Family Benefit ?

[Joe Kidd]

I'm not a big fan of family members driving together in the same race. It leaves the gate wide open to race manipulation or at the very least, the suggestion of it. People go to jail for insider trading yet we are supposed to accept the motivation of money is apparently not enough to produce question race results. I've seen so many choreographed races especially in NSW and Queensland, I no longer wager there but will watch races from those venues for future reference etc.  

I watched race 5 from Albion Park today. I've seen what Grant and Trista Dixon can get up to when both driving in the same race for years so often check out their activity. Here's a little history.

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Driver-Trista-Dixon-disqualified-for-12-months

https://www.punters.com.au/news/trista-dixon-banned-for-12-months_164962/

https://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/qld-racing/top-queensland-harness-trainer-grant-dixon-has-two-positives-to-arsenic/news-story/fd8864f10f7c57f72af744d546c0e059

 

So you get the idea.

So, back to R5 today. Grant driving the $1.90 fav Makoa going for a hatrick. Trista drives the stablemate Outlaw Fella.

Grant got my attention at the start of the race when he seemed very interested in Trista out wide and her quest to get the front. 

Trista is in front smoking the pipe. Grant sits back and does not put in. Ran like a 50-1 shot, not an even money fav.

I've asked the question before. Would the normally aggressive driver have been more interested in racing if the horse leading was not the stablemate being driven by his wife? I may well be wrong but there is a history there and Makoa has not run like a dromedary in previous starts. I feel the question is worth asking.

 

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=AP250119#APC25011901

[Flagship uberalles]

8 minutes ago, Joe Kidd said:

I'm not a big fan of family members driving together in the same race. It leaves the gate wide open to race manipulation or at the very least, the suggestion of it. People go to jail for insider trading yet we are supposed to accept the motivation of money is apparently not enough to produce question race results. I've seen so many choreographed races especially in NSW and Queensland, I no longer wager there but will watch races from those venues for future reference etc.  

I watched race 5 from Albion Park today. I've seen what Grant and Trista Dixon can get up to when both driving in the same race for years so often check out their activity. Here's a little history.

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Driver-Trista-Dixon-disqualified-for-12-months

https://www.punters.com.au/news/trista-dixon-banned-for-12-months_164962/

https://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/qld-racing/top-queensland-harness-trainer-grant-dixon-has-two-positives-to-arsenic/news-story/fd8864f10f7c57f72af744d546c0e059

 

So you get the idea.

So, back to R5 today. Grant driving the $1.90 fav Makoa going for a hatrick. Trista drives the stablemate Outlaw Fella.

Grant got my attention at the start of the race when he seemed very interested in Trista out wide and her quest to get the front. 

Trista is in front smoking the pipe. Grant sits back and does not put in. Ran like a 50-1 shot, not an even money fav.

I've asked the question before. Would the normally aggressive driver have been more interested in racing if the horse leading was not the stablemate being driven by his wife? I may well be wrong but there is a history there and Makoa has not run like a dromedary in previous starts. I feel the question is worth asking.

 

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=AP250119#APC25011901

Your quite right Joe, Qld, NSW always been alot of smoke n fire

[Joe Kidd]

In the US, they couple or bracket horses that have the same owner or trainer in a race. Obviously, they value transparency and believe only the horses should wear blinds or blinkers.

Stands to reason that many punters could potentially feel they have just been bent over a table when they watch the hot fav run like a half asleep pregnant goat despite having superb form but watch the stablemate go on and win after being gifted a relatively comfortable lead. 

I'm not sure which state is the worst. Some races involving family members in NSW and Queensland more closely relate to a choreographed pantomime than an actual race. Our harness racing is generally far more authentic by comparison. In saying that, most examples of questionable tactics I've witnessed invariably involve only a small number of colours and names. 

[Harewood]

11 hours ago, Joe Kidd said:

So, back to R5 today

Have watched this race several times and I think that you are reading too much into it. 

Makoa had drawn the inside of the second line and therefore had no chance to try for the lead. As for Dixon looking across at his other stablemate, Outlaw Fella, I beleive he was just checking for options of enable  himself to get off the rail early whichhe did. Its a bit of a long bow to suggest that he was watching his stablemate as he was in no position to  assist it by letting it go to the lead.

