GLENTHORNE.....You decide.

[Walt]

Always important to keep all your owners happy. I doubt the owners of Glenthorne will be that disappointed. They got another cheque in a nothing race and with the knowledge their horse will win decent dollars in future races. The owners of Wild Card will be smiling now after a previous lean run. Excellent result for the stable.

 

Average races get my attention for a few reasons. The first is to learn about a horses ability and form so I know where to put my dollars when the higher value races arrive. I won't wager on these lesser races as I have no confidence the race matters enough to the owner / trainer to prioritize. That situation is further complicated when stables have multiple runners in a race and or there are multiple drivers from the same family engaged in said race.

 

I was impressed by Glenthorne when it won at Cambridge on Christmas Eve 2021. He lead all the way and won for fun in good time. 

 

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=294027&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

 

Anyone who watched that race would know for certain the best way to drive this horse if you wanted a result.

 

It's last two starts resulted in beating the stablemate when leading all the way and running second to his stablemate also when leading.

 

When I saw him engaged last night I paid attention. Having two stablemates in this average race didn't go unnoticed. The one thing you could say with confidence was that Glenthorne would be leading and very unlikely to hand up.....except of course if / when a stablemate came calling. 

 

He started at $1.70 so many eyes would be on him.

 

I was shocked to see Glenthorne handing up the premium spot in front when history had proven that to be the best place for the horse to be. The runner he gave the lead away to was his out of form stablemate Wild Card driven by David Butcher. It should be pointed out that the previous time the two horses met, Glenthorne won from the front and Wild Card finished last. 

 

Prior to handing up here, it "appeared" that Butcher had something to say to White prior to taking the lead. 

 

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=295205&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

 

I also question the vigour or lack thereof White showed on Glenthorne in the home straight. It looked perfunctory to my eye.

 

My two questions.

 

1) Would White have gifted the lead away had Wild Card not been his stablemate?

 

2) Would White have shown more vigour in the home straight on the $1.70 fav had the horse in front of him not been his stablemate?

 

 

The only conclusion I could arrive at here was this race was bereft of authenticity from Glenthorne and White. 

 

When the alleged Stewards asked their perfunctory question, this was stated. 

 

"WILD CARD - when questioned regarding the improved performance Trainer A Donnelly stated that the gelding had been racing without much luck in recent starts and had been able to dictate terms in tonight's event"

 

Haha....oh the irony. 

 

Of course, no questions asked of the $1.70 runner up. 

Looking forward to the return of authentic racing. 

 

[Chief Stipe]

 

[Brodie]

38 minutes ago, Walt said:

Always important to keep all your owners happy. I doubt the owners of Glenthorne will be that disappointed. They got another cheque in a nothing race and with the knowledge their horse will win decent dollars in future races. The owners of Wild Card will be smiling now after a previous lean run. Excellent result for the stable.

 

Average races get my attention for a few reasons. The first is to learn about a horses ability and form so I know where to put my dollars when the higher value races arrive. I won't wager on these lesser races as I have no confidence the race matters enough to the owner / trainer to prioritize. That situation is further complicated when stables have multiple runners in a race and or there are multiple drivers from the same family engaged in said race.

 

I was impressed by Glenthorne when it won at Cambridge on Christmas Eve 2021. He lead all the way and won for fun in good time. 

 

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=294027&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

 

Anyone who watched that race would know for certain the best way to drive this horse if you wanted a result.

 

It's last two starts resulted in beating the stablemate when leading all the way and running second to his stablemate also when leading.

 

When I saw him engaged last night I paid attention. Having two stablemates in this average race didn't go unnoticed. The one thing you could say with confidence was that Glenthorne would be leading and very unlikely to hand up.....except of course if / when a stablemate came calling. 

 

He started at $1.70 so many eyes would be on him.

 

I was shocked to see Glenthorne handing up the premium spot in front when history had proven that to be the best place for the horse to be. The runner he gave the lead away to was his out of form stablemate Wild Card driven by David Butcher. It should be pointed out that the previous time the two horses met, Glenthorne won from the front and Wild Card finished last. 

