Special Agent Posted Wednesday at 09:17 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 09:17 PM Can anyone explain why Kids Got Gears received 14 points for running 4th of 6 runners? Now sitting with a rating of 60 in the maiden at Trentham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted Wednesday at 09:36 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 09:36 PM 26 minutes ago, Special Agent said: Can anyone explain why Kids Got Gears received 14 points for running 4th of 6 runners? Now sitting with a rating of 60 in the maiden at Trentham. Really good point. Actually looking at it again it is a Set Weight conditions race and the difference in Rating doesn't make a difference other than avoiding the ballot. But I thought the weights weren't set that high for the maximum weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted Wednesday at 09:39 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 09:39 PM From the Handicapping Policy: 4.6 Maiden Races All Maiden horses begin with a Rating of 45, unless they win a registered trial. Winners of a trial receive 2 points to take their initial rating to 47. Only the first trial win of a horse will apply to an increase in rating. When assessing trial performances for unraced maiden horses three years and older, two year old trial form is not taken into account. A Maiden horse will not receive a rating above 54 unless that horse performs meritoriously outside of Maiden company and in the opinion of the Handicapper a rating in excess of 54 is appropriate. A Maiden horse that is placed in a Group or Listed race will almost always (though there may be exceptions) receive a higher Rating than 54. As Maiden races are run at set weights, maiden horses are rated for balloting purposes only. Maiden horses that are rated above 54 and start in any rating, based Benchmark Handicap or a three year old Maiden in restricted age group race, will be weighted based on their rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted Wednesday at 09:43 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 09:43 PM b. Maiden Races As all Maiden races are conducted set weight races, Maiden horses are rated for balloting purposes only. Maiden horses that are rated above 53 and start in a Ratings race will be weighted based on their Rating. Maiden horses start with a Rating 45. Ratings are then adjusted based on race performances: • Winners of a Maiden race will be re-rated between 61-64 depending on the strength of the performance which will be determined by the Handicapper having regard to the advertised prizemoney for the race and the relative strength of the field. • Maiden horses who have placed in Group or Listed races may have a rating higher than 64 • Raceday 2 nd add 2 points – minimum 7 points, maximum 9 points • Raceday 3 rd add 1 point – minimum 6 points, maximum 9 points • Raceday 4 th minimum 5 points, if presently higher stays as is • Raceday 5th minimum 2 points – if presently higher stays as is • Raceday 6 th in one of a horse’s first 3 starts can accrue 1 point. This is not accumulative. Subsequent second placed performances will result in a horse being given an extra two rating points, subject to the condition that a horse having run second at its most recent start will not be rated below 52 or above 54. Subsequent third placed performances will result in a horse being given an extra one rating point, subject to the condition that a horse having run third at its most recent start will not be rated below 51 or above 54. Subsequent fourth or fifth placed performances will not result in any change to a horse’s rating subject to the condition that a horse having run fourth at its most recent start will not be rated below 50 and a horse having run fifth at its most recent start will not be rated below 47. Maiden horses will lose a point for an unplaced effort (sixth or worse) and after three unplaced performances will revert to 45, which is the minimum rating a horse can receive in New Zealand. Horses with a rating of 45 that finish sixth at any of their first three career race starts will be re-rated to 46. That Rating reverts to 45 after one start unless the horse again finishes sixth or better. Trial winners with a rating of 47 that finish sixth at any of their first three career race starts will remain on 47. That rating reverts to 45 after one start unless the horse again finishes sixth or better. Handicappers can apply discretion in maiden races in fields of (8) or less, for beaten margins. Unplaced runs in Group or Listed races are usually ignored for Maiden horse, however the handicapper may apply judgement or discretion in determining if a reduction in rating is warranted. Examples: Form Rating 0287………………………………… Rating 50 8202………………………………… Rating 53 4522………………………………… Rating 54 3908………………………………… Rating 45 796…………………………………. Rating 46 769……………………………………Rating 45 500………………………………… Rating 45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bid Posted Wednesday at 10:15 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 10:15 PM 57 minutes ago, Special Agent said: Can anyone explain why Kids Got Gears received 14 points for running 4th of 6 runners? Now sitting with a rating of 60 in the maiden at Trentham. Run 4th in an open 3yo race two starts ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted Wednesday at 10:50 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 10:50 PM 33 minutes ago, Bid said: Run 4th in an open 3yo race two starts ago. Where in the handicapping policy does it say it should get 14 points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted Thursday at 12:50 AM Share Posted Thursday at 12:50 AM 3 hours ago, Special Agent said: Can anyone explain why Kids Got Gears received 14 points for running 4th of 6 runners? Now sitting with a rating of 60 in the maiden at Trentham. It actually got 13 points for running 4th, beaten 1.5l behind horses rated 67-70. Seems about right to me, or do you think it should have got more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted Thursday at 01:00 AM Share Posted Thursday at 01:00 AM 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Where in the handicapping policy does it say it should get 14 points? It doesn't. It's at the handicappers discretion. As I said, seems about right to me, maybe on the generous side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted Thursday at 02:25 AM Share Posted Thursday at 02:25 AM 1 hour ago, curious said: It doesn't. It's at the handicappers discretion. As I said, seems about right to me, maybe on the generous side. I get the theory but you assume that the ratings he gave the 3 in front leading up to the race were correct. The four of them were well beaten in the Wellington Guineas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted Thursday at 02:53 AM Share Posted Thursday at 02:53 AM (edited) 28 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I get the theory but you assume that the ratings he gave the 3 in front leading up to the race were correct. The four of them were well beaten in the Wellington Guineas. Ballon D'ór finished 5th, 1 1/2l from the winner and retained its revised rating of 74. KGG actually beat the other two who both lost a point. Not saying the rating system is perfect but if it were mine, I wouldn't have any complaint about the 13 points that KGG got and presumably neither did its current connections. Edited Thursday at 02:54 AM by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted Thursday at 03:22 AM Share Posted Thursday at 03:22 AM 25 minutes ago, curious said: Ballon D'ór finished 5th, 1 1/2l from the winner and retained its revised rating of 74. KGG actually beat the other two who both lost a point. Not saying the rating system is perfect but if it were mine, I wouldn't have any complaint about the 13 points that KGG got and presumably neither did its current connections. I can see the logic but I think the "discretion" was misapplied. The 3 horses that finished in front of KGG had each won two races yet were only on as you say 67, 68 and 70. Arguably they should have been on more points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted Thursday at 03:36 AM Share Posted Thursday at 03:36 AM (edited) 14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I can see the logic but I think the "discretion" was misapplied. The 3 horses that finished in front of KGG had each won two races yet were only on as you say 67, 68 and 70. Arguably they should have been on more points. Which would have meant that KGG might have got more. Remember the handicapper is constrained by the ratings system as to the max and min number of points they give for maiden and ratings race wins. The critical question from the handicapping policy is " if the race was to be run again the next day, what would the weight turnaround be to equalize the chances of all horses." What do you think the handicapper has done wrong in establishing the ratings for those other 3? Edited Thursday at 03:37 AM by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted yesterday at 02:13 AM Author Share Posted yesterday at 02:13 AM It might have finished 4th in an open 3yo but, there were only 6 runners and the horse as a maiden on Saturday raced only okay. It hardly vindicated the rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted yesterday at 02:27 AM Share Posted yesterday at 02:27 AM 12 minutes ago, Special Agent said: It might have finished 4th in an open 3yo but, there were only 6 runners and the horse as a maiden on Saturday raced only okay. It hardly vindicated the rating. And it lost 6 points as a result. I don't think the number of runners in a race has or should have anything to do with a handicapper's evaluation of the performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.