Outlaw Fella worked to the lead  after 600 meters and Makoa ended up in the one one and then one two. He made a run three wide from the 500 approx and into the straight was just not good enough despite Dixons urgings to run on and infact got passed by the horse behind him.

Outlaw Fella had won nearly twice as much as Makoa and had been racing  consistenly in the C4 or better fields which Makoa was comming through the grades and mostly been racing  recently in C2 and better fields.  Outlaw Fella had won the same distance, same grade two starts back by leading all the way while Makoa wins had been over the shorter 1600 meters.

IMO Makoa was a very false favourite and Outlaw had far better stats and and won at a fair price in which he was probably the best credentialed horse in the field.

This is not to say that I dont beleive that their is manipulation in ALL harness especially with stablemates and ESPECIALLY NSW country meetings where several trainers/drivers have been given lifetime bans.

[Joe Kidd]

Morning Harewood,

You're not the first to suggest I'm reading too much into something. While you may well be correct, in general terms, I'd rather read too much than not enough.

I'm not suggesting GD attempted in any way to assist TD at race start. TD drawn the outside of the front line and GD drawn 1 on the second line. He wasn't looking for position. He stayed where he was drawn. The only reason I mentioned his looking out wide was that it appeared he was interested in what the stablemate driven by his wife was doing. It's almost certain that this aspect at race start was the race plan.

Makoa could have been a false favourite but that's not the point. The horse was going for it's third win in a row yet didn't put in at all or even go and sit upside the leader which is a fairly common spot to see a GD drive. Meanwhile, the stablemate driven by his wife has it's own way in front and does the business. Had Makoa been the only stable rep in the race, I wouldn't have said anything. It was fully stretched to win it's previous race. Outlaw Fella deserved it's victory but Makoa was not involved in the race at any point. If GD had sat parked or made his run earlier it would have at least appeared like he was there to race. He did absolutely no work in the race yet showed zero. On that run, how had he won his previous two races?

It's the family connection that gets my attention and the fact there is a history of assisting each other during races. A 12 month banning that TD copped previously highlights that fact. The whole Leopard and spots thing comes to mind. 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Joe Kidd

[Flagship uberalles]

33 minutes ago, Joe Kidd said:

Morning Harewood,

You're not the first to suggest I'm reading too much into something. While you may well be correct, in general terms, I'd rather read too much than not enough.

I'm not suggesting GD attempted in any way to assist TD at race start. TD drawn the outside of the front line and GD drawn 1 on the second line. He wasn't looking for position. He stayed where he was drawn. The only reason I mentioned his looking out wide was that it appeared he was interested in what the stablemate driven by his wife was doing. It's almost certain that this aspect at race start was the race plan.

Makoa could have been a false favourite but that's not the point. The horse was going for it's third win in a row yet didn't put in at all or even go and sit upside the leader which is a fairly common spot to see a GD drive. Meanwhile, the stablemate driven by his wife has it's own way in front and does the business. Had Makoa been the only stable rep in the race, I wouldn't have said anything. It was fully stretched to win it's previous race. Outlaw Fella deserved it's victory but Makoa was not involved in the race at any point. If GD had sat parked or made his run earlier it would have at least appeared like he was there to race. He did absolutely no work in the race yet showed zero. On that run, how had he won his previous two races?

It's the family connection that gets my attention and the fact there is a history of assisting each other during races. A 12 month banning that TD copped previously highlights that fact. The whole Leopard and spots thing comes to mind. 

Yes I have to agree, Harewood right that makoa was a false fav outlaw fella much better horse, but it still looks a bit dodgy....last Qld driver to get done for race fixing grant Cockburn, you would think top drivers like that would be the last ones to fix races, apparently only got paid $200 while the punter made $33000....

You are right about yanks bracketing horses in races from same stable or owned by the same interests..... good idea

[Joe Kidd]

1 hour ago, Flagship uberalles said:

Yes I have to agree, Harewood right that makoa was a false fav outlaw fella much better horse, but it still looks a bit dodgy....last Qld driver to get done for race fixing grant Cockburn, you would think top drivers like that would be the last ones to fix races, apparently only got paid $200 while the punter made $33000....

