Weasel Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Counties Cup this Saturday. Hello It's Me .. 4yo mare- previously a Rating 81 horse ...winner of just three races, one of them 1 Group 2 against her own sex at 3yo...has copped +13 for running 3rd behind St Emilion and Lizzie L'Amour in the OMF Stakes on Melbourne Cup Day. In a seven horse field. Her only other wins have been at Ruakaka (incl her Maiden). Fair and reasonable?? What are your thoughts, BOAYERS?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 It's the price you pay for running your socks off...out of your grade Im sure they won't mind trading that for a WFA Black type placing...worth way more than an age group BP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Probably harsh, but it's what they do when you race well, and in an event well outside your grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 hours ago, mardigras said: Probably harsh, but it's what they do when you race well, and in an event well outside your grade. Ok...baesd on that observation of racing well, try this one.. Bostonian ...leaves NZ last autumn with a Rating 84 for Australia wins three Stakes races on the trot incl a Group 3 ...comes back into NZ and will resume Sat in a Listed Open Hcp with a Rating of ..84 ...to me that reads that its no better a horse than when it left NZ wevwn though it has had 3 ore wains and earned $200k in Queensland. Has now won 6 from 9 and will carry 56kg, getting 3.5kg off Untamed Diamond and 4kg off Volks Lightning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 They appear to have adjusted his rating up 10 points (due to the Australian starts) which is present alongside the trial prior to departure. Seems an odd way to do it. And 10 points on initial reading seems light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Weasel said: Ok...baesd on that observation of racing well, try this one.. Bostonian ...leaves NZ last autumn with a Rating 84 for Australia wins three Stakes races on the trot incl a Group 3 ...comes back into NZ and will resume Sat in a Listed Open Hcp with a Rating of ..84 ...to me that reads that its no better a horse than when it left NZ wevwn though it has had 3 ore wains and earned $200k in Queensland. Has now won 6 from 9 and will carry 56kg, getting 3.5kg off Untamed Diamond and 4kg off Volks Lightning. Restricted age group racing...i.e. 3yo Black Type doesn't attract the same penalty as Open age BT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, mardigras said: They appear to have adjusted his rating up 10 points (due to the Australian starts) which is present alongside the trial prior to departure. Seems an odd way to do it. And 10 points on initial reading seems light. Weasel, yep, as suggested. The wins in Australia have caused a 10 point rating increase. Was actually only 74 when here. Now 84. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 5 hours ago, mardigras said: Probably harsh, but it's what they do when you race well, and in an event well outside your grade. Thomass 269 Posted 5 hours ago It's the price you pay for running your socks off...out of your grade These posts are almost identical Are you two related by any chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ghost said: Thomass 269 Posted 5 hours ago It's the price you pay for running your socks off...out of your grade These posts are almost identical Are you two related by any chance Related - only by evolution. One of us is still living in the past a long time ago listening to old wives tales. The other isn't. Edited November 21, 2018 by mardigras 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, mardigras said: Related - only by evolution. One of us is still living in the past a long time ago listening to old wives tales. The other isn't. Oh Thank you for clearing that up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Thomass said: Restricted age group racing...i.e. 3yo Black Type doesn't attract the same penalty as Open age BT well Hello It's Me has 1 (only) Stakes WIN in restricted age-group racing. Runs 3rd ahead of 9yo Authentic Paddy and 3 others (averagely performed) and gets smacked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, mardigras said: Related - only by evolution. One of us is still living in the past a long time ago listening to old wives tales. The other isn't. Haha Magoo!! I deal in FACTS... ...such as the reason for this thread...3yo Black Type wins don't attract the same rating increase as Open WFA racing ...very basic stuff... ...and you'll still remain IGNORANT... because you can't see this MAGOO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 28 minutes ago, Weasel said: well Hello It's Me has 1 (only) Stakes WIN in restricted age-group racing. Runs 3rd ahead of 9yo Authentic Paddy and 3 others (averagely performed) and gets smacked! And it's the price you pay to get WFA Black Type in the Catalogue... G3...they rolled the dice and they won't care now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 ..looking at this again... the +10 re-Rating for Bostonian has been earned by winning 3 in a row in Queensland against his own age group. all takes races, one of them a Group 3, the others Listed. (He aint running against hacks in the backblocks of Gungadin or Gunnedah). