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Bit Of A Yarn

The Chris Waller show...on Lasix


Thomass

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Oh moi gawd...I thought that was some comedy show for a while...he was reading off an auto cue attached to her chest ffs

Without disclosure notes...Im picking he's a paid servant of the Lasix Drug Company Inc.

The truth is the Thoroughbred breed has been weakened by the continual use of this disgraceful drug...thanks America...

If Northern Dancer hadn't have been given Lasix to win the Derby he wouldnt have gone on to spread his woeful bleeding genes 

And then we'd have a stronger more 'resilient to bleeding' breed

Its like the Vagina...and why modern day Thoroughbred mares virtually all need caslicks...

If we'd selected for the perfect vagina, instead of the 'speed' vag... we wouldn't be needing vaginas sewn up all over the place

And so it's is with EIPH's...Lasix has done away with natural selection..

Theyd have been rooted out long ago

Waller should do the breed a favour by rooting them all out...just stop dishing out drugs now Chris

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It's abundantly clear why you struggle with punting.

You look at class of race because you think that is performance related.

And with HK, you look at lasix and associate that with HK racing success. It's not lasix, it's the transparency of all things in HK. 

You look at one thing and think that is the 'all'. Such as generally higher grade races having better performances means they 'all' do.

It's why you fail. You don't understand the difference.

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And it's abundantly clear to even PILLOCKS that you're the f in KING of

What don't you understand about TOTAL DISCLOSURE??

Pillock??

Its all ENCOMPASSING...it includes LASIX...the HK PUNTERS said f in NO

This has got to be a wind up

Nobody could be this stupid..

Maybe the KING OF PILLOCKS could be though?

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Wtf are you talking about?

I said Punters should know a horse on drugs...losing that much weight in training...and not knowing about it being on Lasix...

...should know about it...

Its called TRANSPARENCY...and Punters require that for the Integrity of the sport

Nothing could be simpler...apart from you

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45 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Wtf are you talking about?

I said Punters should know a horse on drugs...losing that much weight in training...and not knowing about it being on Lasix...

...should know about it...

Its called TRANSPARENCY...and Punters require that for the Integrity of the sport

Nothing could be simpler...apart from you

Tank.  The only weight it loses during training while on a diuretic is water.  The horse then puts that weight quickly back on by having a drink!  Any trainer who sends a horse to the races dehydrated is not going to get maximum performance.

Now knowing the weight of a horse is a different matter.  The Hong Kong jurisdiction records training weights and race day weights.  That may or may not be useful to determining the likely performance of a horse.

 

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The point being...

...Punters have a right to know what's on Lasix...minus 20lbs...and what's not to compare training times and how fit they are

Besides you're wrong

Researchers also discovered that horses do not apparently feel the need to drink more water after having been treated with Lasix (regardless of dose), which means they also don't compensate for the dehydration on their own within the 24 hours after administration. This was true whether or not the horses were exercised following furosemide administration; exercised horses drank more than unexercised horses, but not enough to make up for the extra losses due to furosemide. In fact, it took medicated horses 72 hours to return to pre-furosemide weight.

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1 hour ago, Thomass said:

The point being...

...Punters have a right to know what's on Lasix...minus 20lbs...and what's not to compare training times and how fit they are

Besides you're wrong

Researchers also discovered that horses do not apparently feel the need to drink more water after having been treated with Lasix (regardless of dose), which means they also don't compensate for the dehydration on their own within the 24 hours after administration. This was true whether or not the horses were exercised following furosemide administration; exercised horses drank more than unexercised horses, but not enough to make up for the extra losses due to furosemide. In fact, it took medicated horses 72 hours to return to pre-furosemide weight.

72 hours is 3 days.  What is the withholding period?

Any trainer who races a dehydrated horse is only going to fail.

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59 minutes ago, curious said:

The opposite may be true. They haven't left in the US where most horses train and race on Lasix. There is some indication that punters prefer it as it reduces an unpredictable variable.

I think it is all a wind up. Most things, he just takes a contra view - no doubt to boost his ego that people respond to him. No one is likely to actually be that stupid.

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5 hours ago, Thomass said:

The point being...

...Punters have a right to know what's on Lasix...minus 20lbs...and what's not to compare training times and how fit they are

Besides you're wrong

Researchers also discovered that horses do not apparently feel the need to drink more water after having been treated with Lasix (regardless of dose), which means they also don't compensate for the dehydration on their own within the 24 hours after administration. This was true whether or not the horses were exercised following furosemide administration; exercised horses drank more than unexercised horses, but not enough to make up for the extra losses due to furosemide. In fact, it took medicated horses 72 hours to return to pre-furosemide weight.

