Incentivise: What weight penalty for the MC will he get for winning the CC? Gets 1.5kg.

[Chief Stipe]

Peter Moody believes Racing Victoria's chief handicapper Greg Carpenter 'won't crucify' Incentivise when re-handicapping the Caulfield Cup winner for next month's $8m Lexus Melbourne Cup (3200m).

Moody hinted that Incentivise would not run in the Melbourne Cup if he and connections believed Incentivise was harshly treated at the weights but downplayed that possibility occurring.

"I'm not going to go down the path of trying to convince handicappers but I've got to be honest, that would play a part (in deciding to run)," Moody told RSN's Correct Weight.

"What weight is he going to be asked to carry? It will be interesting to see what Greg's assessment is. His assessment off the Makybe (Diva) where I thought he was very harsh on him, he was proven right. 

"I'd like to think that he will give him a chance to go to the Melbourne Cup because it's probably only ever going to be his chance to go to a Melbourne Cup."

Carpenter has handicapped the Caulfield and Melbourne Cups since 2005 and under his reign has never resorted to issuing a weight penalty greater than 2kg for a Caulfield Cup winner heading to Flemington 16 days later.

Incentivise is sure to test Carpenter's discretionary judgement. The gelded son of Shamus Award won the $5m G1 Carlton Draught Caulfield Cup (2400m) by 3.5 lengths, the widest margin since Might And Power in 1997, carrying equal topweight of 55.5kg.

Moody didn't nominate a specific weight penalty that he would deem appropriate for Incentivise who is also currently handicapped with 55.5kg for the Melbourne Cup.

However, Moody cited the example of Verry Elleegant only receiving a half-kilo penalty for beating English Derby winner Anthony Van Dyck in last year's Caulfield Cup, raising her Melbourne Cup weight to 55.5kg.

"I really don't know, it's got to be weighed up against his likely opposition," Moody said. "What are we going to get penalised for beating a horse (Nonconformist) that won a trial leading into it that's probably got a doubt on him at a mile-and-a-half?"

WATCH: Incentivise's Caulfield Cup win

Carpenter stated that Incentivise would have been handicapped with 53kg or 53.5kg for the Cups if not for winning his first Group 1 race, the Makybe Diva Stakes (1600m), two days ahead of the releasing his weights for the Caulfield and Melbourne Cups.

Incentivise has since won the $1m G1 TAB Turnbull Stakes (2000m) under set weights and penalties, where he escaped any penalty for the Cups, and then yesterday's Caulfield Cup.

Incentivise defeated last year's Melbourne Cup fifth placegetter Persan in this month's Turnbull Stakes and Caulfield Cup by 5.25 lengths on each occasion, conceding 2kg and 2.5kg respectively to Persan. As things stand, Incentivise is due to concede this year's Caulfield Cup third placegetter Persan 2.5kg in the Melbourne Cup.

“We were probably weighted up to our best at that point in time (the release of handicap weights) and I understand from my conversations with Greg (Carpenter) that if they get that pretty steep penalty going into the Caulfield Cup it probably lessens their risk of a severe penalty going to the Melbourne Cup," Moody said.

"He (Carpenter) is very good at his job but we won't crucify the horse and I'm confident that he won't.

"He will give us a chance to take the horse there to win it (the Melbourne Cup) if the horse is well enough, I'm hopeful of," Moody added.

The heftiest weight penalties for Caulfield Cup winners in the Melbourne Cup were issued by Carpenter's predecessor Jim Bowler.

Bowler is the longest serving Cups handicapper in history, issuing the weights over a 25-year period from 1980 to 2004 and routinely would give a couple of extra kilos to the Caulfield Cup winner ahead of the Melbourne Cup.

Bowler gave a 3kg or 3.5kg weight penalty on six occasions, with Gurner's Lane (1982), Doriemus (1995) and Might And Power (1997) successfully carrying the Caulfield Cup weight penalty in the Melbourne Cup.

MELBOURNE CUP PENALTIES TO CAULFIELD CUP WINNERS SINCE 1980

2020 – VERRY ELLEEGANT (5M) +0.5kg to 55.5kg, 7th.
2019 – MER DE GLACE (5H) +1kg to 56kg, 6th.
2018 – BEST SOLUTION (5H) No penalty to 57.5kg, 8th.
2017 – BOOM TIME (6G) +1kg to 53kg, 15th.
2016 – JAMEKA (4M) +1.5kg to 54.5kg, 15th.
2015 – MONGOLIAN KHAN (4H) +1kg to 56kg, Did not run.
2014 – ADMIRE RAKTI (7H) +0.5kg to 58.5kg, 22nd.
2013 – FAWKNER (6G) +1.5kg to 54.5kg, 6th.
2012 – DUNADEN (7H) +1kg to 59kg, 14th.
2011 – SOUTHERN SPEED (4M) Not entered in Melbourne Cup.
2010 – DESCARADO (4G) +1.5kg to 54kg, Failed to finish.
2009 – VIEWED (6H) +1kg to 58kg, 7th.
2008 – ALL THE GOOD (6H) +2kg to 55kg, Did not run.
2007 – MASTER O'REILLY (5G) +1.5kg to 53kg, 8th.
2006 – TAWQEET (5H) +2kg to 55.5kg, 19th.
2005 – RAILINGS (4G) +2kg to 54kg, 14th.
2004 – ELVSTROEM (4H) +2.5kg to 56.5kg, 4th.
2003 – MUMMIFY (4G) +2.5kg to 55kg, Did not run.
2002 – NORTHERLY (6G) +2kg to 60kg, Did not run.
2001 – ETHEREAL (4M) +2kg to 52kg, Won.
2000 – DIATRIBE (4H) +2.5kg to 55kg, 11th.
1999 – SKY HEIGHTS (4G) +1.5kg to 56.5kg, 17th.
1998 – TAUFAN'S MELODY (8G) +2.5kg to 56kg, 4th^.
1997 – MIGHT AND POWER (4G) +3.5kg to 56kg, Won.
1996 – ARCTIC SCENT (4M) +3kg to 51.5kg, 12nd.
1995 – DORIEMUS (5G) +3kg to 54.5kg, Won.
1994 – PARIS LANE (4G) +3kg to 54.5kg, 2nd.
1993 – FRAAR (6H) +2kg to 56kg, 13th.
1992 – MANNERISM (4M) Not entered in Melbourne Cup.
1991 – LET'S ELOPE (4M) +2.5kg to 51kg, Won.
1990 – SYDESTON (5G) +2.5kg to 58.5kg, 11th.
1989 – COLE DIESEL (5G) +1kg to 53kg, 16th.
1988 – IMPOSERA (4M) Not entered in Melbourne Cup.
1987 – LORD REIMS (6G) +2.5kg to 54.5kg, Did not run.
1986 – MR LOMONDY (6G) +2kg to 56.5kg, 8th.
1985 – TRISTARC (4M) +3kg to 52.5kg, 8th.
1984 – AFFINITY (5G) +2.5kg to 55.5kg, 6th.
1983 – HAYAI (4H) +2kg to 55kg, 15th.
1982 – GURNER'S LANE (4G) +3kg to 56kg, Won.
1981 – SILVER BOUNTY (4H) Not entered in Melbourne Cup.
1980 – MING DYNASTY (7G) No penalty to 58kg, 17th.