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 how can you get just +10 for winning $200k from 3 consecutive wins against Australian sprinter-miler 3yos...but give Hello It;'s Me +13 for running 3rd in a WFA 2000m race against 6 opponents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Weasel said: ..looking at this again... the +10 re-Rating for Bostonian has been earned by winning 3 in a row in Queensland against his own age group. all takes races, one of them a Group 3, the others Listed. (He aint running against hacks in the backblocks of Gungadin or Gunnedah). Yep. Possibly a bit light because as a 3yo when winning, other 3yos winning the same level of races here would likely get to more than 84 imo. They rate our 3yo high performers higher generally over there and he is 93 in QLD. I'd say around 87-88 would be about the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Weasel said: ..looking at this again... the +10 re-Rating for Bostonian has been earned by winning 3 in a row in Queensland against his own age group. all takes races, one of them a Group 3, the others Listed. (He aint running against hacks in the backblocks of Gungadin or Gunnedah). It's accepted international Handicapping... The middle win wasn't a Stakes Race...SW...set weights at Doomben This was George Simon's massive issue when talking about the horse he manages Sultan of Swing..an Open Winner... carrying more than Embellish a G1 3yo win He should have known better..but he went right off like a Pork chop...twice on the radio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Thomass said: It's accepted international Handicapping... The middle win wasn't a Stakes Race...SW...set weights at Doomben This was George Simon's massive issue when talking about the horse he manages Sultan of Swing..an Open Winner... carrying more than Embellish a G1 3yo win He should have known better..but he went right off like a Pork chop...twice on the radio ye s i heard George going off about it ..mebbe under pressure to keep the client happy???? Problem for him (Georgre) now is that the handicapper looks good given SOS's performance v Embellish on Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Agree but don't think the minimal weight difference is likely to have any significant impact on future performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, curious said: Agree but don't think the minimal weight difference is likely to have any significant impact on future performance. Definitely. Hello Its Me is 1.5kg above the min from memory. Even the BHA handicappers reckon that 'generally', that is worth sfa according to their document regarding their changes to the WFA scale. Higher rating would be a bonus in my view. Easier to get into the better races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 17 hours ago, Ghost said: Thomass 269 Posted 5 hours ago It's the price you pay for running your socks off...out of your grade These posts are almost identical Are you two related by any chance I was FIRST!! As usual...Magoo however...can't see me...hear me...or feel moi ...I'm sure as hell he'd like to though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 hours ago, curious said: Agree but don't think the minimal weight difference is likely to have any significant impact on future performance. Wow profound ..why don't they just run SW and no app allowances if weight doesn't matter much?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 thanks for all these comments..v helpful...I have learned that: Bostonian's +10pts re rating that appears after his April 2018last race in Nz actually refers to performance progress in Qsld in the winter. That makes sense but placing it before the Qsld career on his Perofrmance Profile is Flocking Stupid. cant they figure a better way of displaying this update ...eg in a line by itself when a horse returns from an overseas campaign? Black Type performances in age group /restrictedraces are rated different to/than WFA Open Grade events. Shoulda realised that. In my view Bostonian is very well off in the weights for his return to NZ racing. Hello It's Me ran out of her skin in the OMF Stakes in a small but high quality field (3 x Grp 1 winners in it). Her re-rating might mean she cops more weight but she'll get into just about any Open Hcp or WFA race on a R94 .. and is only 1.5kg above minimum I have seen this horse and she is a BIG STRONG GIRL. A 'live' chance in the Counties Cup, esp if sting out of ground. Thanks again, people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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