I first thought you were stupid but I've changed my mind. You are just ignorant. 

Any trainer with half a brain would replace lost fluid after training with either a i/v drip or drench. The above research is useless. Why would anyone wait 3 days for rehydration.

chris Waller is doing right by his owners and trying to protect their assets. And why would Waller care what the Hk punters think. They are NOT paying the bills!

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On 3/08/2018 at 4:26 PM, curious said:

The opposite may be true. They haven't left in the US where most horses train and race on Lasix. There is some indication that punters prefer it as it reduces an unpredictable variable.

Seriously you have no idea about punting in NZ let alone what Punters want in HK..

And you might find...if you look hard enough...

Theres a bill before Congress right now that will ban Lasix

And that will involve a total ban...as it should be in Australasia

We should go down the German root of banning bleeders from breeding as well...as its inherited 

If only they'd done that when Northern Dancer was found to have been dosed with Lasix

Our breed wouldn't be having to deal with Waller's Lasix training methods

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23 minutes ago, Thomass said:

And you might find...if you look hard enough...

Theres a bill before Congress right now that will ban Lasix

And that will involve a total ban...as it should be in Australasia

I think you'll find that the bill proposes a 24 hour ban (on all medication) prior to racing, similar to Australasia. The question of whether that should be applied to Lasix is still being debated I think.

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1 hour ago, Thomass said:

Seriously you have no idea about punting in NZ let alone what Punters want in HK..

And you might find...if you look hard enough...

Theres a bill before Congress right now that will ban Lasix

And that will involve a total ban...as it should be in Australasia

We should go down the German root of banning bleeders from breeding as well...as its inherited 

If only they'd done that when Northern Dancer was found to have been dosed with Lasix

Our breed wouldn't be having to deal with Waller's Lasix training methods

So no horse bled before Northern Dancer?

Northern Dancer had quarter cracks did he pass those on?

Are there horses with no Northern Dancer blood that bleed?

Does the extreme physical exertion of racing push the physiology of horse beyond what it is really capable of?  A horse's blood pressure increases 4 times or more when put under race stress.  Naturally that sort of stress does not occur.  

How do you determine which horses to ban from bleeding?  Those that bled enough for it to appear in their nostrils?  Or them and the other 98% that bled?

Or will you put a blanket ban on all horses with Northern Dancer blood?  

What about Bletchingly?  The rumours are he was a bleeder.  He has no Northern Dancer genes.  A very influential sire in the Australasian breed.  Do we ban all progeny that has his blood from breeding?

Of course we will have to ban anything related back to Zabeel and his prolific sire sons as there is Northern Dancer blood in his pedigree.  That will be a shame as it will blow your Zabeels with blinkers theory out the window.

By the way ever since horses have been raced there has been an issue with bleeders well before Northern Dancer was a twinkle in the eye of the breeding barn.  Perhaps it was one of those first four stallions that started it all?

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Yeahh, and what about standardbreds, polo ponies, eventers, show jumpers, barrel horses etc? That's going to be a hell of a lot of horses not breeding along with a few human athletes, quite a few greyhounds and maybe a few camels. And I don't think many of those have much Northern Dancer blood.

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58 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So no horse bled before Northern Dancer?

Northern Dancer had quarter cracks did he pass those on?

Are there horses with no Northern Dancer blood that bleed?

Does the extreme physical exertion of racing push the physiology of horse beyond what it is really capable of?  A horse's blood pressure increases 4 times or more when put under race stress.  Naturally that sort of stress does not occur.  

How do you determine which horses to ban from bleeding?  Those that bled enough for it to appear in their nostrils?  Or them and the other 98% that bled?

Or will you put a blanket ban on all horses with Northern Dancer blood?  

What about Bletchingly?  The rumours are he was a bleeder.  He has no Northern Dancer genes.  A very influential sire in the Australasian breed.  Do we ban all progeny that has his blood from breeding?

Of course we will have to ban anything related back to Zabeel and his prolific sire sons as there is Northern Dancer blood in his pedigree.  That will be a shame as it will blow your Zabeels with blinkers theory out the window.

By the way ever since horses have been raced there has been an issue with bleeders well before Northern Dancer was a twinkle in the eye of the breeding barn.  Perhaps it was one of those first four stallions that started it all?

