Southland,Race riding

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Special Agent said:

And, even though the whipping thread has been sealed, we really are a part of a two faced industry, and it's definitely been mentioned multiple times.  We have rules about what you can and can't do with the Persuader and some are appalled with the policing of the rules here yet, it's absolutely fine to sell, watch and bet on horses in a jurisdiction where use of the whip seems to be at the jockeys' discretion with an "anything goes" attitude.

In my opinion and experience supports that opinion the industry participants at all levels focus on the wrong things.  For example isn't it more important to focus on the safety and consistency of tracks first rather than issues that are further down the line like counting whip strikes?  

When working in IT I used a process I learnt through an academic course that worked well.  That process in brief was to identify the constraints (bottlenecks) in a system and elevate that constraint to the number one focus.  The first step was to measure that part of the process accurately especially the variance from the mean - then assign all change resources to that constraint.  The first step in the change proces was to remove the variance (make the process outputs consistent) and once that was done raise the mean.  THEN only then once that constraint was eliminated focus on the elevate the next constraint.

As you know for a very long time I've been advocating the focus of all the industry resources on fixing the tracks - making them more consistent, safer and fairer.  If we did that you'd see an improvement in lots of other areas e.g. race riding tactics.  You'd also see an improvement in revenue and a rise in the optimism of owners and trainers.

The same should apply to rule enforcement.  Focus on those rules that affect horse and Jockey safety.  Whip strike counting and placement is a distraction that as you point out some major jurisdictions have less emphasis on.  

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

 As you know for a very long time I've been advocating the focus of all the industry resources on fixing the tracks - making them more consistent, safer and fairer.  If we did that you'd see an improvement in lots of other areas e.g. race riding tactics.  You'd also see an improvement in revenue and a rise in the optimism of owners and trainers.

Don't think many would disagree with that but it's one thing recognising it as a bottle neck and another, NZTR doing anything about it. Messara clearly saw it as a problem in 2018 and recommended that over 6 years, through the 25/26 season, we rationalise to 28 tracks and spend $190m upgrading infrastructure at those remaining 28. As far as I can see all that has happened 6 years later is they have hired a consulting group to come up with yet another venue plan.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, curious said:

Don't think many would disagree with that but it's one thing recognising it as a bottle neck and another, NZTR doing anything about it. Messara clearly saw it as a problem in 2018 and recommended that over 6 years, through the 25/26 season, we rationalise to 28 tracks and spend $190m upgrading infrastructure at those remaining 28. As far as I can see all that has happened 6 years later is they have hired a consulting group to come up with yet another venue plan.

The plan was derailed by self-interested Clubs aided and abetted by a few loud mouth stirrers.   Coupled with that and a lack of strong charismatic leadership it all turned to shyte.  Now everyone is entrenched and the problems are not fixed and if anything are getting worse.  Reinforcing that are half arsed renovations constrained by a lack of capital and expertise.  Even those that had the capital didn't get it right and are now believing their own propaganda e.g. Ellerslie.  The "iconic shape" justification is hilarious!  

[Special Agent]

2 hours ago, curious said:

rationalise to 28 tracks and spend $190m upgrading infrastructure at those remaining 28. 

That's not even $7million per track.  That might have been a lot of money once but, I don't believe it's a large amount to upgrade much in 2026.

Where does the money come from to maintain the venues going forward?  Assets can only be sold once.

I think it's short sighted.

[Special Agent]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

The plan was derailed by self-interested Clubs aided and abetted by a few loud mouth stirrers.   Coupled with that and a lack of strong charismatic leadership it all turned to shyte.  Now everyone is entrenched and the problems are not fixed and if anything are getting worse.  Reinforcing that are half arsed renovations constrained by a lack of capital and expertise.  Even those that had the capital didn't get it right and are now believing their own propaganda e.g. Ellerslie.  The "iconic shape" justification is hilarious!  

Lack of strong charismatic leadership ...  you got that right!  Have you noticed how the most useless people at anything have such tickets on themselves?  The best people seem to be the ones whom no one even realises the great work they do.

Lack of capital and expertise  ...  one is not much chop without the other.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Special Agent said:

Where does the money come from to maintain the venues going forward?  Assets can only be sold once.

There's the conundrum.  The assets aren't earning enough to maintain themselves now.  We are rapidly heading towards a scenario of "do you want 25 racecourses or none"?