 

Prior to handing up here, it "appeared" that Butcher had something to say to White prior to taking the lead. 

 

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=295205&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

 

I also question the vigour or lack thereof White showed on Glenthorne in the home straight. It looked perfunctory to my eye.

 

My two questions.

 

1) Would White have gifted the lead away had Wild Card not been his stablemate?

 

2) Would White have shown more vigour in the home straight on the $1.70 fav had the horse in front of him not been his stablemate?

 

 

The only conclusion I could arrive at here was this race was bereft of authenticity from Glenthorne and White. 

 

When the alleged Stewards asked their perfunctory question, this was stated. 

 

"WILD CARD - when questioned regarding the improved performance Trainer A Donnelly stated that the gelding had been racing without much luck in recent starts and had been able to dictate terms in tonight's event"

 

Haha....oh the irony. 

 

Of course, no questions asked of the $1.70 runner up. 

Looking forward to the return of authentic racing. 

 

Walt, my punting/investing is basically totally the opposite of yours which is good.

I generally only wager on looser class racing and do not bother with tighter class racing or big stake races.

Have always found it far easier to consistently make money, however we will both work with what works for us.

I understand what you are saying in regards to Glenthorne handing up to its stablemate but I do not think there was team driving involved.

Wild Card was pressing Glenthorne extremely hard and David Butcher wanted the lead at all costs.

Reality is that both horses if they carried on the way they were going would both stop!

It was not  as if Glenthorne handed the lead up meekly by the look of it.

Personally think Wild Card was the better horse on the night, and do not think anymore in it!!

[Chief Stipe]

I'm not sure if there is anything to see here.  Glenthorne was being tapped up and on a loose rein to hold its position when challenged.  Then handed up when he saw it was Wild Card.  Got the perfect trail and when showed the passing lane wasn't quick enough to pass the Wild Card.

As for "showing more vigour" in the straight - that's a problem with the whip rules - you can't show any vigour!!!!  Imagine what punters would say if whips were banned!  In that case Glenthorne probably wouldn't have handed up and then we would have seen a speed duel and one or both drivers fined and/or disqualified.

[JTeaz]

2 hours ago, Walt said:

Always important to keep all your owners happy. I doubt the owners of Glenthorne will be that disappointed. They got another cheque in a nothing race and with the knowledge their horse will win decent dollars in future races. The owners of Wild Card will be smiling now after a previous lean run. Excellent result for the stable.

 

Average races get my attention for a few reasons. The first is to learn about a horses ability and form so I know where to put my dollars when the higher value races arrive. I won't wager on these lesser races as I have no confidence the race matters enough to the owner / trainer to prioritize. That situation is further complicated when stables have multiple runners in a race and or there are multiple drivers from the same family engaged in said race.

 

I was impressed by Glenthorne when it won at Cambridge on Christmas Eve 2021. He lead all the way and won for fun in good time. 

 

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=294027&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

 

Anyone who watched that race would know for certain the best way to drive this horse if you wanted a result.

 

It's last two starts resulted in beating the stablemate when leading all the way and running second to his stablemate also when leading.

 

When I saw him engaged last night I paid attention. Having two stablemates in this average race didn't go unnoticed. The one thing you could say with confidence was that Glenthorne would be leading and very unlikely to hand up.....except of course if / when a stablemate came calling. 

 

He started at $1.70 so many eyes would be on him.

 

I was shocked to see Glenthorne handing up the premium spot in front when history had proven that to be the best place for the horse to be. The runner he gave the lead away to was his out of form stablemate Wild Card driven by David Butcher. It should be pointed out that the previous time the two horses met, Glenthorne won from the front and Wild Card finished last. 

 

Prior to handing up here, it "appeared" that Butcher had something to say to White prior to taking the lead. 

 

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=295205&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

 

I also question the vigour or lack thereof White showed on Glenthorne in the home straight. It looked perfunctory to my eye.

 

My two questions.

 

1) Would White have gifted the lead away had Wild Card not been his stablemate?

