Thomass Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 It's a conversation that'll be increasingly held....especially after the Melbourne Cup ...where so many riders flouted the whip rule... Its a bad look all round...and the young generation hates it...and they're the future When Mike de Koch says yes...it's a serious idea for Sth Africa While we're at it...what happened to the Tauranga Club's submission to NZTR "all whip violations should be subject to protest" yep Jack Milner: In an innovative move, Phumelela will be staging a race at Turffontein on Saturday in which jockeys will not be permitted to use whips. OCTOBER 28, 2018 The move to ban the use of whips in the sport is growing momentum in the UK and it has found a lot of support in South Africa. Horseracing is seen by many outsiders as a sport that encourages cruelty to animals. Modern whips are made from cushion and they do not hurt the horse if used correctly but it does make lot of noise as it makes contact. However, outsiders watching a race just see that horses get a solid beating from a jockey and that immediately gives the sport a bad image. The question one needs to ask is to what extent the whip encourages a horse to run faster? Interestingly, anybody who watched Race 7 at Turffontein on Saturday 20 October would seriously have reservations about whether it does. Warrior’s Rest and D’Arivee were fighting out that finish and as champion jockey Lyle Hewitson pulled his whip some 150m from the finishing post, it flew out of his hand, over his head and dropped on the turf. Demonstrating why he is the country’s champion, Hewitson showed no panic but jut rode his mount with his hands. It looked as if D’Arivee would pass him but Hewitson got Warrior’s Rest perfectly balanced and came back to win the race by a long head. In the UK, an organisation called Championship Horse Racing has been set up which is looking to repackage horseracing using Formula 1 racing as a model. They point out horseracing is the second largest spectator sport in Great Britain and, with a history dating back centuries, one of the longest established. It generates over £3.7 billion (R69.33 billion) for the British economy and major horseracing events such as Royal Ascot and Cheltenham Festival are important dates in the British and International sporting calendar. However, sponsorship participation is not at the same level as in other sports. Their aim is to distance the sport from the public perception that it’s a complicated, elitist recreation inextricably linked to gambling and provide a simple, accessible format that’s gripping, thrilling and unmissable. They want to present horseracing to an entirely new global audience and re-affirm its status as the high profile, much-loved sport it has always been. The use of the whip is one perception that needs to be dealt with. Saturday sees the running of the R1-million Peermont Emperors Charity Mile and Clyde Basel, on-course sales and marketing executive for Phumelela, views the meeting as an ideal opportunity to introduce whip-free racing to the public. “Being Charity Mile we want to show that we are willing to take a positive step forward for those who support a welfare approach to the role of animals in our lives,” he said. “As a responsible operator/regulator there is a view that the current rules and penalties around the use of the whip are simply not good enough and can be both improved and made clearer. “Obviously much research still needs to be done but this is a perfect trial for Charity Mile day with the newbies (celebrities and the like) all watching, and in particular all the horse-related charities who will welcome this concept with open arms.” Jockey Piere Strydom has been a keen exponent of the innovative move. “While the whips do not inflict pain on the horse, it still does a lot of damage to the image of the sport. “I feel this is a very positive move and I congratulate the operator for coming up with the concept,” said Strydom. Trainer Mike de Kock is another staunch supporter. “The first question we get from newcomers to the sport is ‘why do we whip horses’. It gives the sport a very poor image and I’ve been pushing his idea for months. “There are no negatives. It can only be positive for horseracing.” Views: 424 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Some wonder why this Industry can't progress... You only have to look at the comments from Wodney Heeslop and Cwis Can't see the Woods from the trees on channel suck up... ...to see we're in trouble "this whip criticism is pc gone mad...in our day..." Yes Chris...in your day people actually went along to the race days The Young gees of today hate any form of animal abuse...perceived or otherwise Its dinosaurs like you and Wodney that need to change...not the other way around.. ...if you want the industry to survive...wake up Dino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 If the whipping does not hurt then what is the point of it ? If it's not hurt then perhaps it is noise and if that is the case then surely the loquacious little riders can suffice -they normally have that much to say . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Haha love the LLR's! They may hurt if they're hit hard enough....welt marks left on when the Apprentice belted the he'll out of one a few months back...then there's Reece Then there's the added benefit if the non triers are bred out of the game...after not performing to a no/restricted whip contest... ...we get a whole lot more genuine triers who want to be there! win win 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Thomas -that is the most sensible post you have ever made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, Fred said: Thomas -that is the most sensible post you have ever made. Thomass has contributed MANY quality posts. Around 2% of all his posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 1 minute ago, mardigras said: Thomass has contributed MANY quality posts. Around 2% of all his posts. 2% is a very large number Mardi, I would have thought for him 0.2% was closer to the MANY category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, barryb said: 2% is a very large number Mardi, I would have thought for him 0.2% was closer to the MANY category. Yeah, but it's be nice to Thomass weekend. He's no doubt off sulking after humiliating himself excessively last week. So thought I'd boost him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, mardigras said: Yeah, but it's be nice to Thomass weekend. He's no doubt off sulking after humiliating himself excessively last week. So thought I'd boost him up. True & fair enough, but 2% is a massive exaggeration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 On 17/11/2018 at 8:13 PM, barryb said: True & fair enough, but 2% is a massive exaggeration. If you have 100 Whakachungas Bazz... ..and you have "many"...say 3....are you a cheap drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Thomass said: If you have 100 Whakachungas Bazz... ..and you have "many"...say 3....are you a cheap drunk? Who knows, but at least he wouldn't be an illiterate one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 So J Parkes...a known whip enforcer Starts getting into Irish Flame from the top of the straight....and didn't let up until the post 29 Times in all....got up by a nose And still the runner up couldn't protest What a f in