Thomass Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 Oh moi gawd...I thought that was some comedy show for a while...he was reading off an auto cue attached to her chest ffs Without disclosure notes...Im picking he's a paid servant of the Lasix Drug Company Inc. The truth is the Thoroughbred breed has been weakened by the continual use of this disgraceful drug...thanks America... If Northern Dancer hadn't have been given Lasix to win the Derby he wouldnt have gone on to spread his woeful bleeding genes And then we'd have a stronger more 'resilient to bleeding' breed Its like the Vagina...and why modern day Thoroughbred mares virtually all need caslicks... If we'd selected for the perfect vagina, instead of the 'speed' vag... we wouldn't be needing vaginas sewn up all over the place And so it's is with EIPH's...Lasix has done away with natural selection.. Theyd have been rooted out long ago Waller should do the breed a favour by rooting them all out...just stop dishing out drugs now Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 It's abundantly clear why you struggle with punting. You look at class of race because you think that is performance related. And with HK, you look at lasix and associate that with HK racing success. It's not lasix, it's the transparency of all things in HK. You look at one thing and think that is the 'all'. Such as generally higher grade races having better performances means they 'all' do. It's why you fail. You don't understand the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 And it's abundantly clear to even PILLOCKS that you're the f in KING of What don't you understand about TOTAL DISCLOSURE?? Pillock?? Its all ENCOMPASSING...it includes LASIX...the HK PUNTERS said f in NO This has got to be a wind up Nobody could be this stupid.. Maybe the KING OF PILLOCKS could be though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Includes drugs generally and many other things they want to be transparent about. What can't you understand about the difference compared to your stupid claim. You aren't logical which is why you think all your ideas actually mean something. Go back to Kindy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 Wtf are you talking about? I said Punters should know a horse on drugs...losing that much weight in training...and not knowing about it being on Lasix... ...should know about it... Its called TRANSPARENCY...and Punters require that for the Integrity of the sport Nothing could be simpler...apart from you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 4 hours ago, Thomass said: As I've said HK Punters have vetoed its use in any way there and obviously that's paid dividends many times over... I was commenting solely on this. You are easily confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 45 minutes ago, Thomass said: Wtf are you talking about? I said Punters should know a horse on drugs...losing that much weight in training...and not knowing about it being on Lasix... ...should know about it... Its called TRANSPARENCY...and Punters require that for the Integrity of the sport Nothing could be simpler...apart from you Tank. The only weight it loses during training while on a diuretic is water. The horse then puts that weight quickly back on by having a drink! Any trainer who sends a horse to the races dehydrated is not going to get maximum performance. Now knowing the weight of a horse is a different matter. The Hong Kong jurisdiction records training weights and race day weights. That may or may not be useful to determining the likely performance of a horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 The point being... ...Punters have a right to know what's on Lasix...minus 20lbs...and what's not to compare training times and how fit they are Besides you're wrong Researchers also discovered that horses do not apparently feel the need to drink more water after having been treated with Lasix (regardless of dose), which means they also don't compensate for the dehydration on their own within the 24 hours after administration. This was true whether or not the horses were exercised following furosemide administration; exercised horses drank more than unexercised horses, but not enough to make up for the extra losses due to furosemide. In fact, it took medicated horses 72 hours to return to pre-furosemide weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 31 minutes ago, mardigras said: I was commenting solely on this. You are easily confused. If HK had have let Lasix in HK Punters would have left in droves... Obviously that relates to "paid dividends many times over" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 16 minutes ago, Thomass said: If HK had have let Lasix in HK Punters would have left in droves... Obviously that relates to "paid dividends many times over" Crap. Provide proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Thomass said: The point being... ...Punters have a right to know what's on Lasix...minus 20lbs...and what's not to compare training times and how fit they are Besides you're wrong Researchers also discovered that horses do not apparently feel the need to drink more water after having been treated with Lasix (regardless of dose), which means they also don't compensate for the dehydration on their own within the 24 hours after administration. This was true whether or not the horses were exercised following furosemide administration; exercised horses drank more than unexercised horses, but not enough to make up for the extra losses due to furosemide. In fact, it took medicated horses 72 hours to return to pre-furosemide weight. 