Thomass Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Yea na, Thats what the experts said though... ...and to be frank you could forgive them with 6M of fresh ground.. Hey you suits...just give Punters the entire pen. readings across the straight and... LET PUNTERS DECIDE what they want to do with them ffs You know, the ones who fund the industry...and who shouldn't be treated so shabbily ...like f in MUSHROOMS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Do you ever get sick of repeating yourself ad infinitum? Clearly not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 4, 2018 Author Share Posted June 4, 2018 Rod Hill!! Thought we'd got Rid? Anyway...the answer is a big fat NO Pitty wrote an article in the Informant about the need to produce these readings for the punter...and he's right of course.. If Punters see Jockeys using their own 'sticks' to find the best ground... ...it goes without saying PUNTERS should have the same information doesn't it? You know, the the poor long suffering f'ers who keep the game going.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxie Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thomass said: Rod Hill!! Thought we'd got Rid? Anyway...the answer is a big fat NO Pitty wrote an article in the Informant about the need to produce these readings for the punter...and he's right of course.. If Punters see Jockeys using their own 'sticks' to find the best ground... ...it goes without saying PUNTERS should have the same information doesn't it? You know, the the poor long suffering f'ers who keep the game going.. So how do you get the message to the jockey on the horse you have punted on, who hasn't walked the track? In any event the key is consistency. Also they should be able to give a correct reading BEFORE the first race rather than changing the track rating drastically after the first or second race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 4, 2018 Author Share Posted June 4, 2018 It's about being professional I guess... ...the Apprentices get the free advice of Noel Harris...a good example Jazz Fawcett walked the Puke track and "found the fast lane" Now NZTR employ Harris...just get his report each day and insert it on the NZTR website as part of the track description for the day ...how easy is that?? Part of the problem is inconsistent surfaces...some readings could be quite different to other sections... ...if they're taking readings at the Max. width of 4M....when they're using the 6M and further out strip ...just how inccurate are the 'official' descriptions then? Yes the likes of HB gallop horses on race morning to get the official description more accurate...but that doesn't get reported Its a total lack of punting transparency that's the major concern... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, Thomass said: Rod Hill!! Thought we'd got Rid? Anyway...the answer is a big fat NO Pitty wrote an article in the Informant about the need to produce these readings for the punter...and he's right of course.. If Punters see Jockeys using their own 'sticks' to find the best ground... ...it goes without saying PUNTERS should have the same information doesn't it? You know, the the poor long suffering f'ers who keep the game going.. I quite agree the punters should have the info. But your persistence with saying so is unlikely to achieve that. They'd be more like to not, just because of your inability to understand human behaviour, let alone animal behaviour. If you haven't worked it out by now, I'd suggest they think you are nothing more than a pain and therefore the more you write on a topic, the less they care about acting on it. As useful or otherwise that the info might be, it isn't likely to change the fortunes of the NZ racing industry. I have been known to have the odd bet and I ignore penetrometer readings. I take the blinkers off and see for myself, rather than be spoon fed something that may or may not tell you much useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 Good on you for finding your niche tusitala... ...and you agree Punters should have this information... ...so nothing more needs to be said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, Thomass said: ...so nothing more needs to be said Exactly. Finally you understand. It might have helped if you had understood 100 odd posts ago on the topic on various sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 I understand you're clueless when it comes to the nuances of Kiwi racing let alone cop the f on... ...numerous industry stakeholders have come out in support of increased track information...so I'm not the only pain in the ass to the ignorant suits...who don't seriously punt.. Pitman, Dillon, FORMPRO, Sweeney, Coppins have all publicly criticised the lack of track transparency...from the old HOLDING description to giving Punters readings the track manager has just taken...to H 11 covering everything from 11 to 20... ...and like the Whanganui track showing the inside to be off within the 'fresh' ground of 6 M... But apparently tusitalas like yourself don't need to spot early overs on the early book...you're going to wait until they start racing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Thomass said: But apparently tusitalas like yourself don't need to spot early overs on the early book...you're going to wait until they start racing How can you know what's overs until you know the track conditions? Guess? Edited