Thomass Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Talk about a take over.... The systems must be so good he's the only trainer an owner wants? https://twitter.com/DufficyRon/status/1023749121260187648?s=20 Even if he does use frusemide....I wonder if our top trainers use the same systems....Lasix? Really it should be banned in training too shouldn't it? Its a pitiful site watching a Thoroughbred standing in a corner dripping with sweat.... What would happen if the animal rights people published photos of that...and the accompanying story of what Thoroughbreds have to go through when satisfying the wants of an owner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 How is it a pitiful sight (not the spelling Tank)? Many horses sweat profusely before a race however what would be more damning - photos of a horse sweating supposedly from Lasix or those of a horse bleeding profusely form its nostrils? How many race bleeders has Waller had compared to other trainers? All the science shows that nearly all horses bleed to some degree when under race exertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 There's a hell of difference between a Lasix sweater and a free sweater... Im picking he's not concerned with the bleeding aspect as much as the fact he can reduce the weight off them to work them harder.... Its banned in HK for very good reasons....Punters should have the right to know a neddy is being trained on Lasix.. ...if it happens here...Punters should also have that knowledge obviously ...if it affects performance in trading its going to have that run on affect on race day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Thomass said: There's a hell of difference between a Lasix sweater and a free sweater... Im picking he's not concerned with the bleeding aspect as much as the fact he can reduce the weight off them to work them harder.... Its banned in HK for very good reasons....Punters should have the right to know a neddy is being trained on Lasix.. ...if it happens here...Punters should also have that knowledge obviously ...if it affects performance in trading its going to have that run on affect on race day... Tank you don't seem to understand much about horse physiology. They can be worked harder and not risk bleeding. You don't dehydrate a horse to work it harder. What are the "very good reasons" it is banned in Hong Kong? Or is that one of your blanket no facts to back it statement? Waller has been quite open about his Lasix use. It is very rare for any of his horses not to be ready to race when they do race. I can't recall the last time he said "it needed the run"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Work them more efficiently then Obviously if some are training on Lasix and others not...it screws up the comparitive times...Punters there said "Yea Na we run the show" Here were not allowed to know the difference in a 50L H 11 track ffs Thanks Cammo Are you f in kidding me? There was general shock when it was found he was using it in training...after one of his returned a positive in a Group race... Only then did he become "quite open" wake up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Work them more efficiently then Obviously if some are training on Lasix and others not...it screws up the comparitive times...Punters there said "Yea Na we run the show" Here were not allowed to know the difference in a 50L H 11 track ffs Thanks Cammo Are you f in kidding me? There was general shock when it was found he was using it in training...after one of his returned a positive in a Group race... Only then did he become "quite open" wake up It's legal Tank. Does it matter if the punter knows or doesn't know? Does it increase the animal's ability? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 What comparative times? Training gallops? You surely don't use training gallop times as part of your assessment do you? If they gallop faster because they are 15kgs lighter as a result of Lasix administration, that surely can't make any difference on raceday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 hours ago, Thomass said: Talk about a take over.... The systems must be so good he's the only trainer an owner wants? https://twitter.com/DufficyRon/status/1023749121260187648?s=20 Even if he does use frusemide....I wonder if our top trainers use the same systems....Lasix? Really it should be banned in training too shouldn't it? Its a pitiful site watching a Thoroughbred standing in a corner dripping with sweat.... What would happen if the animal rights people published photos of that...and the accompanying story of what Thoroughbreds have to go through when satisfying the wants of an owner? Please plain the bit about the horse "standing in the corner dripping with sweat" are you saying that is what Lasix does to a horse? trainers here can use lasix, I think the with holding time is 4 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 15 hours ago, curious said: What comparative times? Training gallops? You surely don't use training gallop times as part of your assessment do you? If they gallop faster because they are 15kgs lighter as a result of Lasix administration, that surely can't make any difference on raceday. Do you know anything about HK?? Apart from the horrendous apartment prices and the cost of a Who Flung Dung at the local stable Chinese take away outlet... ...the cost of ignoring HK Punters doesn't bare thinking about... ...and they call the shots ....and they're not going to put up with trainers giving drugs out for some training sessions and others not ..again pretty obvious I would have thought ...and HK officials don't want to be the pariahs of the world..like the yanks are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) My understanding is lasix is a banned substance in NZ and Aussie? Isn't that the reason bleeders are sent to the USA so they can use lasix on them? Of is it legal here so long as it is not in the system at race time? Edited July 31, 2018 by Reefton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 No it's allowed to be used in training in Aus. and as BL thinks also here... Waller's systems were found out when his horseG1 winner Junoob returned a positive to Lasix... ....probably too far out from the race to have had any effect though.. Punters should have access to all treatments like this... ...and why it was banned in HK...where Punters run the show ...and that's the way it should be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 isn't disclosure of treatments the main reason why the Singapore Turf Club pays all vet bills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Reefton said: My understanding is lasix is a banned substance in NZ and Aussie? Isn't that the reason bleeders are sent to the USA so they can use lasix on them? Of is it legal here so long as it is not in the system at race time? No not banned you can train on it but not race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Thomass said: Do you know anything about HK?? Apart from the horrendous apartment prices and the cost of a Who Flung Dung at the local stable Chinese take away outlet... ...the cost of ignoring HK Punters doesn't bare thinking about... ...and they call the shots ....and they're not going to put up with trainers giving drugs out for some training sessions and others not ..again pretty obvious I would have thought ...and HK officials don't want to be the pariahs of the world..like the yanks