72 hours is 3 days. What is the withholding period? Any trainer who races a dehydrated horse is only going to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 hour ago, mardigras said: Crap. Provide proof The opposite may be true. They haven't left in the US where most horses train and race on Lasix. There is some indication that punters prefer it as it reduces an unpredictable variable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 59 minutes ago, curious said: The opposite may be true. They haven't left in the US where most horses train and race on Lasix. There is some indication that punters prefer it as it reduces an unpredictable variable. I think it is all a wind up. Most things, he just takes a contra view - no doubt to boost his ego that people respond to him. No one is likely to actually be that stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, mardigras said: No one is likely to actually be that stupid. Maybe, but in this case I'm not convinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Thomass said: The point being... ...Punters have a right to know what's on Lasix...minus 20lbs...and what's not to compare training times and how fit they are Besides you're wrong Researchers also discovered that horses do not apparently feel the need to drink more water after having been treated with Lasix (regardless of dose), which means they also don't compensate for the dehydration on their own within the 24 hours after administration. This was true whether or not the horses were exercised following furosemide administration; exercised horses drank more than unexercised horses, but not enough to make up for the extra losses due to furosemide. In fact, it took medicated horses 72 hours to return to pre-furosemide weight. I first thought you were stupid but I've changed my mind. You are just ignorant. Any trainer with half a brain would replace lost fluid after training with either a i/v drip or drench. The above research is useless. Why would anyone wait 3 days for rehydration. chris Waller is doing right by his owners and trying to protect their assets. And why would Waller care what the Hk punters think. They are NOT paying the bills! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, Blossom lady said: I first thought you were stupid but I've changed my mind. You are just ignorant. I wouldn't discount both. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 On 3/08/2018 at 4:26 PM, curious said: The opposite may be true. They haven't left in the US where most horses train and race on Lasix. There is some indication that punters prefer it as it reduces an unpredictable variable. Seriously you have no idea about punting in NZ let alone what Punters want in HK.. And you might find...if you look hard enough... Theres a bill before Congress right now that will ban Lasix And that will involve a total ban...as it should be in Australasia We should go down the German root of banning bleeders from breeding as well...as its inherited If only they'd done that when Northern Dancer was found to have been dosed with Lasix Our breed wouldn't be having to deal with Waller's Lasix training methods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 23 minutes ago, Thomass said: And you might find...if you look hard enough... Theres a bill before Congress right now that will ban Lasix And that will involve a total ban...as it should be in Australasia I think you'll find that the bill proposes a 24 hour ban (on all medication) prior to racing, similar to Australasia. The question of whether that should be applied to Lasix is still being debated I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Seriously you have no idea about punting in NZ let alone what Punters want in HK.. And you might find...if you look hard enough... Theres a bill before Congress right now that will ban Lasix And that will involve a total ban...as it should be in Australasia We should go down the German root of banning bleeders from breeding as well...as its inherited If only they'd done that when Northern Dancer was found to have been dosed with Lasix Our breed wouldn't be having to deal with Waller's Lasix training methods So no horse bled before Northern Dancer? Northern Dancer had quarter cracks did he pass those on? Are there horses with no Northern Dancer blood that bleed? Does the extreme physical exertion of racing push the physiology of horse beyond what it is really capable of? A horse's blood pressure increases 4 times or more when put under race stress. Naturally that sort of stress does not occur. How do you determine which horses to ban from bleeding? Those that bled enough for it to appear in their nostrils? Or them and the other 98% that bled? Or will you put a blanket ban on all horses with Northern Dancer blood? What about Bletchingly? The rumours are he was a bleeder. He has no Northern Dancer genes. A very influential sire in the Australasian breed. Do we ban all progeny that has his blood from breeding? Of course we will have to ban anything related back to Zabeel and his prolific sire sons as there is Northern Dancer blood in his pedigree. That will be a shame as it will blow your Zabeels with blinkers theory out the window. By the way ever since horses have been raced there has been an issue with bleeders well before Northern Dancer was a twinkle in the eye of the breeding barn. Perhaps it was one of those first four stallions that started it all? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Yeahh, and what about standardbreds, polo ponies, eventers, show jumpers, barrel horses etc? That's going to be a hell of a lot of horses not breeding along with a few human athletes, quite a few greyhounds and maybe a few camels. And I don't think many of those have much Northern Dancer blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheFear Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 58 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: So no horse bled before Northern Dancer? Northern Dancer had quarter cracks did he pass those on? Are there horses with no Northern Dancer blood that bleed? Does the extreme physical exertion of racing push the physiology of horse beyond what it is really capable of? A horse's blood pressure increases 4 times or more when put under race stress. Naturally that sort of stress does not occur. How do you determine which horses to ban from bleeding? Those that bled enough for it to appear in their nostrils? Or them and the other 98% that