June 5, 2018 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, Thomass said: I understand you're clueless when it comes to the nuances of Kiwi racing let alone cop the f on... ...numerous industry stakeholders have come out in support of increased track information...so I'm not the only pain in the ass to the ignorant suits...who don't seriously punt.. Pitman, Dillon, FORMPRO, Sweeney, Coppins have all publicly criticised the lack of track transparency...from the old HOLDING description to giving Punters readings the track manager has just taken...to H 11 covering everything from 11 to 20... ...and like the Whanganui track showing the inside to be off within the 'fresh' ground of 6 M... But apparently tusitalas like yourself don't need to spot early overs on the early book...you're going to wait until they start racing Again, you miss the point. Saying it once or twice is Ok. Repeating the same thing over and over as if you think that will help, just shows you don't understand people very well. You'd do well to stfu and let those with some credibility mention it occassionally. You aren't helping. Let's not forget the myriad of things you have pushed for, and none of them seem to have curtailed the downward spiral of NZ racing. And none of them have helped your punting. As for waiting til racing starts. Sure do. I generally don't bet on early races (outside of having a small interest for fun when at the track). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 27 minutes ago, curious said: How can you know what's overs until you know the track conditions? Guess? There's no doubt punting on our winter tracks is largely a guessing game... You can pretty much rely on a track like Avondale at the moment though.. They raced on a fresh strip of 6 M on Monday...and that was the place to be all day At the previous meeting they were coming down the outside..like the old days The suits destroy Punters confidence however.. ...when Whanganui races on 6M of fresh ground....wont publish the entire straight readings and across the width...not to just the 4M which we get at present...doh ...and expect Punters to know the 6M is off from the get go...even though Trackside 'experts' like Tan and Rodley have rightly assumed the rail should be the place to be...and inside draws...but it sure as hell ain't ...does nothing to encourage punting here... Its all about punter confidence in the product... ...and investing on a runner with an inside draw when the rail's off is definitely not overs...which we would have known if the readings across the width of the straight were delivered to Punters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, Thomass said: ...and investing on a runner with an inside draw when the rail's off is definitely not overs...which we would have known if the readings across the width of the straight were delivered to Punters Impossible to say I would have thought. Since overs relates to chance versus odds. If they had zero chance, then overs would be supplied by laying them. If they had greater than zero chance, overs would be a price exceeding the chance component. Simple really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, mardigras said: Impossible to say I would have thought. Since overs relates to chance versus odds. If they had zero chance, then overs would be supplied by laying them. If they had greater than zero chance, overs would be a price exceeding the chance component. Simple really. Wtf...speaking of pain in the asses... You haven't improved your cop the f on at all have you? I'll repeat this verrrry slowly...and only say it once...nes pa? If a punter thinks they've got overs...and the experts and oneself assume the 'fresh ground is the go...and the neddy's drawn perfectly and ticks all one's boxes for value...and it's part of your 'niche' strategy for success and riches... ...but turns out the rail is a death trap and slower down there... ...then it's not overs is it?? You're right...Simple az Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, Thomass said: Wtf...speaking of pain in the asses... You haven't improved your cop the f on at all have you? I'll repeat this verrrry slowly...and only say it once...nes pa? If a punter thinks they've got overs...and the experts and oneself assume the 'fresh ground is the go...and the neddy's drawn perfectly and ticks all one's boxes for value...and it's part of your 'niche' strategy for success and riches... ...but turns out the rail is a death trap and slower down there... ...then it's not overs is it?? You're right...Simple az If the punter thinks they have got overs, then I sure as hell hope they don't think they've got overs based on thinking something about the state of the track that is 100% inaccurate. Butif you bet like that, it does explain why you struggle with punting. Too impatient for one thing. Who bets like that. You? