $5. 4. Lastly the "first baby". For a start it isn't the first baby my own is first. I've always said if there is one thing that do in life it is her to keep my baby safe - nowadays that includes keeping her safe by respecting her privacy. Neve's mother has used the "first baby" as a political prop, has not defended her privacy, has paraded her on stage at the UN (albeit an empty one) and carted her across the world and all the attendant news media. What for? To further the cause of working mothers (real ones are struggling to pay for the fuel to get to work)? Or further her own cause? 1) There is absolutely nothing wrong on principal with a minority Government when the biggest party has enough coalition support parties to create a majority and form a Government. That's what we have now under MMP. We've had exactly the same setup with a National Government. The biggest difference here is that the party with the most votes is not part of the Government. Those with a vested interest blame Winston Peters for that but looking at the bigger picture tells a different story. If National had friends which is critical under MMP, they would still be Government. Why were their coalition support parties sent packing? The answer is because they propped up a Government growing numbers of Kiwi's no longer wanted. National's short sighted and underhanded tactics against Winston Peters orchestrated by Steven Joyce were an epic and extremely arrogant miscalculation. 2) Labour did sit on their arses for 9 years. You are correct but look deeper. Why? They were completely bereft of meaningful leadership. Being led by inadequate men was extremely unhelpful. Key's Government were gifted a free pass by the likes of Goff, Cunliffe and Little. They were leading Labour into political oblivion. Then, at the last fence, Andrew Little is confronted by the reality he'd been denying that hibernating Labour supporters had been seeing for the entire 30 months he led the party. A hospital pass to Ardern quickly followed. You can ridicule "inclusiveness" etc all you like but that is Ardern's style. That just couldn't be more obvious or more real. It's perplexing that the finger pointers can't see that, in fact they ridicule it. 3) Unilateral policy making? In the words of John McEnroe, "you can't be serious"? Dominant Governments such as the previous National Government made unilateral policy making an art form. There are examples of it everywhere that future generations of New Zealanders will be paying through the nose for until the second coming of Christ. Your example of stopping oil and gas exploration is absurd. If you think that is the off the cuff decision of one person, you are seriously deluded. The doom and gloom about this issue is off the charts. There is every chance this action will lead to enormous benefits for NZ and further afield. It must also be remembered that as has been the case over the last few decades, future employment etc will very likely come from areas that don't yet even exist. An open mind is essential in this area. As for the price of fuel. New Zealanders have been paying through the nose for fuel since Adam was a cowboy. Are we going to blame this on Ardern now? Something had to be done to unclog our motorways. National's answer was to do virtually nothing and just watch the situation worsen. How did that work in an alleged rock star economy? 4) You are in my opinion, 100% wrong about Ardern and her baby. Your screaming bias is on show. Ardern is clearly and unmistakably looking at the big picture. Strongly motivated by the rights and treatment of women and equality. There is considerable evidence of this. She's a breast feeding mother who just happens to be a Prime Minister. She's been a trail blazer and has done more for New Zealand and for women, especially working mothers in the last week than any other NZ women including Helen Clark has done in decades. Obviously, her baby needed to come with her on the US trip. Has she capitalized on that situation for the greater good? Absolutely yes. Should she be ashamed of that? Absolutely not.