 

2) Would White have shown more vigour in the home straight on the $1.70 fav had the horse in front of him not been his stablemate?

 

 

The only conclusion I could arrive at here was this race was bereft of authenticity from Glenthorne and White. 

 

When the alleged Stewards asked their perfunctory question, this was stated. 

 

"WILD CARD - when questioned regarding the improved performance Trainer A Donnelly stated that the gelding had been racing without much luck in recent starts and had been able to dictate terms in tonight's event"

 

Haha....oh the irony. 

 

Of course, no questions asked of the $1.70 runner up. 

Looking forward to the return of authentic racing. 

 

Best post in ages

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, JTeaz said:

Best post in ages

Why?

[Walt]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Walt, my punting/investing is basically totally the opposite of yours which is good.

I generally only wager on looser class racing and do not bother with tighter class racing or big stake races.

Have always found it far easier to consistently make money, however we will both work with what works for us.

I understand what you are saying in regards to Glenthorne handing up to its stablemate but I do not think there was team driving involved.

Wild Card was pressing Glenthorne extremely hard and David Butcher wanted the lead at all costs.

Reality is that both horses if they carried on the way they were going would both stop!

It was not  as if Glenthorne handed the lead up meekly by the look of it.

Personally think Wild Card was the better horse on the night, and do not think anymore in it!!

Hey Brodie,

I've read many of your posts over the years and as a rule, enjoy your input. I tip my hat to anyone that can consistently make money on the punt especially if that is due to your own knowledge base and homework. Chur.

For me, it's a numbers game as much as anything else. When I was a young fella certain words and phrases invariably came with a tip. Bla bla is nailed down for today. Bla bla is trying today etc. Now I can tell a horse is nailed down and the race a priority without getting the bully. Just look at the stake and prestige of a race. On Jewels day for example you know that every horse in every race is nailed down and highly motivated to win. From there it comes down to ability, form and how you think the race will likely unfold. 

I don't think there was anything contrived between Butcher, White and Donnelly. Wild Card would likely have stayed happily in the one one trail had the parked horse not galloped. David Butcher is a quick thinker and decided the top was his best option. Glenthorne didn't just pull up and gift the lead to his stablemate but I feel that's a red herring. Butcher is a Cambridge man who knows the ability, form and race pattern of most horses in his area, especially his rivals. Glenthorne is a noted front runner. His charge Wild Card ran motherless last at it's previous attempt against Glenthorne but despite that he had a play for the top against a noted front runner. I find that telling. I also find it telling that White on the 1.70 leader that excels in front would surrender the lead and control under any circumstances. I feel very confident that had the race been a 100k feature race, he would never have handed up without throwing everything at his charge. He would also have been very aware the horse challenging him was in fact the stablemate. The moment he handed up was the exact same moment he lost the race. If you go back to his dominant Christmas Eve front running victory, you'd be shocked to see him hand up.  

The gentle approach White adopted in the home straight was also inappropriate on a 1.70 pop. He easily settled for second placing. Wasn't a good look to my eye. 

[Walt]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not sure if there is anything to see here.  Glenthorne was being tapped up and on a loose rein to hold its position when challenged.  Then handed up when he saw it was Wild Card.  Got the perfect trail and when showed the passing lane wasn't quick enough to pass the Wild Card.

As for "showing more vigour" in the straight - that's a problem with the whip rules - you can't show any vigour!!!!  Imagine what punters would say if whips were banned!  In that case Glenthorne probably wouldn't have handed up and then we would have seen a speed duel and one or both drivers fined and/or disqualified.

I respect your perspective Chief but I see it differently. Many horses don't enjoy being in the trail and having the leader dictate when and how. If leading is by far the best option for Glenthorne, why would he allow that option to be removed and replaced with control and outcome being in the hands of David Butcher?

I maintain White would not have handed up without a meaningful battle if the race was a meaningful event and the horse wanting the front was not the out of form stablemate. 

[Walt]

39 minutes ago, JTeaz said:

Best post in ages

Cheers Jason.

