Thomass Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Dom Beirne inspired review of Handicapping in WA... Particularly like the idea of Maiden Handicap racing... as an extra incentive for encouraging punting...we used to have it https://www.rwwa.com.au/home/industry/thoroughbred-handicapping-306.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) All handicapping should be merit based, not formula based. The single race model of handicapping isn't one I have any faith in. I prefer a model of rating all the horses relative to each other, not relative to the horses they just raced against. Edited December 17, 2018 by mardigras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 53 minutes ago, mardigras said: All handicapping should be merit based, not formula based. The single race model of handicapping isn't one I have any faith in. I prefer a model of rating all the horses relative to each other, not relative to the horses they just raced against. Geez Mardi that will involve knowledge, skill and WORK! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 hours ago, mardigras said: All handicapping should be merit based, not formula based. The single race model of handicapping isn't one I have any faith in. I prefer a model of rating all the horses relative to each other, not relative to the horses they just raced against. So prey tell iron stain Htf would you do that? Fastest horses get rated immediately into WFA class...without going through the grades.... fair dinkum...email Dom and tell hm your thoughts on Handicapping...bet he'll be relly interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Thomass said: So prey tell iron stain Htf would you do that? Pretty easy, that's how BHA does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Thomass said: So prey tell iron stain Htf would you do that? Fastest horses get rated immediately into WFA class...without going through the grades.... fair dinkum...email Dom and tell hm your thoughts on Handicapping...bet he'll be relly interested Fair dinkum - under your system an R85 horse turns up in an Open race on a "Premier Day" in the North Island and wins. The average rating for the Open is R92 and R88 runs second but the horse gets hammered in terms of Rating Points. Should have raced in the South Island (easier win apparently) in an Open that has an average of R98 on a non "Premier Day" and got less points - supposedly! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 Picture this.. ...seeing as you can't read Far f in Lap blitzes his first maiden race and runs faster time than the WFA performers He doesn't get to run 'through the classes' but goes straight to the top class and top of the Handicap Thats "merit based" and idiots like grass and the wee C want it next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 You are correct Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Picture this.. ...seeing as you can't read Far f in Lap blitzes his first maiden race and runs faster time than the WFA performers He doesn't get to run 'through the classes' but goes straight to the top class and top of the Handicap Thats "merit based" and idiots like grass and the wee C want it next That's the whole point of a handicapping system isn't it? To equalise chance and not to gift good horses a few easy wins in non-competitive and unattractive betting races on the way through. If Far Lap is that good and doesn't like his re-handicap, he can go straight to WFA races. We are trying to increase wagering revenue here, not reduce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 42 minutes ago, curious said: That's the whole point of a handicapping system isn't it? To equalise chance and not to gift good horses a few easy wins in non-competitive and unattractive betting races on the way through. If Far Lap is that good and doesn't like his re-handicap, he can go straight to WFA races. We are trying to increase wagering revenue here, not reduce it. Little wonder racing here is the way it is. A decent handicapper can assess merit, and that is what they should do. Otherwise just get a basic computer if that's all you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, curious said: That's the whole point of a handicapping system isn't it? To equalise chance and not to gift good horses a few easy wins in non-competitive and unattractive betting races on the way through. If Far Lap is that good and doesn't like his re-handicap, he can go straight to WFA races. We are trying to increase wagering revenue here, not reduce it. Very few neddys can emulate Far fin Lap.... If they happen to insert a sterling Far Lap like performance one day.... ...and can't replicate that...they'll be stuck in high class for ages before they can get back.... Besides Trainers/Owners will go ballistic if you do as suggested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Thomass said: Very few neddys can emulate Far fin Lap.... If they happen to insert a sterling Far Lap like performance one day.... ...and can't replicate that...they'll be stuck in high class for ages before they can get back.... Besides Trainers/Owners will go ballistic if you do as suggested No they wouldn't. Where has it been stated that a handicapper would use solely time as their assessment of merit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 I said "performance" One could see the 'performance' then observe the time to compare the obviuos But you're MAGOO...so you'd use that solely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thomass said: I said "performance" One could see the 'performance' then observe the time to compare the obviuos But you're MAGOO...so you'd use that solely Well, if it meets the performance, it deserves the rating. Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, mardigras said: Well, if it meets the performance, it deserves the rating. Simple. Absolutely, and if subsequent performances make that look like a one off and a competent handicapper is assessing on merit then why would they be stuck in high class for ages? That's mad. And why would trainers/owners go ballistic? I thought they were the ones wanting higher stakes and for that they need races generating more revenue. That's the whole point of a handicap system. Otherwise just run all races at SW and see how many horses are going round a year later. Edited December 19, 2018 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share Posted December 23, 2018 It's such a waste of horse flesh as well.... Average maidens....constantly at Set Weights...against the likes of Blue Bloods 300k yearlings...with all of that royal blood...certainly doesn't guarantee success ...but let's face it....it goes a long way 5 start Maidens races should do it....Its the BHA system of giving a neddy a 'handicap' rating....by that time a handicapper gets an idea of capability.... 30% set weights...the rest Handicap should be the go Then you'd have far more horses getting through the grades earlier...than struggling for many starts...when they come up against a weak maiden...without the Blue bloods Besides....think of the punting aspect of more Handicap racing ...which is what it's all about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Thomass said: Besides....think of the punting aspect of more Handicap racing ...which is what it's all about OK. You got that finally. Just need to realise they need to be proper handicaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share Posted December 23, 2018 We mirror NSW's Handicapping...after NZTR employed their x The problem here is understaffing...they're still knocking points off neddys who're starting fresh, over unsuitable distances while caught wide... ...all reasons stated in the guide as "there will be no rating points lost" Theres a definite loss of "revenue" that could be generated by having maiden Handicaps..that's for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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