Chief Stipe Administrators 541 3,657 post As you know I'm a proponent of free speech hence BOAY however can we keep the party political broadcasts to another part of the forum? E.g. Other stuff or The Vent. In any event you've nearly driven me to off load on a topic that I generally steer clear of on BOAY - the site is about sport and racing. But I will say this Arden's minority government is as dangerous to the principles of democracy as is Trumps to the great republic. Her Government IS a MINORITY government patched together with the looney greens and the reincarnation of a Maori Muldoon whose narcissistic ego is only matched by Trumps. As far as I'm concerned it is open season on Ardern for the fact of what she has done and is doing to democracy in this country. She has no principles but has glib shallow political slogans. There are numerous reasons why I detest her Government but here are a few: 1. It is a minority Government - the Labour Party did not win the largest percentage votes of any party; 2. It appears Labour spent 9 years in Opposition sitting on their arses and have no policy instead we now have a plethora of committees and even stage managed conferences to develop policy. All under the guise of "reaching out", "engaging communities" and "inclusiveness." See it for what it is - the circumvention of democracy and the determination of government policy and action by committee which reports back to the politburo; 3. Unilateral policy making by Ardern without consultation of cabinet or her coalition so called "partners". There has been more than one example of this but the one that sticks in my mind is her decision to stop oil and gas exploration. That single decision may eventually force us to third world status. The lower income workers who diligently drive to and from work to help produce the goods we sell to the world won't be able to afford $3 a litre for petrol let alone $5. 4. Lastly the "first baby". For a start it isn't the first baby my own is first. I've always said if there is one thing that do in life it is her to keep my baby safe - nowadays that includes keeping her safe by respecting her privacy. Neve's mother has used the "first baby" as a political prop, has not defended her privacy, has paraded her on stage at the UN (albeit an empty one) and carted her across the world and all the attendant news media. What for? To further the cause of working mothers (real ones are struggling to pay for the fuel to get to work)? Or further her own cause? Geez.....you should see when I really off load on stuff political! Invariably there is more than one way to see the same thing. Using very strong emotive words such as "detest" to describe the new Government says more about you than it does anything else. The justifications you put forward have to my eye very little or no merit. I don't appreciate your patronizing statement about "Party Political Broadcasts". National Party supporters can and do put up scathing and very personal / insulting derogatory abuse all over the internet all day every day. Of course none of it is motivated by bias or strong resentment at no longer being Government courtesy of MMP. For the record, I couldn't give a flying toss about the Labour Party. I don't defend them. I defend Ardern from the relentless personal attacks the brave souls riddle the internet with. Anyone who defends Ardern is described as being ignorant or a cult member. Clearly, attacking a woman is seen by a disappointing high number of Kiwis as fair play where as defending the same woman is not. I'm also a supporter of Winston Peters. Anyone who puts NZ first has my approval. I will put up a retort to the four affidavit like points in another message or this input will stretch to Africa.

Bro, I respect your call to walk away from a site you feel robust but respectful yarns are not possible but I ask you to reconsider. This site needs people with gonads and colour. You have both and I enjoy your input. Cheers, Gav.