joke Not only is it a shocking look for the industry....but there's no justice when one Jockey abides by the rules ...and the other doesn't Godber said "oh it's too hard" f off Goddy...if a clear case like that whipping lesson exists Its as clear cut as a b/sitting Stipe covering up for a Jockey mate 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 That was a dead set shocker by Nik Bakar on Total Excess Talk about appropriately named.. Ive just counted 19..and they were above shoulder and as hard as possible Not asbad as Parkes 29...but totally over the top for an Apprentice Probably a wee slap of a fine 3hundy..subbed by the syndicate no doubt Jammie and Sweenz thought it was hilarious post race yea na 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 So Bakar gets 12 days...sfa...a couple of weeks in the North...with all over racing must have got a boot in the arsss after though The very next race he didn't touch his mount And Godber says "our whip rules are farrrr better than Arstralia's" Farrrr coff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 And good on TE Akau issuing a tweet today...they always try to do the best in a situation We are very committed to good apprentice education and teaching - and between our team and people like NZTR master Noel Harris who is a wonderful influence - as well as the stewards’ advice - we believe this young man will learn, and keep developing his professional skills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Looked to me the horse was labelled urgent and the rider delivered the desired result. What's the name of the bloke that monitors betting patterns ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 13 hours ago, Fred said: Looked to me the horse was labelled urgent and the rider delivered the desired result. What's the name of the bloke that monitors betting patterns ? Absolutely....sometimes you need to read between the lines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 13 hours ago, Fred said: Looked to me the horse was labelled urgent and the rider delivered the desired result. What's the name of the bloke that monitors betting patterns ? It definitely looked to me as if he panicked when he found himself a length behind and possibly struggling...soon after 10 solid strikes it thought best to change its mind... ....when you say "delivered the desired result" are you agreeing with him breaking the rules to win at any cost? The betting analyst is Basil Payn...021 407 594...give him a ring perhaps and let us know Its hard to imagine any dodgy stuff with TA...it's a big syndicate who would have been all on...they were happy az! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 I don't know the rider but have been told he has a win at all costs attitude and is not troubled by suspensions. He certainly has a remarkable statistical record but that may be just the result of quality 'in house' mounts. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) The report makes very poor reading.... The RIU's contention that "we've got a better rule than Arstralia" is just a load of hogwash... Jockeys ride to the letter then over step far too often here...especially in Black Type events If connections had have been allowed to protest the instances of whip abuse would be way less...they simply wouldn't push as many boundaries Trudy Thornton won a G 2 3yo by a nose in February...using exactly the same over head action She should have lost that race in the room Using the available head-on and side-on films, Mr Balcombe identified TOTAL EXCESS in the one-out position as the field turned for home. Mr Bakar was observed to have used his whip 18 consecutive times, without the required respite until the 100 metres. Mr Balcombe described his strikes as forceful and also identified that Mr Bakar’s hand was above shoulder height whilst he delivered the forceful strikes. Mr Bakar identified that he used his whip in the manner that he did as he was unsure whether his horse was responding, and that he had been nervous as he was riding the favourite runner for the Te Akau stable. Mr Harris said that Mr Bakar was clearly riding aggressively and that the incident did not look good. He referred to a similar incident involving Apprentice Chowdhoory at Avondale (4 June 2018). He explained that Mr Bakar had been licensed for some time and that he did know about the five on and five off requirement when using the whip prior to the 100 metres. Mr Walsh concurred that the breach was unfortunate as both Apprentice Mentors had been trying to impress upon jockeys the importance of riding within the Rules, with regard to their whip use. Mr Goodwin submitted that the only redeeming feature of the breach was that this was Mr Bakar’s first breach of the rule. He explained that he had not seen a worse display of riding with the whip for many years. He did not believe the aggressive nature of the strikes was warranted and that an aggravating feature was the fact that Mr Bakar had used the whip with his arm above shoulder height. Mr Goodwin also noted that the horse went on to win the race, and may have gained an unfair advantage as a result. He referred to the precedent case of RIU v Chowdhoory (4 June 2018) in seeking a lengthy period of suspension of not less than 12 days. Mr Bakar asked the Committee to consider that he had been nervous at the time, and he had simply forgotten about things at the time and that he had had 23 rides for nine winners. Mr Walsh described Mr Bakar’s whip use as being “miles over” what was permitted, and agreed that a “decent” suspension was required. Reasons For Penalty: The Committee considered all of the submissions placed before it. It is clear that Mr Bakar used his whip on 18 occasions from the 400 metres until the 100 metres. This is well outside of the guidelines and reflects poorly on industry participants, with regard to animal welfare concerns. We have reviewed the Chowdhoory decision that has been identified by Mr Goodwin and Mr Harris and we agree that there are direct parallels with Mr Bakar’s offending. While Mr Chowdhoory used his whip on 22 occasions over the same distance, we form the view that when the number of strikes are well outside of the Guidelines, any suggested mitigating circumstances with regard to the number of strikes, are neutralised by the significant aggravating feature of the high number of strikes. In such a circumstance, riders must be aware that a period of suspension is inevitable. To simply apply the JCA Penalty Guide Starting Point of a $300 fine for a first offence would be unsatisfactory. While Mr Bakar has admitted the breach, in the face of the film evidence and the extent of the excessive nature of his whip use, that is inevitable. While he may have been nervous and wanted to perform well for connections, the responsibility for using his whip in an acceptable manner rests with him. In addition to the number of strikes, other aggravating features are the aggressive force by which the strikes were delivered, and that the strikes were made whilst Mr Bakar’s arm was above the shoulder. After considering all factors, we consider a period of suspension similar to that imposed in Chowdhoory is appropriate. Accordingly, Apprentice Bakar is suspended for 12 Riding Days. Edited November 26, 2018 by Thomass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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