are Tank Hong Kong is a closed system. Everything is monitored in and out of that system. In NZ and AUS we have open systems. Less so in the Met centres in Victoria and NSW. To monitor every input in NZ and AUS would be uneconomic. Suck it up or just bet on Hong Kong. I guess Blinkers on or off mean squat after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Thomass said: No it's allowed to be used in training in Aus. and as BL thinks also here... Waller's systems were found out when his horseG1 winner Junoob returned a positive to Lasix... ....probably too far out from the race to have had any effect though.. Punters should have access to all treatments like this... ...and why it was banned in HK...where Punters run the show ...and that's the way it should be Still waiting for you to explain the "standing in the corner dripping with sweat " comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 16 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Tank Hong Kong is a closed system. Everything is monitored in and out of that system. In NZ and AUS we have open systems. Less so in the Met centres in Victoria and NSW. To monitor every input in NZ and AUS would be uneconomic. Suck it up or just bet on Hong Kong. I guess Blinkers on or off mean squat after all. Listen up stipey Do you know why HK is THE greatest punting jurisdiction in the World? Of course its the disclosure to Punters of almost EVERYTHING Besides, it's a bad look to be using drugs like LASIX, a known masking agent ...we used to have the 7 day rules here...bring that back Nd double besides In this easy click age...just have a click button on majors like LASIX... land let the punters know who's using it and who's not in the run up to an event... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 16 hours ago, Blossom lady said: Still waiting for you to explain the "standing in the corner dripping with sweat " comment Sorry petal... ...it affects horses in different ways Ive seen a lasix horse sweating like a prostaglandin neddy... whatever...in this day and age of PC and animal rights Its not a good look if the AR people find out about things such as LASIX administration...banned on race day...a masking agent as well ...yet still allowed to be used in training...wtf? ...it stands alongside whip use as a future no no if we want the new generation to accept Thoroughbred racing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Thomass said: Sorry petal... ...it affects horses in different ways Ive seen a lasix horse sweating like a prostaglandin neddy... whatever...in this day and age of PC and animal rights Its not a good look if the AR people find out about things such as LASIX administration...banned on race day...a masking agent as well ...yet still allowed to be used in training...wtf? ...it stands alongside whip use as a future no no if we want the new generation to accept Thoroughbred racing... Rubbish Tank. If Lasix is administered within the rules and correctly it is actually beneficial to the welfare of the horse. It's masking ability is because it is a diuretic. That is it increases the volume of urine theoretically lowering the concentrations of other drugs. However with current testing regimes coupled with the withholding period Lasix when administered during training is unlikely to mask anything that may have a performance enhancing effect on race day. So alarm people with misinformation if you wish Tank which will do nothing to attract the "new generation to accept Thoroughbred racing".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 You've seen ONE horse sweating after Lasix administration and generalised that to the whole population? And, you don't even know the sweating was caused by the Lasix. Next you'll be saying you've seen one horse win with blinkers first time and draw some remarkable conclusion that you can also apply that to the whole population. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Thomass said: Sorry petal... ...it affects horses in different ways Ive seen a lasix horse sweating like a prostaglandin neddy... whatever...in this day and age of PC and animal rights Its not a good look if the AR people find out about things such as LASIX administration...banned on race day...a masking agent as well ...yet still allowed to be used in training...wtf? ...it stands alongside whip use as a future no no if we want the new generation to accept Thoroughbred racing... You are pretty clueless really. You have seen 1 horse sweat who is a lasix horse. Had the said horse just received the lasix? i've administered lasix myself for training purposes and also seen more than 1 or 2 treated by the vets and have never ever seen 1 sweat ! i have heard of the odd horse who is allergic to lasix and that those horses were never treated again with lasix. Maybe that was the case here. with a 4 day with holding time I don't think lasix will be masking too many race day drugs! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gospel of Judas Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Seems Aussie has joined in with NZ in a race to spend my punting dollar elsewhere!. Greenies and do gooders will not like this one bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 18 hours ago, Blossom lady said: You are pretty clueless really. You have seen 1 horse sweat who is a lasix horse. Had the said horse just received the lasix? i've administered lasix myself for training purposes and also seen more than 1 or 2 treated by the vets and have never ever seen 1 sweat ! i have heard of the odd horse who is allergic to lasix and that those horses were never treated again with lasix. Maybe that was the case here. with a 4 day with holding time I don't think lasix will be masking too many race day drugs! What's clueless is the Racing Industry thinking they can use drugs like lasix as a 'training' aid... As I've said HK Punters have vetoed its use in any way there and obviously that's paid dividends many times over... ...it's skews performance and Australasian Punters have every right to know who's using what performance enhancing drugs at ANY TIME... The old 7 day rule should come into play here...and Punters should have access to that information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 21 hours ago, curious said: Next you'll be saying you've seen one horse win with blinkers first time and draw some remarkable conclusion that you can also apply that to the whole population. 30 minutes ago, Thomass said: As I've said HK Punters have vetoed its use in any way there and obviously that's paid dividends many times over... Now he seems to be correlating the non use of lasix with the performance of the HK racing industry. Is there no end to this sort of stuff. No wonder he can't understand why all his ideas are flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 Of course it does...what planet are you on? Its part of the TOTAL information dissemination that's so vital to making HK the punting Mecca that it is...Punters demanded full disclosure of LASIX or nothing... The HK authorities said NOTHING But you wouldn't have a f in clue what that means Just ask the teacher at the English as a second language course you're on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Stuff the HKJC. They don't have a clue. I will say that Lasix probably played a big part in saving my life last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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