Here we go again!! Horse slips in second at Te Rapa!

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Freda said:

It  would be a rare  mistake for Bart Cowan to make - if in fact he is still at Te Rapa, I presume he is - because he is one of the best.   I just can't imagine him being stood over.

He is still there and still highly respected.  But for the reasons I stated above you'd have to be a track manager genius to get it right with the lack of past investment.

[Special Agent]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

As for the "Stringent Protocols" - are they stringent?  In recent months I get the impression that what is lacking is a lack of quality control and follow up on whether protocols were followed.

For example at Hastings did they gallop horses on the course proper on raceday morning?  

Exactly.  No point to not have follow through. 

[curious]

6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I don't blame the Track Managers at all.  Lack of investment is the biggest factor.

As for the "Stringent Protocols" - are they stringent?  In recent months I get the impression that what is lacking is a lack of quality control and follow up on whether protocols were followed.

For example at Hastings did they gallop horses on the course proper on raceday morning?  

Did they today at Te Rapa? Who rode them and did they confirm the G4 rating?

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Special Agent said:

Trentham track proved safe with a lot of rain and a reasonable length of grass.

Yes but it had 30mm of rain (at least), cold temperatures and stuff all drying.  Te Rapa had a different situation.

 

[Chief Stipe]

I guess they will be following the protocols and galloping some horses on racdeay at Te Aroha on Wednesday?

[curious]

6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I guess they will be following the protocols and galloping some horses on racdeay at Te Aroha on Wednesday?

You'd hope so. The primary stated purpose of that is to confirm the track rating though that is never reported to punters, trainers or owners, certainly not in the tracks' own reports via NZTR nor in the stipes' reports.

Edited October 28 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

@Pete Lane can you inform the posters on the other channel that I walked the track at 11:25am and PM'd my first message at 11:39 about what I thought.

Not that it matters what you or @nomates think.

It was a genuine concern I had as my mates horse has already been stuffed around by track conditions.

@nomates likewise.

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, curious said:

You'd hope so. The primary stated purpose of that is to confirm the track rating though that is never reported to punters, trainers or owners, certainly not in the tracks' own reports via NZTR nor in the stipes' reports.

I doubt it was done at Hastings and I wasn't there long enough to know today.  But all the same the quick heavy shower today at Te Rapa came down around 11:10.  The track reading was taken at 6:23am.  So arguably any track gallop before 11am wouldn't have indicated how the track behaved afterwards.  Would it?

[Chief Stipe]

Two horses slip: Te Rapa track faces abandonment of Sarten Memorial meeting due to safety concerns

By Michael Guerin

NZ Herald·

28 Oct, 2024 06:27 PM4 mins to read

---

Ess Vee Are winning Race 1 before the abandonment. Photo / Kenton Wright Race Images

There is a sad irony in the fact the Te Rapa track that has carried New Zealand racing through such a turbulent last two years finally had a major meeting of its own partially abandoned yesterday.

The Sarten Memorial meeting was abandoned after race 3 when jockeys suggested they could not ride competitively because of safety concerns.

Those were first raised after winner Ess Vee Are slipped on the home bend in the first race, something which was attributed at least partially to him losing a shoe immediately before.

But after two horses slipped in race 3, jockeys Joe Doyle and Warren Kennedy raised further concerns and after a jockeys’ meeting stewards had no option but to call the remainder of the meeting off.

That means the $150,000 Sarten Memorial could not be run but New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing (NZTR) moved quickly to ensure it is run in time to still allow the 3-year-olds involved to then also head to Riccarton for the two Guineas races there next month.

The Sarten will be held in the same field at Te Aroha on Wednesday, with NZTR still working on the exact time.

“We could put it on at the end of the programme already in place there but we don’t really want to do that,” said NZTR’s head of racing operations Tim Aldridge.

“These are top-class 3-year-olds so we want them to race on as good a surface as possible but also give their trainers the option to get them home early as we know many will be wanting to head to Christchurch the following week.”