I don't feel I'm being personal with those involved. I know you love the game as I do but authenticity is critically important, especially on public elects. Had Wild Card been from another stable and Glenthorne not been such a noted front runner, I wouldn't have said anything. 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Walt said:

I respect your perspective Chief but I see it differently. Many horses don't enjoy being in the trail and having the leader dictate when and how. If leading is by far the best option for Glenthorne, why would he allow that option to be removed and replaced with control and outcome being in the hands of David Butcher?

I maintain White would not have handed up without a meaningful battle if the race was a meaningful event and the horse wanting the front was not the out of form stablemate. 

But if you look at the Drivers hands and reins before he handed up Glenthorne was struggling to hold its position.  Better to hand up to a stablemate with a round to go than fight each other.

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Walt said:

Hey Brodie,

I've read many of your posts over the years and as a rule, enjoy your input. I tip my hat to anyone that can consistently make money on the punt especially if that is due to your own knowledge base and homework. Chur.

For me, it's a numbers game as much as anything else. When I was a young fella certain words and phrases invariably came with a tip. Bla bla is nailed down for today. Bla bla is trying today etc. Now I can tell a horse is nailed down and the race a priority without getting the bully. Just look at the stake and prestige of a race. On Jewels day for example you know that every horse in every race is nailed down and highly motivated to win. From there it comes down to ability, form and how you think the race will likely unfold. 

I don't think there was anything contrived between Butcher, White and Donnelly. Wild Card would likely have stayed happily in the one one trail had the parked horse not galloped. David Butcher is a quick thinker and decided the top was his best option. Glenthorne didn't just pull up and gift the lead to his stablemate but I feel that's a red herring. Butcher is a Cambridge man who knows the ability, form and race pattern of most horses in his area, especially his rivals. Glenthorne is a noted front runner. His charge Wild Card ran motherless last at it's previous attempt against Glenthorne but despite that he had a play for the top against a noted front runner. I find that telling. I also find it telling that White on the 1.70 leader that excels in front would surrender the lead and control under any circumstances. I feel very confident that had the race been a 100k feature race, he would never have handed up without throwing everything at his charge. He would also have been very aware the horse challenging him was in fact the stablemate. The moment he handed up was the exact same moment he lost the race. If you go back to his dominant Christmas Eve front running victory, you'd be shocked to see him hand up.  

The gentle approach White adopted in the home straight was also inappropriate on a 1.70 pop. He easily settled for second placing. Wasn't a good look to my eye. 

Walt, you are an astute man from what you wrote and agree with basically all of  what you have now written.

The race was totally altered when the Barry Purdon horse galloped and would have left Wild Card parked otherwise I am sure David butcher would have just sat one one!

Matthew White handed up I believe solely because of the speed that Butcher was moving and   must’ve thought that he cou,d out-sprint Wild Card in the straight.

Yes I believe if Glenthorne hadve stayed in front without being heavily challenged, then he wouldve probably won as he is a better horse in front!

What actually annoys me more is when you have backed a horse and u are one one and you are left parked due to a driver letting the parked horse have the front!!!!!!!

Anyway very fair posting and look forward to many more!

[Walt]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

But if you look at the Drivers hands and reins before he handed up Glenthorne was struggling to hold its position.  Better to hand up to a stablemate with a round to go than fight each other.

If what you're saying was correct Chief, I'd agree but we have a different take on things. I refute Glenthorne was struggling to hold it's position. He's a noted front front runner who got the front much easier than he did with his hollow win on Christmas Eve. I believe White was holding the front comfortably and was not expecting anyone to have a dig at that point. He was looking to give the horse easy sectionals until it mattered most. Not only did Butcher have designs on the front but he did so with momentum. That caught White napping. He still had time to hold the front when he had a challenge but steadied when he saw who it was. White's actions prevented it being an authentic race Chief. More like musical chairs. I also believe Butcher said something to White moments prior to him conceding the front. Would you expect to see that all unfold in a 200k G1 race? A punters $ is worth the same in both races.