bled? Or will you put a blanket ban on all horses with Northern Dancer blood? What about Bletchingly? The rumours are he was a bleeder. He has no Northern Dancer genes. A very influential sire in the Australasian breed. Do we ban all progeny that has his blood from breeding? Of course we will have to ban anything related back to Zabeel and his prolific sire sons as there is Northern Dancer blood in his pedigree. That will be a shame as it will blow your Zabeels with blinkers theory out the window. By the way ever since horses have been raced there has been an issue with bleeders well before Northern Dancer was a twinkle in the eye of the breeding barn. Perhaps it was one of those first four stallions that started it all? Hermit was a source of bleeders but he is well back now. This from Byron Rogers "EIPH is a progressive affliction in that all horses, to a certain extent, bleed. Basically it starts at the back of the lungs and move progressively forward. For some horses it gets to a point and doesn't go further, for others it progresses to the point of nasal discharge. What makes one horse discharge and another not, is quite complex and involves both genetic and environmental factors, training intensity/frequency, surface, drugs, and the specific structures of the equine respiratory system." "...Northern Dancer was a bleeder, but it doesn't seem like he sired a lot of bleeders" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Yes, it's progressive. That's the point. If you reduce the magnitude of the bleed (using Lasix) then you obviously slow the progression and prolong the usefulness of the horse. Chris Waller knows this but Thommo is too thick to understand. I imagine punters would also approve of that idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: So no horse bled before Northern Dancer? Northern Dancer had quarter cracks did he pass those on? Are there horses with no Northern Dancer blood that bleed? Does the extreme physical exertion of racing push the physiology of horse beyond what it is really capable of? A horse's blood pressure increases 4 times or more when put under race stress. Naturally that sort of stress does not occur. How do you determine which horses to ban from bleeding? Those that bled enough for it to appear in their nostrils? Or them and the other 98% that bled? Or will you put a blanket ban on all horses with Northern Dancer blood? What about Bletchingly? The rumours are he was a bleeder. He has no Northern Dancer genes. A very influential sire in the Australasian breed. Do we ban all progeny that has his blood from breeding? Of course we will have to ban anything related back to Zabeel and his prolific sire sons as there is Northern Dancer blood in his pedigree. That will be a shame as it will blow your Zabeels with blinkers theory out the window. By the way ever since horses have been raced there has been an issue with bleeders well before Northern Dancer was a twinkle in the eye of the breeding barn. Perhaps it was one of those first four stallions that started it all? You all well know there's 'grades of bleed'...unless you're as stupid as curious to include every f in bleeder... 1% are serious bleeders... The Germans are right to get rid... Im picking ND wasn't a serious bleeder...he was just a trial neddy for his flash az vet who just discovered LASIX....and that losing 20lbs will make a neddy go faster ...and he did The thing you're all going to have to ask yourselves..like the whip debate Is it a good look to the new animal loving generation..who treat animals like humans To be injecting go fast drugs into animals... for them to piss 25 L out for an hour...in the corner of a urine soaked barn full of pissers ...so they run dehydrated even though their brain says "I'm not thirsty" Just so humans can have some fun and make money... Its a bad look and when the animal rights activists get hold of that They'll pummel the industry with it...and they'll be spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 36 minutes ago, curious said: Yes, it's progressive. That's the point. If you reduce the magnitude of the bleed (using Lasix) then you obviously slow the progression and prolong the usefulness of the horse. Chris Waller knows this but Thommo is too thick to understand. I imagine punters would also approve of that idea. You'd be a big fan of the American way then? Full of NSAIDS...well known anticoagulants...and on intravenous Bute...24 hours before racing...then an hour of pissing in the corner...just so you can have some fun Is money really that important for you to treat horses like ATM's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thomass said: You all well know there's 'grades of bleed'...unless you're as stupid as curious to include every f in bleeder... 1% are serious bleeders... The Germans are right to get rid... Im picking ND wasn't a serious bleeder...he was just a trial neddy for his flash az vet who just discovered LASIX....and that losing 20lbs will make a neddy go faster ...and he did The thing you're all going to have to ask yourselves..like the whip debate Is it a good look to the new animal loving generation..who treat animals like humans To be injecting go fast drugs into animals... for them to piss 25 L out for an hour...in the corner of a urine soaked barn full of pissers ...so they run dehydrated even though their brain says "I'm not thirsty" Just so humans can have some fun and make money... Its a bad look and when the animal rights activists get hold of that They'll pummel the industry with it...and they'll be spot on Studies have shown that most horses bleed and that over time it progresses - some quicker than others. There is no evidence that conclusively proves a horse losing 10kg's of water makes them run faster. There is substantial evidence that a dehydrated athlete will not perform to their best. The topic of the thread refers to Waller who only uses Lasix on some horses in training. Not racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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