* Jameka had 0.5kg penalty and weights were raised 0.5kg in Caulfield Cup.
** Master O'Reilly won Caulfield Cup with 50kg, 3kg penalty - 1.5kg for Herbert Power and 1.5kg for Caulfield Cup.
*** Cole Diesel won Caulfield Cup with 50kg, 3.5kg penalty - 2.5kg for Toorak Handicap and 1kg for Caulfield Cup (Cole Diesel had 49.5kg in Melbourne Cup).

 

[holy ravioli]

He'll get 2kg and run imo.

[Chief Stipe]

O.5 kg

[Gospel of Judas]

1.5 kg

[curious]

2.5kgs

 

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, curious said:

2.5kgs

That would be unheard of in recent times.  If that happened the handicapper doesn't think that this years Caulfield Cup was the crappiest in memory.

[Chief Stipe]

Gets 1.5kg.

Melbourne Cup

Carpenter: “57kg is a very challenging weight”

Incentivise winning the Caulfield Cup (Photo by Vince Caligiuri/Getty Images)

 

 

By Gilbert Gardiner
03:08pm • 18 October 2021

Comments

INCENTIVISE would join the legend Makybe Diva as the only horse to win the Melbourne Cup, if successful, with more than 57kg in the past five decades.

Not since Gold And Black in 1977, Bart Cummings’ fifth of a record 12 Cups, has the winner lumped 57kg.

Makybe Diva famously carried 58kg in 2005, winning an unprecedented third-straight Melbourne Cup.

Racing Victoria chief handicapper Greg Carpenter on Monday announced a 1.5kg penalty for the Peter Moody-trained Caulfield Cup winner Incentivise, taking the progressive galloper to 57kg, ahead of the first Tuesday in November.

“We are comfortable giving him 1.5kg, taking him to 57kg, is the right assessment,” Carpenter said.

“If you look at the 11 horses that have done the double there’s only one that’s carried 57kg or more in winning the Melbourne Cup, Rising Fast (1954).

“Galilee (1966) was one of the great champions and he had 56.5kg, Might And Power (1997) was astonishing in his Caulfield Cup victory and he carried 56kg.

“People get very excited about the win on Saturday but 57kg is a very challenging weight.

“When we decide a penalty we have to sit back a little bit from the excitement of seeing such a rapidly improving horse and make an assessment that’s fair to him and also his fellow competitors.”

Incentivise has an opportunity to become only the 12th horse in history to complete the Cups double and first since Kiwi mare Ethereal in 2001.

14 Caulfield Cup winners after Ethereal have competed in the Melbourne Cup, but not one of them has finished in the top three.

The penalty sees Incentivise join Verry Elleegant and Gold Trip, both set to run in Saturday’s $5m Group 1 W.S Cox Plate, and star import Spanish Mission on the weight scale.

Reigning Melbourne Cup winner Twilight Payment is the top weight with 58kg.

Incentivise pummeled Caulfield Cup opposition last Saturday, coming away to win by three and a half lengths under a hold from jockey Brett Prebble.

It was the gelding’s third straight win – all at Group 1 level – since joining Moody’s Pakenham-based stable.

“Quite astonishing a horse that only won his maiden six months ago now has 57kg in a Melbourne Cup and on the same level as some of Australia and Europe’s best stayers,” Carpenter said.

“He was very impressive winning the Caulfield Cup on Saturday…probably (along with Jameka 2016) the most impressive win since Might And Power won by 7.5 lengths and broke the track record and then went on to win the Melbourne Cup double in a very close finish with Doriemus.”

Might And Power received a record 3.5kg penalty for the Caulfield Cup win, which took the destructive front-runner to 56kg in the Melbourne Cup.

Carpenter informed Moody about the penalty prior to the announcement.

“Peter felt it was very fairly treated, it certainly was around the mark he expected,” Carpenter said.

“I think there’s no doubt he’ll run (in the Cup) as long as the horse is fit and healthy on the day.

“They’ll take up the challenge and I wish them every success.

“The purpose of the penalty is not to get him beaten, it’s to allow him to be competitive and have an opportunity to create history.”

 

 

 

[curious]

If you'd averaged your guess and mine, we'd have been dead on.