Most of those starting in the Sarten are being aimed at either the 2000 Guineas at Riccarton on November 9 or in the case of filly Captured By Love potentially the 1000 Guineas a week later.

As messy as Monday’s abandonment is by holding the Sarten on Wednesday it is still realistic those who compete in it and want to continue on to Christchurch can, with the fact they can fly from Auckland to Christchurch a huge help.

What it does increase the possibility of though is superstar fillies Alabama Lass and Captured By Love clashing in the 1000 Guineas at Riccarton on November 16.

Co-trainer Ken Kelso confirmed to the Herald on Monday he is warming to the 1000 Guineas with Alambama Lass and she is now more likely to go than not while the Captured To Love team were already worried about the planned 12-day gap between the Sarten and the 2000 Guineas.

With that now closing to 10 days if Captured By Love heads to Riccarton it would seem more likely she would target the 1000 Guineas a week later for the extra rest.

While the 3-year-old campaigns may recover from Monday’s setback it is another dent in the confidence around New Zealand thoroughbred racing after a horror run with major meeting abandonments in the last two years.

It feels like almost no major metropolitan track has been spared but Te Rapa has been a saving grace, carrying the load for tracks like Ellerslie during its redevelopment, Trentham for an abandoned Captain Cook Group 1 and most recently holding the Livamol meeting moved from Hastings.

The Te Rapa track has been remarkably resilient during that time and track manager Bart Cowan is widely acknowledged as one of the best in the business so at least there aren’t concerns about the issue that caused Monday’s abandonment becoming a regular occurrence.

But for the thoroughbred industry, the connections of all the horses affected and those involved at club and TAB level it was another black eye nobody needed.

[Pete Lane]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

@Pete Lane can you inform the posters on the other channel that I walked the track at 11:25am and PM'd my first message at 11:39 about what I thought.

Not that it matters what you or @nomates think.

It was a genuine concern I had as my mates horse has already been stuffed around by track conditions.

@nomates likewise.

Have done what you asked Chief Stipe.

[Chief Stipe]

Another thing to consider in support of the Track Manager is the protocol about not irrigating so many hours before racing.  Is it a protocol?  OZ Track Managers can irrigate race morning.

The 24 hours before 8am Race Day at Te Rapa had forecast about 15mm+.  If my memory serves me right.  It didn't happen.  If it had the track would have been alright to cope with showers on raceday.

[curious]

"There is a sad irony in the fact the Te Rapa track that has carried New Zealand racing through such a turbulent last two years finally had a major meeting of its own partially abandoned yesterday."

 

Guerin is now really up with the play if he thinks the meeting was yesterday!

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Pete Lane said:

Have done what you asked Chief Stipe.

Thanks.  Many seem to be playing the man or defending the man or blaming God.

The tracks are the biggest single issue for the future of racing in NZ.  Time everyone dropped their swords and sorted.  Even divert some of those exorbitant "aspirational" stakes to fixing them.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, curious said:

"There is a sad irony in the fact the Te Rapa track that has carried New Zealand racing through such a turbulent last two years finally had a major meeting of its own partially abandoned yesterday."

 

Guerin is now really up with the play if he thinks the meeting was yesterday!

Probably thought it wouldn't be published till tomorrow.  Must have been an eager sub-editor working a statutory.

[Chief Stipe]

No way Te Aroha is going to be a "risk".  The track is a soft 6 now and showers are forecast for tomorrow and Wednesday.  Hopefully it doesn't get worse.

[Trojan]

15 hours ago, Pete Lane said:

The horse that cast its shoe was in Race 1. That caused the meeting to be put back a race.

Then in Race 3 Sabrina Hall slipped badly.

End of story.

Where did you read that Sabrina Hall slipped badly?  In the Stewards Vision it was hard to see if any horse slipped.

It wasn't mentioned in the Stewards Report either.

No horses slipped in Race 2.

Immediately following this race, a number of riders expressed concerns regarding the footing around the bend. After 
further meeting with all riders another track inspection committee was convened with the decision being made to 
abandon the meeting.