Hermit was a source of bleeders but he is well back now.

This from Byron Rogers 

"EIPH is a progressive affliction in that all horses, to a certain extent, bleed. Basically it starts at the back of the lungs and move progressively forward. For some horses it gets to a point and doesn't go further, for others it progresses to the point of nasal discharge. What makes one horse discharge and another not, is quite complex and involves both genetic and environmental factors, training intensity/frequency, surface, drugs, and the specific structures of the equine respiratory system."

"...Northern Dancer was a bleeder, but it doesn't seem like he sired a lot of bleeders"

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Yes, it's progressive. That's the point. If you reduce the magnitude of the bleed (using Lasix) then you obviously slow the progression and prolong the usefulness of the horse. Chris Waller knows this but Thommo is too thick to understand. I imagine punters would also approve of that idea.

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1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

So no horse bled before Northern Dancer?

Northern Dancer had quarter cracks did he pass those on?

Are there horses with no Northern Dancer blood that bleed?

Does the extreme physical exertion of racing push the physiology of horse beyond what it is really capable of?  A horse's blood pressure increases 4 times or more when put under race stress.  Naturally that sort of stress does not occur.  

How do you determine which horses to ban from bleeding?  Those that bled enough for it to appear in their nostrils?  Or them and the other 98% that bled?

Or will you put a blanket ban on all horses with Northern Dancer blood?  

What about Bletchingly?  The rumours are he was a bleeder.  He has no Northern Dancer genes.  A very influential sire in the Australasian breed.  Do we ban all progeny that has his blood from breeding?

Of course we will have to ban anything related back to Zabeel and his prolific sire sons as there is Northern Dancer blood in his pedigree.  That will be a shame as it will blow your Zabeels with blinkers theory out the window.

By the way ever since horses have been raced there has been an issue with bleeders well before Northern Dancer was a twinkle in the eye of the breeding barn.  Perhaps it was one of those first four stallions that started it all?

You all well know there's 'grades of bleed'...unless you're as stupid as curious to include every f in bleeder...

1% are serious bleeders...

The Germans are right to get rid...

Im picking ND wasn't a serious bleeder...he was just a trial neddy for his flash az vet who just discovered LASIX....and that losing 20lbs will make a neddy go faster

...and he did 

The thing you're all going to have to ask yourselves..like the whip debate

Is it a good look to the new animal loving generation..who treat animals like humans

To be injecting go fast drugs into animals... for them to piss 25 L out for an hour...in the corner of a urine soaked barn full of pissers

...so they run dehydrated even though their brain says "I'm not thirsty"

Just so humans can have some fun and make money...

Its a bad look and when the animal rights activists get hold of that

They'll pummel the industry with it...and they'll be spot on

 

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36 minutes ago, curious said:

Yes, it's progressive. That's the point. If you reduce the magnitude of the bleed (using Lasix) then you obviously slow the progression and prolong the usefulness of the horse. Chris Waller knows this but Thommo is too thick to understand. I imagine punters would also approve of that idea.

You'd be a big fan of the American way then?

Full of NSAIDS...well known anticoagulants...and on intravenous Bute...24 hours before racing...then an hour of pissing in the corner...just so you can have some fun

Is money really that important for you to treat horses like ATM's?

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2 minutes ago, Thomass said:

You all well know there's 'grades of bleed'...unless you're as stupid as curious to include every f in bleeder...

1% are serious bleeders...

The Germans are right to get rid...

Im picking ND wasn't a serious bleeder...he was just a trial neddy for his flash az vet who just discovered LASIX....and that losing 20lbs will make a neddy go faster

...and he did 

The thing you're all going to have to ask yourselves..like the whip debate

Is it a good look to the new animal loving generation..who treat animals like humans

To be injecting go fast drugs into animals... for them to piss 25 L out for an hour...in the corner of a urine soaked barn full of pissers

...so they run dehydrated even though their brain says "I'm not thirsty"

Just so humans can have some fun and make money...

Its a bad look and when the animal rights activists get hold of that

They'll pummel the industry with it...and they'll be spot on

 

Studies have shown that most horses bleed and that over time it progresses - some quicker than others.

There is no evidence that conclusively proves a horse losing 10kg's of water makes them run faster.  There is substantial evidence that a dehydrated athlete will not perform to their best.

The topic of the thread refers to Waller who only uses Lasix on some horses in training.  Not racing. 

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