Bloody poor show Pete. I left the oxidation pond several years ago as robust discussion was not welcomed. There was a narcissistic flea of a man on that site desperate for power over others who tried to bully and ridicule anyone who had the audacity to hold a different perspective to him. It actually put me off horse racing and online communication for about 18 months. This site does not need yes men / women unless of course it only wants sterile yarns. I'm no apologist for Labour or their cheerleader. I do however think Ardern is the bees knees. I have good reason for believing so. I'm not a typical red supporter. I'm university educated but have a lot of colour in my life. I generally don't vote as I subscribe to the ethos of Billy Connolly. "Don't vote, it only encourages them". No issue whatsoever with people who disagree with Ardern's politics but I do have issue with the open contempt and ridicule that anonymous misogynistic far quits routinely direct at her online. They think it's being astute and funny but they are neither. Most are gutless trolls who will happily target a female online. Worthy of contempt only. Right up the top of those I detest most are the cowards who feel it's fair play to talk down to others in a condescending manner because they don't share the same political perspective. If you confronted them offline most would have piss running down their leg as they tell you it's all been a big misunderstanding. I've had experience with such people. Since when is it ok to routinely butcher a woman's given name just to show what a true hero a man is? When is it ok to ridicule a ladies teeth ? There has been an incessant and cowardly campaign against Ardern from day one. If she was my wife, sister, daughter etc I would happily hunt down and confront the arseholes involved. Charlotte Dawson was a beautiful lady but was targeted by cowardly trolls. I hoped our society would have learned something from that tragic situation. The hospital pass Andrew Little gave Ardern several weeks out from the 2017 election should have resulted in Labour being thrashed at the polls but remarkably It took an underhanded National Party campaign to stop Labour having their nose in front on election day. National had no meaningful opposition since Helen Clark was Labours leader. A series of inadequate male leaders guaranteed that. What Ardern achieved in the election campaign was unprecedented in NZ politics. I'm absolutely convinced of two things about that. The first is there was no other person in NZ who could have achieved what Ardern did. The fact she did it going up against the extremely well oiled National Party machine desperate to retain power only increases the gravity of her achievement. Any person capable of that is more than capable of being our PM. Secondly, I feel many Kiwi's are just too bias and or too far king stupid to truly understand the enormity of what Ardern achieved. What sort of NZ do you want to leave behind for your children and grandchildren? One where disgraceful and extremely divisive abuse is routinely directed at our female PM? One where on the very day Ardern's grandmother passed away, three days from election day, hundreds of National Party trolls attacked her online with despicable abuse and accused her of being the nasty lowlife who would exploit her grandmothers death for votes? How about the sort of cowardly and obnoxious shitheels who celebrated online the death of Ardern's pet cat who was run over and killed outside her home? How about the mostly male input where Ardern's marital status is incessantly ridiculed and her very young daughter is bastardized in a desperate attempt to gain political traction? There is no end to the vile directed at Ardern and no depths the brave souls will sink to when attacking her. I'd like to see her given the 3 year electoral cycle to put her vision in place. If she fails, she will rightfully be sent packing in 2020. This bullshit from online superheroes every step of the way is chunder material.

Newcastle today. Race 1 horse 1 sums up the Governments performance over National. Preformance if your name is Brendon. Race 2 horse 5 at the same meeting sums up our PM. Race 3 horse 3 there beautifully describes yours truly. Race 5 horse 11 there is the National Party cry at Bwidges being their leader, Race 6 horse 6 is what we are all expressing here on BOAY. Race 7 horse 3 there is a very astute man. Race 8 horse 11 there is what National Party supporters have in copious amounts and will continue to have for many years to come. Hope you all back a few winners today boys. As long as you support our Government you will be backing a winner. Nice. Enjoy.

Hey Wally. Teachers made numerous protests to the previous Government regarding serious issues in many areas of the education system. Their compelling anecdotal evidence was treated with total contempt. People don't strike if they know the outcome will be more Government indifference. Exactly the same scenario with the health system. Nurses made dozens of submissions regarding woefully inadequate incomes and unsafe staffing levels to then health minister Jonathan Coleman who most involved in the health system described as NZ's worst ever health minister. He displayed his usual complete indifference. All of these workers knew well they would be pissing into the wind if they striked. The outcome would be more Government indifference while their patients and or students were let down. That all changed when a new Government took over that actually listens to and values them. Biggest mistake the teachers and the NZNO nurses union made was not to strike in the lead up to the 2017 election. No Government could ever afford to ignore such action at their most sensitive time. Politicians as a breed are highly motivated by power and self preservation. The boat was well and truly missed there. As for the housing situation. Supply and demand is huge. Domestic housing should never have been opened up to investors, especially offshore investors. Chinese buyers especially dominated the NZ market which is exactly why Governments around the world do their best to hide the actual numbers involved. They will happily push the 3% number despite it having as much credibility as a $6 banknote. I know many people who attended hundreds of Auckland house auctions over several years hoping to buy a family home. They had 0% hope of success. Every auction was dominated by Chinese buyers with very deep pockets. The only real competition these Chinese buyers had was from other Chinese buyers. House prices started to go through the roof. The immigration floodgates remained wide open. The outcome was only ever going to be a serious shortage of housing and unrealistic house prices. A crisis with all the connotations of that was encouraged. There are numerous investors who have added many houses to their investment portfolio who will happily leave their properties vacant and write the loss off via tax yet happily are spared any kind of capital gains tax. Investors in Hong Kong especially had the NZ domestic housing money tree and all it's huge advantages displayed to them up in lights on a daily basis. I witnessed it myself both times I was in Hong Kong. NZ was being sold as a country of rich mugs just waiting to be exploited and a Government that will help you achieve that. Treasonous for certain. The usual scenario is that the tea lady in the office ends up paying more tax than the investors.