Report 2024-10-28 Te Rapa-1.pdf

[curious]

32 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Where did you read that Sabrina Hall slipped badly?  In the Stewards Vision it was hard to see if any horse slipped.

It wasn't mentioned in the Stewards Report either.

No horses slipped in Race 2.

Immediately following this race, a number of riders expressed concerns regarding the footing around the bend. After 
further meeting with all riders another track inspection committee was convened with the decision being made to 
abandon the meeting.

Report 2024-10-28 Te Rapa-1.pdf 188.45 kB · 0 downloads

I didn't hear or see anything suggesting a horse slipped badly other than Ess Vee R after losing a shoe in the first losing its footing. Not sure where that came from.

[Thomass]

Alors, Leith Innes has the ear of the jockey room and he named Sabrina as the culprit to Poops on Trackside

Wazza was on the witch and fast out onto the track pointing to the slip with Bart Cowan looking on

Recently back from an extended holiday he's probably telling Butch "it's not my fault"

When you have Wizards, Witches and Butchers in the mix it's never going to end well I'm afraid

[curious]

11 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Alors, Leith Innes has the ear of the jockey room and he named Sabrina as the culprit to Poops on Trackside

Wazza was on the witch and fast out onto the track pointing to the slip with Bart Cowan looking on

Recently back from an extended holiday he's probably telling Butch "it's not my fault"

When you have Wizards, Witches and Butchers in the mix it's never going to end well I'm afraid

We know he was on Sabrina in that race where he reported the track to be slippery. Did Leith say it slipped badly then?

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, curious said:

We know he was on Sabrina in that race where he reported the track to be slippery. Did Leith say it slipped badly then?

Since when has Leith been a Steward?

[Thomass]

31 minutes ago, curious said:

We know he was on Sabrina in that race where he reported the track to be slippery. Did Leith say it slipped badly then?

You get the impression from how he talks that ANY slip no matter how minor is a major

After the Ist he told Poops he would've gone out in the next race and galloped over the slippage to assess how bad it was

Australian tracks have very similar abandonments at this time of the year as well so lets not believe it's solely a NZ problem

i dont recall Ellerslie having any slip issues when they had a solid concrete ensconced rail while racing all year around?

Also this crazy idea of moving a rail out 3m then back to True and believing we'll get 'fair racing' and there will be no bias needs to stop now

 

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Also this crazy idea of moving a rail out 3m then back to True and believing we'll get 'fair racing' and there will be no bias needs to stop now

What if you moved it the other way?  I.e. inside to outside?

[Chief Stipe]

23 minutes ago, Thomass said:

You get the impression from how he talks that ANY slip no matter how minor is a major

I don't think it is Lethal that is making it into a major.  Afterall it isn't him that has made the decisions recently to abandon.  I watched him at Hastings and he had minimal interaction if any with those making the decisions.

[Pete Lane]

3 hours ago, Trojan said:

Where did you read that Sabrina Hall slipped badly?  In the Stewards Vision it was hard to see if any horse slipped.

It wasn't mentioned in the Stewards Report either.

No horses slipped in Race 2.

Immediately following this race, a number of riders expressed concerns regarding the footing around the bend. After 
further meeting with all riders another track inspection committee was convened with the decision being made to 
abandon the meeting.

Report 2024-10-28 Te Rapa-1.pdf 188.45 kB · 2 downloads

It's mentioned in the article by Guerin that 2 horses slipped.

The quote below is from a LoveRacing article.

 

"Jockey Sam Weatherley reported his mount, Ess Vee Are, had slipped prior to entering the straight before going on to win the opening race of the card, while Joe Doyle and Warren Kennedy reported that their horses, Oppenheimer and Sabrina Hall, had also slipped in race three, resulting in a decision to abandon the meeting."

[Pete Lane]

3 hours ago, curious said:

I didn't hear or see anything suggesting a horse slipped badly other than Ess Vee R after losing a shoe in the first losing its footing. Not sure where that came from.

Came from 2 separate articles.

Whether they're correct is not clear.