All well and good sounding altruristic saying that "the assets should go to the community that built them" but that isn't the case.  They are racing assets.

[Special Agent]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

All well and good sounding altruristic saying that "the assets should go to the community that built them" but that isn't the case.  They are racing assets.

I think we are looking at different situations across the country e.g. Avondale vs Levin.  First there is the actual (not projected) value.  Then look at where they are situated.  Finally look at the value of each to the industry.  Someone said earlier about comparing apples with apples, case in point.

[Thomass]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

In my opinion and experience supports that opinion the industry participants at all levels focus on the wrong things.  For example isn't it more important to focus on the safety and consistency of tracks first rather than issues that are further down the line like counting whip strikes?  

When working in IT I used a process I learnt through an academic course that worked well.  That process in brief was to identify the constraints (bottlenecks) in a system and elevate that constraint to the number one focus.  The first step was to measure that part of the process accurately especially the variance from the mean - then assign all change resources to that constraint.  The first step in the change proces was to remove the variance (make the process outputs consistent) and once that was done raise the mean.  THEN only then once that constraint was eliminated focus on the elevate the next constraint.

As you know for a very long time I've been advocating the focus of all the industry resources on fixing the tracks - making them more consistent, safer and fairer.  If we did that you'd see an improvement in lots of other areas e.g. race riding tactics.  You'd also see an improvement in revenue and a rise in the optimism of owners and trainers.

The same should apply to rule enforcement.  Focus on those rules that affect horse and Jockey safety.  Whip strike counting and placement is a distraction that as you point out some major jurisdictions have less emphasis on.  

Ridiculous.... building safe tracks are the remit of NZTR and whip abuse is the remit of RIB 

RIB cant even see or count....Magoo does dyscalculia

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Special Agent said:

Lack of strong charismatic leadership ...  you got that right!  Have you noticed how the most useless people at anything have such tickets on themselves?  The best people seem to be the ones whom no one even realises the great work they do.

Lack of capital and expertise  ...  one is not much chop without the other.

I think you are missing the point.  The Messara plan needed to be sold (still does) and sold hard.  There wasn't enough hard reality talking particularly around the finances of Clubs.

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Ridiculous.... building safe tracks are the remit of NZTR and whip abuse is the remit of RIB

Wrong again.  In the first instance it is the responsibility of Clubs to provide safe tracks and to maintain them.  Obviously under the current structure NZTR can only advise.

As for the Whip rules - NZTR sets those rules.  The RIB enforce them and they should be doing more as the QA arm of the industry enforcing raceday protocols e.g. rating tracks properly and making sure horses gallop on them prior to the first race etc.

[curious]

25 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Ridiculous.... building safe tracks are the remit of NZTR and whip abuse is the remit of RIB 

RIB cant even see or count....Magoo does dyscalculia

Don't agree. The whip rules and ensuring that they are enforced is the remit of NZTR as with all other rules.

[curious]

26 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Wrong again.  In the first instance it is the responsibility of Clubs to provide safe tracks and to maintain them.  Obviously under the current structure NZTR can only advise.

It may be the clubs responsibility to provide them, but under bulk funding, it's NZTR's responsibility to fund that.

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, curious said:

It may be the clubs responsibility to provide them, but under bulk funding, it's NZTR's responsibility to fund that.

Is it?  If it is then that is a fundamental issue.  Unless a Club has alternative revenue streams then it is impossible for them to maintain their core racing assets.

[curious]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Is it?  If it is then that is a fundamental issue.  Unless a Club has alternative revenue streams then it is impossible for them to maintain their core racing assets.

Exactly.

[Special Agent]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I think you are missing the point.  The Messara plan needed to be sold (still does) and sold hard.  There wasn't enough hard reality talking particularly around the finances of Clubs.

We are onto Project Stamina now.  As the emails to participants today show we all have the opportunity to be involved and make comment.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Special Agent said:

We are onto Project Stamina now.  As the emails to participants today show we all have the opportunity to be involved and make comment.

Yes and that is disappointing.  If I was Ballesty I would have come out hard and strong and told the hard cold facts and then presented a plan.  No need to go through the process AGAIN.

@Special Agent I know you are really close to the Levin Racing Club but you are selling the silver and bludging off Otaki to keep going,  Is that what you really want?

[curious]

55 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

@Special Agent I know you are really close to the Levin Racing Club but you are selling the silver and bludging off Otaki to keep going,  Is that what you really want?

