Freda Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 A query for train-spotters....is the wfa scale standard world-wide? or are there differences from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Not the same everywhere Freda -The fly blown lot altered theirs when their souped up 3yos were winning too many. Pathetic little cousin yelled me too and followed suit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 Remember that, yes. What about the mares' concession...I know ours get a ridiculous 2 kg through set weight events but does it follow through to WFA too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Fillies and mares get a 2kg allowance in all WFA.-and that is as it should be. Those who rant on about the female allowance need to face facts. Before commenting they should view the statistics provided by the annual stallion register. These list the results of each sex separately , the number of runners, number of wins, prizemoney. -.It will roughly show that females average 1.5 wins and males 2.5. and with a correspondingly increase in stakes won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Hmm..not sure if I concur with that..however it does seem that the girls get a lesser allowance in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Freda said: Remember that, yes. What about the mares' concession...I know ours get a ridiculous 2 kg through set weight events but does it follow through to WFA too? Ridiculous ?? If you do the basic homework suggested then you may well alter your opinion. It is hard to argue with facts and the WFA scale with sex allowances has been proven world wide for yonks. Females are generally the weaker sex -that's why they have separate events at the Olympics etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Fred said: Fillies and mares get a 2kg allowance in all WFA.-and that is as it should be. Those who rant on about the female allowance need to face facts. Before commenting they should view the statistics provided by the annual stallion register. These list the results of each sex separately , the number of runners, number of wins, prizemoney. -.It will roughly show that females average 1.5 wins and males 2.5. and with a correspondingly increase in stakes won. But you are assuming that weight is the only factor. Fillies and mares don't race as often as males particularly gelded ones. Also a key point in this present discussion is why is there a difference between jurisdictions in female allowances? Is an English pound heavier than a New Zealand one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: But you are assuming that weight is the only factor. Fillies and mares don't race as often as males particularly gelded ones. Also a key point in this present discussion is why is there a difference between jurisdictions in female allowances? Is an English pound heavier than a New Zealand one? Thanks Chief....I clearly didn't make that point very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 51 minutes ago, Freda said: Thanks Chief....I clearly didn't make that point very well. I thought you did and of course I agree. You can not draw conclusions from strike rates whether it's jockeys or trainers or females cf males with comparing them to a reasonably accurate assessment of chance the horses would have had with that variable excluded. That's just dumb and one of the main reasons why most punters lose. Do that kind of assessment on the female allowance in the wfa scales and you will arrive at a different answer I suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 13 hours ago, curious said: I thought you did and of course I agree. You can not draw conclusions from strike rates whether it's jockeys or trainers or females cf males with comparing them to a reasonably accurate assessment of chance the horses would have had with that variable excluded. That's just dumb and one of the main reasons why most punters lose. Do that kind of assessment on the female allowance in the wfa scales and you will arrive at a different answer I suspect. So what's the 'handicapping model' we should be using? HK, NSW, Vic?? Oh that's right that's what we use...Brits?? Where the female allowance is already 'built in'.. Whats the 'shangri la' of handicapping bliss? What about measuring each neddys stride at full tit...along with the cadence...before their careers start... ...weight carried correlating to body weight....all that stuff Surely with all of these new technology's we have available these days a brand new model is within our grasp... ...Handicapping Robots using AI...and that's not artificial inseminating robots either.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Oh...ffs....dont derail my query please Thommo. Think I'd better re phrase it...I just want to know what differentials exist in the WFA scale from country to country. It has stood the test of time as an arbiter of excellence world wide...I do remember, now that Fred jogged my memory, that the Aussies tinkered with the 3 y.o. section but wasn't aware that the girls had their portion altered as well. I'm not arguing about the need for a female allowance, just the size of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Did the female allowance help Black Caviar, Winx, Melody Belle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Freda said: Oh...ffs....dont derail my query please Thommo. Think I'd better re phrase it...I just want to know what differentials exist in the WFA scale from country to country. It has stood the test of time as an arbiter of excellence world wide...I do remember, now that Fred jogged my memory, that the Aussies tinkered with the 3 y.o. section but wasn't aware that the girls had their portion altered as well. I'm not arguing about the need for a female allowance, just the size of it. It's all on Dr. Google Freda..Im a bit tied up at the mo and you can blame...not moi for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Did the female allowance help Black Caviar, Winx, Melody Belle? It's actually quite sickening how Johnny cum Lately modern day 'experts' want to dump on the genius Admiral who arrived at this piece of art... "The uncertainty of handy capping which I have observed does not always give general satisfaction," Admiral Rous wrote in 1849. "Every great handicap offers a premium to fraud: in vain may the Jockey Club protest and express their supreme disappointment of horses being started for races with the intention of owners of not trying to win; horses are started out of condition" … and … "On the subject of handy capping there is nothing so easy as to find fault; it is a capricious field for scribblers on racing topics, the most honourable gentleman may object to be set up as a popinjay for the mark of every scribbler". You sir, appear to be one of his much hated 'scribbler's'...keep scratching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Did the female allowance help Black Caviar, Winx, Melody Belle? And of course the other thing that happened in the Admirals day... Is Stallions still raced while they were older horses.... These mares are racing against males who would have been distanced by older Now retired to Stud Stallions...that's a big modern day racing difference... Physiologically horses peak just before they reach 5...although some continue to @ 7... ...mares receive the allowance because they physically weigh lighter cf Stallions and nowdays Geldings... Ask a Stallion reaching maturity at an average of 500kgs....compared to a fully mature average Mare at 470kgs to carry the same Handicap weight... ...and they'll gleefully accept... The Admiral however knew better...and said.... " here, have a couple of kilos off...or 0.25 secs start" That evened the ledger..and here endeth your lesson Cheers Admiral...you da man... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 9 hours ago, Freda said: Oh...ffs....dont derail my query please Thommo. Think I'd better re phrase it...I just want to know what differentials exist in the WFA scale from country to country. It has stood the test of time as an arbiter of excellence world wide...I do remember, now that Fred jogged my memory, that the Aussies tinkered with the 3 y.o. section but wasn't aware that the girls had their portion altered as well. I'm not arguing about the need for a female allowance, just the size of it. Off the top of my head Freda, I think it's 2kgs Oz, NZ, Japan. 3lbs UK, Europe? 4lbs Hong Kong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 And here's some fairly robust analysis that suggests that the Admiral was wrong and the allowance should probably be removed although I note that's not what you asked. https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/why-fillies-mares dont-need-weight-allowance-highest-level/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 Yeah, very interesting indeed, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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