Chief Stipe Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thomass said: You'd be a big fan of the American way then? Full of NSAIDS...well known anticoagulants...and on intravenous Bute...24 hours before racing...then an hour of pissing in the corner...just so you can have some fun Is money really that important for you to treat horses like ATM's? You are starting to sound like an activist now Tank - irrational, illogical and ill-informed. You are not doing racing any favours. When will you stop betting and stop being hypocritical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 30 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Studies have shown that most horses bleed and that over time it progresses - some quicker than others. There is no evidence that conclusively proves a horse losing 10kg's of water makes them run faster. There is substantial evidence that a dehydrated athlete will not perform to their best. The topic of the thread refers to Waller who only uses Lasix on some horses in training. Not racing. Oh rubbish...10kgs of water is the same as 10kgs of feathers...who knew? Even if you subscribe to the theory of 1Kg = 0.1L...or was it many lengths? 10kgs LIGHTER MAKES A DIFFERENCE Or else they wouldn't be using it on non bleeders...wake up And then you tell us they're not performing as well as they could if they were hydrated...make up your mind Its clear Punters should know which horses Waller is using it on in training Punters take notice of training times as a matter of course... They shouldn't have to put up with secretive training regimes Just as HK Punters told the HK JC..."f off with that crap" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 So Thommo, if Lasix is banned for use in racehorses in training and Waller then uses nasal strips instead, I suppose you'd expect that to be reported to punters as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 minute ago, curious said: So Thommo, if Lasix is banned for use in racehorses in training and Waller then uses nasal strips instead, I suppose you'd expect that to be reported to punters as well? Regardless, all treatments and gear changes/additions need to be notified here in Oz.....no exceptions..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Just now, MaltedMilkshake said: Regardless, all treatments and gear changes/additions need to be notified here in Oz.....no exceptions..... Only for raceday isn't it? Not for their use in training which is what we are talking about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Just now, curious said: Only for raceday isn't it? Not for their use in training which is what we are talking about here. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, curious said: So Thommo, if Lasix is banned for use in racehorses in training and Waller then uses nasal strips instead, I suppose you'd expect that to be reported to punters as well? Amazingly...I know But do you think losing 10kgs in weight to train is just a tad different to strips.. ...and besides...HK Punters would get to know that as well Is that all you've got? Anything about your love of racing with drugs coming out of your ears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Where did I say I liked racing with drugs? You made that up. We are talking about training with a particular drug here in case you've forgotten and gone off on a tangent after making a stupid comment about HK punters for which you have provided no evidence when asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, curious said: Only for raceday isn't it? Not for their use in training which is what we are talking about here. In all honesty, if a horse is being treated with a substance as part of its training regime, then it should be notified....punters have the right to know...after all, they are the ones pumping the money into race days... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said: In all honesty, if a horse is being treated with a substance as part of its training regime, then it should be notified....punters have the right to know...after all, they are the ones pumping the money into race days... I don't have a problem with that and I support the 'one clear day' rule for all medication. However, I think trainers, under veterinary advice, should be able to use medication (including Lasix) at their discretion for training purposes subject to withdrawal times of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, curious said: I don't have a problem with that and I support the 'one clear day' rule for all medication. However, I think trainers, under veterinary advice, should be able to use medication (including Lasix) at their discretion for training purposes subject to withdrawal times of course. So let's get this clear.. You support the American system of NSAIDS and intravenous bute 24 hrs before racing ...and Lasix on race day or just training? ...the pitiful site of a bunch of pissing pissers pissing 25L for an hour non stop ...but you don't want to clean that pee out... ...and then you'll front the media when asked "is this what really happens to these lovely horses" ...but not in Germany...where they ban bleeders and pissing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, MaltedMilkshake said: In all honesty, if a horse is being treated with a substance as part of its training regime, then it should be notified....punters have the right to know...after all, they are the ones pumping the money into race days... I thought most racehorses were treated with a substance. And I'd like to know the feed regime as well? When are we going to get that, along with the times and quantities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Thomass said: So let's get this clear.. You support the American system of NSAIDS and intravenous bute 24 hrs before racing ...and Lasix on race day or just training? You obviously not only need to go back and pass primary school maths, but primary school reading as well. See if you can find some sort of remedial assistance 2 hours ago, curious said: I don't have a problem with that and I support the 'one clear day' rule for all medication. However, I think trainers, under veterinary advice, should be able to use medication (including Lasix) at their discretion for training purposes subject to withdrawal times of course. What does that say? I'll try this one more time even though half of it is off topic and you have brought it in to distract from the stupidity of your still unproven statement about HK punters. I DO NOT support horses racing with ANY prohibited substance in their system. I DO support internationally