TDN Podcast Q&A: John Gosden

[Wandering Eyes]

Not that anyone necessarily needed reminding, but John Gosden proved at this year’s Breeders’ Cup that not only is he one of the most gifted trainers in the sport, he is among the most durable. Way back in 1984, the then-33 year-old trainer won a race at the inaugural Breeders’ Cup with Royal Heroine at Hollywood Park. Fast forward to 2018, in the 35th Breeders’ Cup, and there was John Gosden back in the winner’s circle with the phenomenal filly Enable GB (Nathaniel {Ire}). This week, they announced that she would race in 2019, and last week, John Gosden was our guest on the Thoroughbred Daily News podcast, brought to you by Taylor Made. Excerpts from that podcast appear below.

TDN: John, coming in, you certainly knew no Arc winner had ever come back to win the GI Breeders’ Cup Turf. Did you ever worry that those two back-to-back races were too much for any horse to handle, Enable included?

JG: Obviously they come deep into the autumn, and normally you’ve probably had a great deal more racing than she had this year. We obviously had a well publicized injury we had to deal with back in May, which required surgery, but she came through all of that. It was more of a bursa problem at the back of the knee than it was ligament or bone as such. But she came through all of that. We got her back and ran her in a Grade III just to get her started back at Kempton, and she did that well. Our problem was then between that race and the Arc, she had a fever and she was uneasy for a week. So, I think my biggest problem was going to the Arc, running the filly not fully a hundred percent, and she burst away from the field, but she certainly was tiring the last eighth. And the jockey, whisked down and picked her up and got her over the line. And I suppose that took her longer to get over than would be normal, because if you run a horse in a mile-and-a half race at that class and they’re a little short of work due to the time she missed, it is going take her longer. And there’s not doubt that she took longer to get over that. But I was happy with her by the time she got on the plane to go to Kentucky.

TDN: As the race developed, Frankie Dettori made a strategic move that he could have been second guessed. Going into the final turn, he was literally nine or ten wide, losing a lot of ground, but he explained later that he was looking for the better footing of the course, which he apparently found. At the time, were you wondering, `what the heck is Frankie doing?’ and were you at some point worried about that decision?

JG: He didn’t have much choice. He was being attended by Hunting Horn (Ire) (Camelot {GB}) on his outside. And the speed on the inside was going to stop over that ground. The one thing he didn’t want to do was squeeze down closer towards the inside edge and have those horses come back in his face, and, if so, he’d be checked in behind them. He was very clear in his mind that, yes, he wanted to stay away from the fence, but second that he didn’t want to get in behind that speed, which was bound to be stopping. So, he elected to then come take a pull if you look at it very carefully. Coming to the last turn he took a pull and came back around Hunting Horn and came on his outside. So, he knew, although he sacrificed ground and momentum, he knew he would get a clear run. I don’t think he intended to come as wide as he came. But when Hunting Horn opened the door for Magical (Ire) (Galileo {Ire}), that pushed him even wider. I was pleased myself they didn’t wind up on the main track actually. I though that was the next stop.

TDN: Going back to what you said earlier about the problems you had and the surgery, at that point when she was injured and you had to tell the world that they wouldn’t be seeing her for quite some time back on the race course, could you ever have imagined that the end of the year would end up as successfully as it did? Three for three including winning two of the most prestigious turf races in the world?

JG: I suppose you don’t think like that as a trainer. You’re there and you think, if we get back to the races, “Well, that’ll be great in itself.” I suppose you always have faith with a filly like this. Not only does she have the ability, but she has enormous mental strength. I mean, she really enjoys her training. She loves breezing. She loves racing. So, it’s like you’ve got someone who’s up for the job. She’s going to give you everything, and rather like any athlete coming back from an injury, a lot of it is down to mental strength as well as the physical healing. And she manages to combine both. She was that kind of filly and to the extent that whatever you do with her she gives you a hundred percent every time. So, she did make that side of a lot easier than someone who didn’t have that mental fortitude.

TDN: Here in the U.S. there’s quite a debate about who should win the Eclipse Award for the Champion Turf Filly or Mare. In many years Enable would be a shoe-in even though she only raced here once, but you have very stiff competition in Sister Charlie (Ire) (Myboycharlie {Ire}) another Breeders’ Cup Winner. Would you like to weigh in on that debate and how do you feel about the possibility of Enable, who’s already won a Cartier Award, winning an Eclipse Award as well?

JG: I think I can see the argument on both sides. I mean, Enable comes from being a dual Arc winner and winning the Turf. On the other hand, I have a great appreciation a filly that is trained and raced throughout the year in America and to that extent the Eclipse Award is fully about American racing. There is a very strong argument for the filly that’s been based there, So, put it this way. I’m not the one who has to make that decision. Thank goodness.

TDN: You began your training career in California. Why did a Brit decided to start off halfway across the world?

JG: I had fallen in love with a girl, who’s my wife, and she was at Cambridge University, and she was a lawyer. But she was always in London and I was either in Ireland with Vincent O’Brien or I was in Newmarket or something and we could never be together. And the great thing about coming to America, we thought we’d come and have a look for a year. She could actually go working in Century City, Beverley Hills, which she did, and I could just drive to the track. So we could be together, and interestingly enough that was one of the main reasons I had worked for Gene Jacobs and others in New York on my school holidays, hot walking, traveling horses, so I had a lot of a feel for American racing. And the other factor is purely financial. To set up in Europe you need to rent a place, buy a place, I didn’t have the money for that. The great thing was I came to Santa Anita and was with Tommy Doyle and things, and I got three stalls in Willard Proctor’s barn. I don’t think Willard was too keen to see me.

TDN: You were an assistant trainer to Tommy Doyle, but it’s also known that you watched intently what Charlie Whittingham did and you are, perhaps, more well known for your association with Charlie even than your association with Tommy Doyle, because you had such a fondness for him and an appreciation for what a great trainer he was. What did you learn from him? What are the key lessons you learned from watching this great trainer train horses?

JG: When I started training, the easiest thing to do was get my little sets out and go out with him. I also knew where I belonged, right? Right in the back of his set. So, I used to walk out there five sets a day. Walk around with him, walk back. And what would you learn from Charlie? You would learn everything about the understanding of the horse, the animal. He was a lover of horses, dogs, people. His humor was one of the greatest. No one had a better sense of humor. Dry. He was tough, and yet he was very soft and kind underneath, but he really knew how. But when he knew he was in the right place with one, oh, boy. You’d better watch out.

TDN: Switching subjects now. You’re a staunch advocate of not allowing raceday medication. Matter of fact, you’ve been a fairly staunch advocate of not allowing raceday medication. It’s not an issue in Europe, but what are your thoughts about U.S. racing considering you have such a background here?

JG: Look, I can understand the therapeutic reasons for raceday medication, Lasix or anything. I do understand that profoundly, and the benefit it can give. I just begin to find it difficult to think of any other athletic sport where the athlete is receiving intravenous injection the day of the race. I find that a little hard to mentally get my head around. I know the tracks are demanding and I know there’s a requirement for it and and obviously with anti-inflammatories as well, I do understand it, and I understand the benefits of it, but it’s going to come a time when people are going to increasingly question it, you know?

To listen to this entire podcast, click here.

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