Why do you, like so many National Party worshipers feel compelled to be condescending toward anyone who has the audacity to value people over $$ ? You accuse Government supporters of blindly strolling around like Mr Magoo to whats been unfolding in our beautiful country despite that ironically being the exact same thing National Party supporters have been doing since Key became PM in 2008. They were doing fine thanks very much so the rest of you can go fark yourselves. Never once have I read anywhere a National Party supporter expressing concern about a housing crisis created mainly by greed that prevented so many young NZ families especially from owning their own family home in their home town or the worsening state of our health system negatively impacting on so many. Nurses and teaches being routinely ignored while infrastructure became overwhelmed. The gap between the rich and poor reached a record diabolical new level. National's answer was to just deny there were serious issues despite the carnage being created for so many. NZ was being gifted to offshore investors in what is best described as a treasonous short sighted ethos. Our country was changing forever and those with their eyes open could see our children and their children would pay a very high price for the farcical and alleged rock star economy. National painted the letter box so it appeared all new, but meanwhile, the actual house in the background was going up in flames. Despite that situation being so overt, they couldn't due to a warped selfish ideology, acknowledge it. Along comes a female leader determined to restore a much healthier balance to NZ. Anyone who supports that is deemed to be part of a "cult". I think for myself thanks and follow no person or party with blind loyalty. Time you and your ilk got over the fact your time has been and gone. Young NZ is rejecting National's "them and us, conquer and divide". Our Government is inclusive. The previous was all about me me me and is incredibly divisive. Thankfully and mercifully thanks mostly to the very astute Winston Peters, National have been sent to Coventry. Have they learned anything? Absolutely not. Still as arrogant and divisive as ever. Still no hope of any coalition partners . Apart from the superb leadership of Ardern, we also have more great news. That being that National and their supporters actually believe that Simon Bridges is their answer. Hilarious. He's their version of David Cunliffe on steroids morphing into Andrew Little. Has as much hope of being PM as either of those inadequate leaders ever did. Hilarious. Please retain him as your new Messiah and the rest of NZ will continue enjoying the sunshine. Happy days.

It is Barry. I've made my perspective known in a thread I didn't start. Always makes me smile when National Party folk who were previously supremely confident they were 100% correct are confronted with the uncomfortable reality that they just might be completely wrong and start then looking for a parachute. Good fun.

Anyone who watched her speech today and are scathing of it, wouldn't know if their arse was on fire. They know nothing about public speaking, nothing about leadership and even less about sincerity. Look at the Dipton Double Dippers farcical speech on election night. Completely contrived. Reeked of insincerity. Was little more than the arrogance of National attempting to hoodwink and brainwash NZ into believing they had won the election. Hands raised in the air in the traditional celebratory victory style and even had the victory balloons drop from the ceiling. What a farking joke. The actual result was that National's coalition partners were gone and they now needed Winston Peters to get back into Government after attempting to wipe him off the political landscape. This was a virtual worst case scenario for National yet they attempted to sell it as a victory. As for English's non existent leadership and public speaking skills. Look how many times he has long sustained looks at his written speech. If he had been sincere, he would not have needed a contrived speech. He knew he couldn't just repeat the same boring narrative about strong stable Government bla bla bla and was brutally exposed. Despite that, his mostly male cheerleaders championed his woeful performance. Then look at Ardern today. Total sincerity and completely natural. The only people who are negative about it are the entitled and still sulking blue cheerleaders who are desperate to get traction against her. They have lost all sense of balance. Their time has been and is now mercifully, gone. We now have a real leader who believes homes are for housing people, not for increasing the investment portfolios of National Party supporters etc etc etc.

