westbrew

That is the point chief, Racing is getting the profit ie the unallocated money??? Now that is apparently happening because they owned a thing called the totalisator in the early 1900s, that was then computerised and racing was given all the income generated by the Totalisator agency board to shut out the bookies. Now that has continued since the TAB was set up in the early 50s. Racing no doubt still own the Tote they invented it and still own it, but as far as fixed odds wagering on sport, that isn't owned by TAB, so the reason racing is getting the profit from sports betting is just because they always have. Now with the 50/50 Entain deal in play if a foreign bookmaker can get 50% of the profit what is to stop each sport including racing just getting its own share of the other 50%????

Chief i very much doubt there is data exchange between regulators and tab in NZ. There maybe occasional audits, but there is no way that FMA RBNZ or DIA are getting any data from Entain. When you read risk based approach, that is code for do what you want we are asleep at the wheel over here. Entain may send STRs to the police and are required to answer any incoming requests from IRD or Police, but there is no effective way for a regulator to monitor weather in fact Entain are doing the due diligence required of them outside of an audit, thus you are relying on the culture of the organisation, and the TAB has gone from a state controlled entity, to a branch of a Corporate bookmaker based in Australia so is the culture of compliance the same?????

Other Kennels should have plenty of time, there is a working group in Wellington according to Peters who are due to report back to the minister next month, so four months after the ban the Wellington crowd are still having meeting after meeting after meeting, so there is a window of opportunity to get their operations relocated across the Tasman.

I totally agree Wingman, the medium term security of Racing is very much in flux. I for one would rather have some honest discussion about what lays on the horizon, and how things can be done Today for the good of racing for years to come. Isn't NZ number one problem with infrastructure the fact that we keep kicking the can down the road.

But the issue is what due diligence is being done in NZ? Who is the regulator here, why have they not issued a statement saying that they are aware of Entains issues with Austrac in Australia and they are going to take a look s here in NZ just to assure the public that criminals are not using our TAB??? The TAB business is basically being run out of Entain in Brisbane, and below is from the TAB annual report. TAB NZ does not control Entain NZ or have joint control. This is a significant judgement as the partnering arrangement sets boundaries within which Entain NZ must operate and TAB NZ has a call option to reacquire the Entain NZ business either at termination of the 25-year partnership agreement or on the occurrence of any of the early termination provisions outlined in the strategic partnership agreement. The boundaries of operations are not unreasonable given the legislative and industry requirements that such a business operates within. Substantive rights included in the agreement are either limited or are constructed so that TAB NZ can fulfil its legislative obligations. Therefore, it is considered that these rights do not result in power to direct the relevant activities of Entain New Zealand Limited residing with TAB NZ and that TAB NZ cannot influence the operating and financing activities of Entain NZ. Further TAB NZ do not hold shares in Entain NZ, nor do they have the right to appoint the Directors or direct decision making of Entain NZ. Control of The Betting Accounts and Betting Vouchers Trust (the Trust) As at 31 May 2023, Entain NZ was established as Sole Trustee of the Trust and obtained

The old saying in the financial world is, Follow the money. So really there is a basic problem before we all look at the track managers and local committees, do clubs have enough money to maintain their tracks and facilities. I know each club gets a payment from NZTR for running a meeting which is on top of the funded stakes, the annual cost to maintain the track and the refurbishment cost each 5 years or whatever the time frame is should be met via this payment. If that is not the case as i suspect then NZTR is taking the racing product from the clubs who put it on at a discount, and the track issues are simply being magnified by NZTR who makes out it is working on a solution. Simple answer give a decent quant about 2 to 3 weeks and he will provide the true number that is required to be paid to the clubs.

Go have a look at The Mitchell Kerr case from Harness racing, that will tell you more on the Ladbrokes Australia and how they made an art of looking the other way.

I think a lot of sports in NZ get what is for them relatively large sums from the TAB, however the issue really is if Mum and Dad are giving your brother 80$ a week pocket money and you $20 a week pocket money, how long before you tap Mum and Dad up for a better share???? And on a global scale many sports are now waking up to the revenue they can generate on selling the rights to bet on their sports to wagering operators, even if the 4.4m for Basketball is correct, if they used the same formula for Basketball as they do for racing maybe Basketball would get 24.4m

Actually that brings up a very important point in New Zealand who does what Austrac does in Australia??? And when was the last time they did an audit of NZ TAB, i don't see any mention in the TAB last annual report that they have had the tick of approval, and i think they would have mentioned it if they have,

Entain Australia is a much smaller operation than the casinos or banks or sportsbet for that matter. The bottom line is the stuff about systems is a red herring, what all of these Austrac claims show is that the management culture at all of these orgainisations was one of willful blindness, hell a little outfit in the global scale like Ladbrokes Australia and Neds Australia actually have no excuse as the volume of transactions they are dealing with is miniscule on a global scale, there has been really good software around to manage this for over 15 years. The key has been if the management of the organisation have a culture of compliance first and profit second. I believe the culture set by Dean Shannon was one of don't look to hard profit comes first. Now we see turnover in Australia falling as Austrac has made the corporate bookies look a bit harder and so the dodgy money has been drying up. Funny how Shannon and Co turn up in NZ and our turnover is apparently going up, guess he has figured no Austrac in good old NZ.

Perhaps what is needed is to end the old JCA system, i think they are called adjudicators now, a layer of complexity that is not needed, let the stewards hold the drivers accountable, maybe that would give the stewards more confidence to question drives and tactics.