You are right about yanks bracketing horses in races from same stable or owned by the same interests..... good idea

I often ask myself, what would I do if I owned two horses in the same race and horse (B) needed a strong pace to show his best. Would I ask the driver / rider of horse (A) to ensure the pace was strong? Yes, I would but not to the detriment of horse B. If horse B needed a slowly run race to show his best I wouldn't ask the rider / driver to do otherwise.

Kenny Browne would almost always have the fittest horse in the jumps race so ideally needed to turn them into the survival of the fittest. If he had multiple runners and it was a slow pace he would do something about that. Sound and sensible race tactics to my eye. The sacrificing of one stable runner for the benefit of another is outrageous and tantamount to fraud / theft. Punters are cheated and the connections of rival horses are cheated. Some of the more high profile stables have considerable experience in this area. B, more than M for example in years gone by.

Racing should be a level playing field which is why we have a handicapping system. There is no point in creating new rules so there are not multiple runners from the same stable in the one race. Most will have different owners and we've seen what happens when trainers are suspended in the past. Almost business as usual. Just a different name beside the horse in the racebook. Usually the wife or brother. A level playing field is only level if everyone plays the game.

I was a defence witness in a high profile court case a few years back. The judge instructed everyone involved not to discuss the case or how the trial was going with anyone, especially other witnesses. To be fair, it would have been of assistance to do so but nobody in the defence side said a word to each other during the case. I found out later that every one of the prosecution witnesses got together every night during the trial to compare notes. Honesty and integrity within these systems is largely akin to the way many drivers view rear view mirrors in their car. Just an optional extra and about as pointless as putting your hand on a bible and swearing to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yea right, many see that same bible as a very useful doorstop. Myself included. 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Joe Kidd

[Harewood]

1 hour ago, Flagship uberalles said:

Yes I have to agree, Harewood right that makoa was a false fav outlaw fella much better horse, but it still looks a bit dodgy....last Qld driver to get done for race fixing grant Cockburn, you would think top drivers like that would be the last ones to fix races, apparently only got paid $200 while the punter made $33000....

You are right about yanks bracketing horses in races from same stable or owned by the same interests..... good idea

Driver  you are referring to is Bart Cockburn. He was fined $5000 in court but has alife time ban off any form of racecourse.  Funily re this post he used to work for G Dixon for 2 years where he became an outstanding young driver and then out on his own a very promissing trainer who won several G1s and seemed to have the game at his feet. Your right it is quite often is the ones who are most successfull that try and cheat and fix races. Just look at whos charged in NZ currently. Tthe ones who dont need the money the most fall to greed. Possibly because they are on the better horses it is easier to manipulate a race than a lesser light on a horse that carnt keep up.

I was not a fan of brackets when they were common in NZ. If you were waiting for an unlucky horse to start it invariably was bracketed with a fav. Your horse would win, should have paid 20s but paid 3s because of the other fav who ran down the track. 

[Flagship uberalles]

5 minutes ago, Harewood said:

Driver  you are referring to is Bart Cockburn. He was fined $5000 in court but has alife time ban off any form of racecourse.  Funily re this post he used to work for G Dixon for 2 years where he became an outstanding young driver and then out on his own a very promissing trainer who won several G1s and seemed to have the game at his feet. Your right it is quite often is the ones who are most successfull that try and cheat and fix races. Just look at whos charged in NZ currently. Tthe ones who dont need the money the most fall to greed. Possibly because they are on the better horses it is easier to manipulate a race than a lesser light on a horse that carnt keep up.

I was not a fan of brackets when they were common in NZ. If you were waiting for an unlucky horse to start it invariably was bracketed with a fav. Your horse would win, should have paid 20s but paid 3s because of the other fav who ran down the track. 

When did bracketing in NZ end Harewood?

[hunterthepunter]

8 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

When did bracketing in NZ end Harewood?

bracket me with Bec as I need a wine lol

[Harewood]

7 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

When did bracketing in NZ end Harewood?

I beleive it was sometime in the 80s but someone will be more accurate than that Im sure. Some of the better horses I remember being bracketed were, Waitaki Gamble,Waipounamu and Screws Loose, Black Frost and Allakasam,  Johnny Gee andTony Bear, Manaroa-Manawaru-Royal Ascot. All top horses at the time.

[Flagship uberalles]

26 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said:

bracket me with Bec as I need a wine lol

Becs likes the wine out of the cardboard box!