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 Ok let me help you...because I feel for you and my empathy has grown since you self banned yourself from Chat Assuming the track is even across the width and we're racing in lanes.. Just like the straight six at Flem... And where they provide a reading across the width...both rail and outside...thanks What if they didn't like here? ...and find post race the rail is 3L slower...if we'd known that before the race... ...would you say the 'overs' horse was still value and ignored the reading...or would you have adjusted your investment accordingly?? Answers on the back of a postage stamp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, Thomass said: Ok let me help you...because I feel for you and my empathy has grown since you self banned yourself from Chat Sure did. And never posted again. Mostly due to dealing with ignorant people like you. I can see the same thing happening here since you've arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxie Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, Thomass said: Ok let me help you...because I feel for you and my empathy has grown since you self banned yourself from Chat Assuming the track is even across the width and we're racing in lanes.. Just like the straight six at Flem... And where they provide a reading across the width...both rail and outside...thanks What if they didn't like here? ...and find post race the rail is 3L slower...if we'd known that before the race... ...would you say the 'overs' horse was still value and ignored the reading...or would you have adjusted your investment accordingly?? Answers on the back of a postage stamp... So from a practical perspective how will this work? If the running lane for a horse is 2m then are you expecting penetrometer readings for every 2m across the track from the top of the straight to the finish line? How would you portray this to punters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Boxie said: So from a practical perspective how will this work? If the running lane for a horse is 2m then are you expecting penetrometer readings for every 2m across the track from the top of the straight to the finish line? How would you portray this to punters? The readings are taken at 1.5, 3 and 4.5M at the moment...at 100M sections up the straight...further around other parts ...so obviously those horses racing at 6M plus on Saturday were racing on something that's wasn't accurately portrayed... Id suggest every 3/4M across the width which would add another 8-10 readings in the straight... ..it would take the poor trackman another 10 minutes to do... ...but spades more information for the currently mushroomed punter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) Just now, Thomass said: Just like the straight six at Flem... ...and find post race the rail is 3L slower...if we'd known that before the race... ...would you say the 'overs' horse was still value and ignored the reading...or would you have adjusted your investment accordingly? Makes no difference. I'd expect if the information was known as you suggest, the jockey would put the horse in the right place. If the information is not known, then I wouldn't be betting on the race. As far as Flemington is concerned, if you think the penetrometer is what decides the faster side, then you haven't bet there much. Wind speed and direction are far greater factors. And if penetrometer was the factor, why would any race split even though the readings outside versus in are basically always different. Are jockeys thick and don't realise what you've been going on about is so important that going to the wrong side has just cost them the race. Edited June 6, 2018 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 As I thought...you're CLUELESS...again Of course...you said there was "nothing wrong with the Eagle Farm track"...didnt you? If you think a Jockey...drawn one on the flat side...is going to pull back and over to the Grandstand side....when 6 other horses on his outer are dictating his every move... ...you have no idea...again The only thing you got correct is that Punters won't bet if they don't have the correct information... ...and early Whanganui bettors got sold a pup when told the fresh 6M would be the place to be..."probably all day"...and it wasn't from the get go... When a simple straight penetrometer reading across the width, would have told them something entirely different... ...or a Senior Jockey/Noel Harris track report...telling Punters where they think the fast lane will possibly be... Instead of a guessing game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) So what? It's pretty simple I would have thought. Why would you bet on a track like that? I wouldn't. Edited June 6, 2018 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, curious said: So what? It's pretty simple I would have thought. Why would you bet on a track like that? I wouldn't. So what what?? It was a good winter track...SOFT... 6 M of fresh ground and "the rails the place to be"...Tan and Rodley... ...those who want to bet...e.g. They have a horse racing...who knew that happens? And genuine Kiwi Thoroughbred Punters wanting to bet...instead of the Harness horror show of endless short favourites... NZ Punters deserve and should expect ACCURATE information shouldn't they? Not the b/s they're getting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Thomass said: And genuine Kiwi Thoroughbred Punters wanting to bet...instead of the Harness horror show of endless short favourites... We agree on something Thomas, that harness racing is a farce. Its crap for punters & its terribly boring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, barryb said: We agree on something Thomas, that harness racing is a farce. Its crap for punters & its terribly boring. Oh yep So you don't agree, Punters should have known before the first, that the rail was off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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