Very interesting statement, they aim to enhance Entain AML and CTF compliance by June 2025. Looking at NZ TAB annual report it appears they are under the impression that Entain have great systems already, is this just another example of having a Board that has no experience in gambling and the associated risks of financial crime expecting a global wagering outfit to put doing the right thing ahead of profit. I hope they are not asleep at the wheel as the last thing racing needs is to be seen to be profiting from the proceeds of crime.

It seems very strange that HRNZ are silent on the matter. The club continue to play the line nothing to see here but then fail to deliver any specific details. Does the minister need to have DIA do an audit of the club to ensure that further public funds are not needed to bail out racing yet again. I think the public would have very little appetite for tax payers money being used for this.

I have not herd anything for a while. The last I herd the sale of Pukekohe had not happened and they were 80m in debt as at the end of last year, with an interest bill of approx 500k per month being added to the debt. Have they found another buyer for their land, and if so at what price?? The last financials i saw show they are not able to sustain these interest payments from a cash flow perspective, thus the Bank are adding them to the Debt. The ATC is an incorporated society and as such is required to be run with much higher standards than a private company. Is the board of HRNZ involved in monitoring this club?

NZ Govt will attempt to place a geo block much as Australia does, on all on line casinos outside the licensed 15, there will more than likely be ways around it for the Tech savvy, plus the Big 15 will be allowed to advertise excuse the expression their tits off, so good luck to TAB/Entain vs 15 online casinos. All us old buggers bought up on racing will plug away but the younger crowd I'm not so sure they are invested in racing anymore.

Ellerslie is designed to cope with very large amounts of Rain. The problem when they started was rain on the day was making it slippery, they have solved that by putting the machinery thru it and thus in layman's terms ruffing it up, as long as they continue to do that, the track will be able to be raced on no matter the amount of rain it cops. As to the appeal of the punting product that will produce, i can only say i am a small punter but i will not be betting on Ellerslie at present.

TAB 4 Eva i am interested in your numbers, i have had a look at the annual accounts of TAB NZ where they say they have provided 26.5 million to sport and 225 million to racing. However when i look at note 8 in their accounts it shows distributions to racing community 214.6m and pokie grants to sporting organisations 3.3 million. I assume the difference between what the financials say ie 215m and what the blurb at the start of the report says ie 225m for racing and 26.5m for sport for a total of 251.5m is made up of the 21m which has come from race fields payments from aussie corps ( which is not anything to do with the TAB business, but they are happy to claim it as a distribution made by them) and the rest is a smoke and mirrors payment re gaming duty refunds. Also the pokie money is split 80% racing and 20% sport. It is clear to me that if racing is getting 225m and sport 26.5m but the turnover is 50/50 as per your Feb number suggests, Racing has well and truly got itself an unsustainable business model, which sometime in the future a Government looking to better fund community sports will tap into.

Geo-Blocking will not affect on-line casino license holders, think of it in these terms, there will be one provider to bet on racing and sports TAB/Entain and there will be 15 online casinos to bet with.

Do not buy Commercial sensitivity, as the business has a NZ monopoly, so who would be gaining a commercial advantage if they were to release comprehensive turnover figures by each code and sport, as they have done in the past???

Yes it is very interesting what they have chosen to leave out??? Given the TAB has simply provided Entain with a License to run there operation why are the usual details being left out????

I would be interested to see the numbers, assuming they come from entain somewhere they will be turnover numbers, it was only a matter of time before sport overtook racing, the big question will be when do big revenue sports like Basketball and Tennis wake up and say how come we don't get a share of the profits? They get a measly 2.5% of turnover, and a few thousand in pokie grants.

Well they need to wake up, 123/1 in a vote in Parliament really??? They think it is all Woke pressure groups, look society moves on back in the 70s Softball and Tennis were big sports in NZ now they are basically non entities as far as serious competition sports within NZ. I love racing and have all my life but the Greyhound people are deluding themselves if they think this is just a woke beat up. Horse racing will survive as they have political clout, look at the KCs Judges, Dames and Sirs that own racehorses, plus look at all the pictures of whinny and Luxton at the races with the mulit millionaire crowd. Greyhound racing basically lost the support of joe blow and unlike horse racing does not have the political clout to fall back on. They have some serious cash use it to help your license holders and dogs move on with their lives.

Couple of things here, the preparation of a track is a NZTR directive, and as the stipes work for RIB they have no obligation whatsoever to make sure that tracks are presented on the morning of the races as per NZTR directives (they are there to ensure license holders adhere to the rules). Given this NZTR has a directive which they have no way of enforcing. I have been a reader of the racing forums for a number of years, while i have only been a small time owner, breeder and punter, when i took the plunge to become a contributor to racing forums early this year, BOAY welcomed me with open arms, the other site referred to in this forum actually made it very difficult to join or contribute.

The first win i ever had as an owner was at Foxton. CD racing is not in a good place at the moment, the RACE financials are very very poor and if RACE cannot make a profit from Racing in the CD, the powers that be at NZTR will need to step in, but does a guy who got the DCM from Sky City really know how to fix the problems in the CD????

Well i attended Trentham on Saturday, my first visit since about 2010 I think, there is no doubt in my mind that we are at the beginning of the end for that course, with all surplus land sold, very little support from joe public ( with no public facilities anymore that's not surprising) and reading thru RACE financials bottom line is that the numbers in their accounts show that racing is not generating enough money to support the running of meetings plus the ongoing of maintenance of tracks and facilities. Trentham needs a serious upgrade to get the next generation to attend Race meetings and with stakes where they are, the money is not there to support that, so i expect Trentham to be sold off within 5 years.