What are you talking about? Isn't Levin one of the clubs that complied with the consolidation plan and chose to race at another track? And that was long before Messara.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yes and that is disappointing.  If I was Ballesty I would have come out hard and strong and told the hard cold facts and then presented a plan.  No need to go through the process AGAIN.

Wouldn't that be just repeating the same mistake they made previously? The leadership completely failed to build consensus in support of the plan. If they take the same top down dictatorial approach again, they will end up in the same shit hole, though even if they don't, I fail to see how they can dig out of the one they are in.

A six month delay in getting the project under way is not a good start imo.

Edited December 15 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

24 minutes ago, curious said:

Wouldn't that be just repeating the same mistake they made previously? The leadership completely failed to build consensus in support of the plan. If they take the same top down dictatorial approach again, they will end up in the same shit hole, though even if they don't, I fail to see how they can dig out of the one they are in.

A six month delay in getting the project under way is not a good start imo.

You miss the point I made.  None of them have spelt out the financial reality.  None of them have put the numbers in their face and said what do you want?  A long slow death or racing to continue?

[curious]

29 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You miss the point I made.  None of them have spelt out the financial reality.  None of them have put the numbers in their face and said what do you want?  A long slow death or racing to continue?

Maybe not, but they certainly haven't spelt out the financial reality of what they are proposing leading to any different than the former result.

Edited December 15 by curious

[muzenza365]

On 14/12/2025 at 8:38 AM, muzenza365 said:

You wonder why people don't like having a punt down South. The course was presented in great order. The weather played its part, the crowd turned up, so why was the Riding of such a low standard? 

A total of 6 riders were given suspensions: 5 National Days and 1 rider got 6 National Days.

One charge I believe should have been upgraded to Dangerous Riding and that was Kauri, I had an investment in Blue Goddess and was given a nice run until Kauri decided that he had been 3 wide long enough and pulled the left handlebar down and wiped Blue Goddess out ,she dipped with the jockey almost being dislodged, this was shit that i did years ago and like i was handed with the applicable rule.

Now this horse was wiped out of the race, so the owner has float and training fees to get the horse to the races.The punters who made it a favourite had thrown their money down the drain.Punters can only take so much rubbish.

Now this 5 National Day suspension is rubbish.Kauri gets 5 National Days included Gore,Ashburton and Taupo,i don't believe he would be going to 2, maybe 3 meetings, so should he not advise what Trainers he was going to ride for and get supporting evidence that this fact and if incorrect charge the Trainer and Jockey, just seems a rort to me and look at the SI based jockeys and they fall into this bullshit as well.It is window dressing at best, attempting to show strength, but in fact it is WEAKNESS,being shown by both the Stewards and the RIU and if that what the rule says, change the rule to show real strength and Integrity.

Now on a positive note, a rider who I believe is underrated, Corey Campbell, was on Trackside Radio and went through his rides and he labeled Our Approval as his best, even though after the Blue Goddess debacle, i was not going back to Southland to punt when you have Aussie underway, but as he is a rider i rate i backed it along with 3 punting mates got plenty, and he rode it like a professonial and gave it the PERFECT run.

 

 

So I followed my money, and thank you for $9 today, but listening to the commentator just before the race, he said it never got balanced.Let me tell you  it is hard to get balanced when a jockey who had been posted 3 wide decides that was enough and pulls the left rein and Blue Goddess goes from 1x1 position to having 2 horses behind and Amber Riddell all but gets dislodged, and the rider gets 5 days suspension, and in reality, it is 3 days.

This piss me off when at this time of year, when there are races every day, can someone do the form correctly so the industry doesn't lose punters.

 

[Special Agent]

On 12/15/2025 at 3:03 PM, Chief Stipe said:

I think you are missing the point.  The Messara plan needed to be sold (still does) and sold hard.  There wasn't enough hard reality talking particularly around the finances of Clubs.

Remind me what Messara's recommendation for Levin was.

[curious]

11 hours ago, Special Agent said:

Remind me what Messara's recommendation for Levin was.

Throughout this period, we assume that Foxton, Levin and Opaki continue as
training only venues.

[curious]

7 minutes ago, curious said:

Throughout this period, we assume that Foxton, Levin and Opaki continue as
training only venues.

And Levin is not mentioned in the 2024 venue plan.