Chief Stipe Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 BOAY questions are in bold. Hopefully this clears things up for a few trainers. Q1. Are the rules the same? The NZ Rule is 804(5) (b) not 805(b) as quoted in your email. In essence 804(5)(b) is the same as the Australian Rule 178AA. However, in Australia they have added Rule 178AB to 178AA and these two rules together are referred to as the "one clear day rule". Q2. If so is the interpretation and application of the Rule in NZ different to that in Australia? There is no difference as far as what is covered in 178AA is concerned. What has caused and continues to cause confusion is that Rule 178AA in Australia has been expanded by Rule 178AB which extends the the One Clear day rule to ban all injections one clear day ahead of racing. The RIU has been recommending to both NZTR and HRNZ for the past two years that the NZ rules should include a comprehensive "one clear day rule" to include all treatments to a horse to avoid the current confusion. Note that Harness racing has no rules regarding one clear day for any medication including alkalising agents. Q3 and 4. What race day testing for the presence of Alkalising agents has been undertaken in the last 12 months in New Zealand? At what locations has the sampling for testing been undertaken? What is commonly called TCO2 testing (alkalising agents) is carried out in NZ. The total testing in any racing season is 2,200 to 2,500 tests, Harness 1,800/2000, Thoroughbred 350/500. Testing can be carried out on all race tracks. We have spoken with the Queensland Stewards. The product Mr Pike used (Neutrolene) was a routine supplement but because it contained an alkalising agent it breached the rules. The supplement could not have resulted in a positive test on race day. Regards Mike Mike GodberGeneral Manager 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Is he a politician. Perhaps a question to ask might have been, would what Pike did in Australia be considered to be breaking the rules in NZ rather than waffling on about rule numbers and what he finds confusing. From what I've read, that would be breaking the rules. Where is the confusion? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 15, 2018 Author Share Posted May 15, 2018 18 minutes ago, mardigras said: Is he a politician. Perhaps a question to ask might have been, would what Pike did in Australia be considered to be breaking the rules in NZ rather than waffling on about rule numbers and what he finds confusing. From what I've read, that would be breaking the rules. Where is the confusion? I think what we can conclude is that YES if what was done in OZ was detected in NZ then the same result should have applied. BOAY has clarified that for all trainers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, mardigras said: Is he a politician. Perhaps a question to ask might have been, would what Pike did in Australia be considered to be breaking the rules in NZ rather than waffling on about rule numbers and what he finds confusing. From what I've read, that would be breaking the rules. Where is the confusion? And perhaps, given it seems they have straightened out Pike's misinformation to Queensland stewards, will they be investigating whether or not he has been doing the same here which he has implied and others on here have appeared to confirm. If no action is taken, then the already dubious state of integrity in NZ racing will have added further grist to that mill. If the rule is not going to be vigorously enforced then they might as well get rid of it rather than expand it. I'm also not quite clear how the expanded Australian rule 178AB (one clear day for ANY injections) could cause any confusion about the rule 804(5) (b) here and its equivalent rule 178AB there with respect to alkalanising agents. Also the response on the testing question is waffly. In March and April TCO2 testing was performed at only two North Island thoroughbred meetings and on a total of 23 horses. Is that adequate? I note that will not detect the use of alkalinisers such as Neutrolene administered in the one clear day space. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: I think what we can conclude is that YES if what was done in OZ was detected in NZ then the same result should have applied. BOAY has clarified that for all trainers. Thanks chief. It would have been simple if he just said that. Perhaps, if what has been suggested was said by a stipe over the weekend is true, BOAY/Mr Godber could also clarify the rule for the stipes as well since it would appear that the stipe did have some confusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Curious to know if: any other trainers' horse were tested for alkalinizing agents on the same day - ie is it a routine test (and Mr Pike got caught stuffing up in a clearly minor way)? Did Mr Pike know the rules that applied in Australia - having campaigned in Queensland before, including at the same carnival last year? Who/what caused the Ozzie stewards to test these horses for this? Random, or pre-ordained? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Weasel said: Curious to know if: any other trainers' horse were tested for alkalinizing agents on the same day - ie is it a routine test (and Mr Pike got caught stuffing up in a clearly minor way)? Did Mr Pike know the rules that applied in Australia - having campaigned in Queensland before, including at the same carnival last year? Who/what caused the Ozzie stewards to test these horses for this? Random, or pre-ordained? Not sure what you're on about Weasel. No testing was involved. The breach was for administration during the pre-race period where that is not allowed. Maybe go read the 'Tony Pike's Horses Scratched at Doomben for Late Treatment' thread and come back to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 2 hours ago, curious said: I'm also not quite clear how the expanded Australian rule 178AB (one clear day for ANY injections) could cause any confusion about the rule 804(5) (b) here and its equivalent rule 178AB there with respect to alkalanising agents. Oops that should have read: I'm also not quite clear how the expanded Australian rule 178AB (one clear day for ANY injections) could cause any confusion about the rule 804(5) (b) here and its equivalent rule 178AA there with respect to alkalanising agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackM Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 17 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Q1. Are the rules the same? The NZ Rule is 804(5) (b) not 805(b) as quoted in your email. In essence 804(5)(b) is the same as the Australian Rule 178AA. However, in Australia they have added Rule 178AB to 178AA and these two rules together are referred to as the "one clear day rule". Q2. If so is the interpretation and application of the Rule in NZ different to that in Australia? There is no difference as far as what is covered in 178AA is concerned. What has caused and continues to cause confusion is that Rule 178AA in Australia has been expanded by Rule 178AB which extends the the One Clear day rule to ban all injections one clear day ahead of racing. The RIU has been recommending to both NZTR and HRNZ for the past two years that the NZ rules should include a comprehensive "one clear day rule" to include all treatments to a horse to avoid the current confusion. Note that Harness racing has no rules regarding one clear day for any medication including alkalising agents. Q "one clear day rule" .... Is this the achilles heal for some? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 On 15/05/2018 at 8:48 PM, curious said: Not sure what you're on about Weasel. No testing was involved. The breach was for administration during the pre-race period where that is not allowed. Maybe go read the 'Tony Pike's Horses Scratched at Doomben for Late Treatment' thread and come back to us. thanks for the heads-up on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 On 15/05/2018 at 3:58 PM, Chief Stipe said: BOAY questions are in bold. Hopefully this clears things up for a few trainers. Q3 and 4. What race day testing for the presence of Alkalising agents has been undertaken in the last 12 months in New Zealand? At what locations has the sampling for testing been undertaken? What is commonly called TCO2 testing (alkalising agents) is carried out in NZ. The total testing in any racing season is 2,200 to 2,500 tests, Harness 1,800/2000, Thoroughbred 350/500. Testing can be carried out on all race tracks. Wow 1800/2000 tests in harness racing and only 350/500 in thoroughbred. Does that seem weird figures to anybody else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I'd like to see the 1st 3 past the post tested, every race , every meeting to keep it honest. While there would be a cost to those involved, it would stop a lot of skullduggery in the thoroughbred industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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