accepted withdrawal times for those. I DO support the Australian rule of no medication for one clear day prior to racing and think we should have the same here. I DO support the current Racing Integrity Act bill under way in the US which proposes a 24 hour prior to racetime ban on all medication I DO support the use of medication including furosemide for training purposes. I was an active supporter of the campaign in the US to prohibit the legal use of phenylbutazone on race day. I am also party to a current submission supporting the US Racing Integrity Act bill. That said, given its half life of about six hours, 24 hours for Bute is ok if it must be, though I'd prefer it and other NSAID use were subject to accepted international withdrawal times, such as those of the FEI. Is that clear? Edited August 5, 2018 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 You'd "prefer" NSAID use was restricted to international norms but you obviously tolerate it... ...and you love watching horses pissing their hearts out in the corner of the box with a bunch of other pissers... ...or do you conveniently turn the other cheek...especially when a filly cant tolerate Lasix and frets? ...and you think Punters want Lasix use because that funds your 'sport'... ...even though HK listened to their Punters...the world's best pound for pound...who said Yea Na... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheFear Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Must have been cold under the bridge last night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxie Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 36 minutes ago, Thomass said: You'd "prefer" NSAID use was restricted to international norms but you obviously tolerate it... ...and you love watching horses pissing their hearts out in the corner of the box with a bunch of other pissers... ...or do you conveniently turn the other cheek...especially when a filly cant tolerate Lasix and frets? ...and you think Punters want Lasix use because that funds your 'sport'... ...even though HK listened to their Punters...the world's best pound for pound...who said Yea Na... You really are anti-racing aren't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheFear Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, Boxie said: You really are anti-racing aren't you? 3-2-1.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, Boxie said: You really are anti-racing aren't you? Very much pro racing...even more pro horse Its inconceivable that one could claim to love these Thoroughbreds... ...then force them to piss for an hour...non stop... When the Germans can do without it....and ban bleedin Breeders... ...and still have world class performers... You can't even understand the basis of pen. readings...so maybe you should take a hike on something way too technical for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxie Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, Thomass said: Very much pro racing...even more pro horse Its inconceivable that one could claim to love these Thoroughbreds... ...then force them to piss for an hour...non stop... When the Germans can do without it....and ban bleedin Breeders... ...and still have world class performers... You can't even understand the basis of pen. readings...so maybe you should take a hike on something way too technical for you The entire breed in Germany is focussed on middle to long distance. About 1,000 foals per year. They still have bleeders and they have no Northern Dance blood. Go figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Boxie said: The entire breed in Germany is focussed on middle to long distance. About 1,000 foals per year. They still have bleeders and they have no Northern Dance blood. Go figure! And HK also ban Lasix entirely... ...of course they have middle to long distance racing all of the time...onya Were talking about serious bleeders being banned... As I say...take a hike and go back to Thoroughbred learning school like ya mate mardi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 curious, Are you putting that forward as a positive or a negative? Please advise. Thank you. Ashoka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ashoka said: curious, Are you putting that forward as a positive or a negative? Please advise. Thank you. Ashoka Sorry, not sure what you mean Ashoka. Putting what forward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxie Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 41 minutes ago, Thomass said: And HK also ban Lasix entirely... ...of course they have middle to long distance racing all of the time...onya Were talking about serious bleeders being banned... As I say...take a hike and go back to Thoroughbred learning school like ya mate mardi Serious bleeders? So they have not so serious bleeders? None of their Grp 1 races are below 2000m!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 curious, Nor do I. This anomalous situation is a direct result of this, and any other, debate on the subject of Lasix use in the equine industries. Actually, I was trying to make a joke and, as usual, fell flat on my face. I forgot to quote your personal remark regarding lasix use. All the best. Ashoka 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Thomass said: You'd "prefer" NSAID use was restricted to international norms but you obviously tolerate it... ...and you love watching horses pissing their hearts out in the corner of the box with a bunch of other pissers... ...or do you conveniently turn the other cheek...especially when a filly cant tolerate Lasix and frets? ...and you think Punters want Lasix use because that funds your 'sport'... ...even though HK listened to their Punters...the world's best pound for pound...who said Yea Na... Yes, I'd tolerate it because they are not likely to be having any effect and as you should know it takes time and compromise to get positive changes in this game. I know nothing about any particular effect of Lasix on fillies. Please enlighten me. I'm aware that some horses can have an allergic reaction but rarely. I've taken it. I well know it makes you pee. That seems somewhere between relatively harmless and quite useful if reducing body fluid might be beneficial in some way. All drugs have risks, benefits and side effects. Have you never taken an NSAID despite the risks? If a trainer switches a horse from regular oats, chaff and hay type feed to an extruded feed mix that reduces gut weight by 20kgs, I suppose you'd want that reported too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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