So every person who supports our Government just doesn't get it. Conversely, every person who supports National does get it. How convenient and what a coincidence. Anyone who agrees with you is correct and anyone who disagrees must therefore be incorrect. Again, what a complete shock. National were very "hands off" you say. A euphemism of course for deny and display indifference to the plight of everyone who's not a National Party voter and needs support. The familiar and divisive National Party catchcry of fark em back on the table. There is the undeniable stench of condescending arrogance all through your input. Ironically, that same stench is often apparent when National Party supporters are communicating online.

What you're suggesting Pete, amounts to tinkering with the system until it suits your chosen party. I agree that it's ironic that NZF had the power to decide which party would be Government. I do believe NZF took that role seriously. Had National been gifted the first bite of the cheery, it wouldn't be MMP.

I have some sympathy with National being shown the door after gaining more votes than any other party and it being NZF that showed them the door. This has caused considerable bitterness and resentment from those who feel they should be Government. Under MMP, having more votes than other parties is not enough. Coalitions are the name of the game and for good reason. Look what happened to National's coalition support parties. Gone! Why? If National were so bloody wonderful, why did NZ reject and send their support parties to Coventry? Mandates are grossly overrated. I would much rather have different coalition groups working together than having arrogant Governments forcing policy onto NZ regardless if that policy is bad for the country. What we have now is far healthier. As for Governments being decided by parties with a low % of the vote. That's just the way it is. If you don't like it, vote to return to FPP or whatever electoral system you prefer. Interesting to note that had that party with a low % of the vote chosen National in October, I'm certain you would have been very happy with the arrangement.

Never thought for a moment Andrew Little would do ok in the role. Good man and good politician but inadequate leader. Labour supporters were rightfully in hibernation when he was leader. Same scenario with Cunliffe and Goff. Bridges is in the same boat. NZ is not buying what he's selling and never will. I'm sure many within National are now quietly conceding that. . These "leaders" just don't connect with people in the way Key and Ardern do. The only way National can beat Ardern now is by also having a female leader. Amy Adams is as dull as ditch water but is one of their best hopes alongside Nikki Kaye who I believe is their best option at this time. That aside, if the don't have any junior coalition partners, National can whistle Dixie until the second coming of Jesus. Who would want to go into coalition with National? The only hope they have is for someone with very deep pockets who is in the mood to commit political suicide. The cat killer is out but his party seems like their only option which is just sad. Ms Ardern is way more than just our PM. She represents a significant baton change for all Kiwi's, especially the younger folk who are the countries future. There had to be another way of getting the job done that valued people over and above all else. Ardern is that change and it was well overdue. National did a great job of showing NZ how much it needed someone exactly like Ardern. In general terms, I can't stand politicians. They give me the shits. Ardern is the first politician who I embrace. Not because she's labour but because of who and what she is.

Bridges will see out Christmas as the blue leader hesi. The timing for him to be shown the door now is not right. These things tend to be cooked up over summer and resolved in February as was the case with Bill English. National are desperate to gain traction against Ardern and know Mr Bridges at 10% is not doing the job despite his incessant bleating and NZ road tour. There is 0% hope of him being the blue leader going into the 2020 election. As for Simon being a nice guy. National have some good folk in their team. I don't consider him to be one. I've seen nothing that would indicate he's a good / nice guy. Labour will be a hot fav to retain Government in 2020. Ardern will be PM for at least 9 years but likely to be even longer. The Nats will retain their good level of support but under MMP, that's not enough. They need friends and are further away from having any now than they ever have been. That penny won't drop for them any time soon as they still arrogantly believe they can govern alone. How well did that work for them in 2017?