Chief Stipe Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Victorian bonus scheme launched | RACING.COM www.racing.com Maiden winners in Victoria are soon to be rewarded with an extra $2000 bonus payment with the introduction of the Ladbrokes Owners Incentive Scheme from next month. The scheme, which offers up to $9 million in bonuses to Victorian owners over the next three years, begins from September 1, 2023 with eligible payments across some 1500 professional maiden flat races annually in Victoria. The bonus payments will be available to the owners of the winning horse who have registered with Ladbrokes Racing Club, with payments prorated to an individual’s ownership percentage of the horse. Once registered, owners will be eligible for bonus payments relating to all current and future horses in which they have an ownership interest when their horse wins its maiden flat race in Victoria. Any registered thoroughbred owner can register for the scheme, and bonus eligibility is not dependent on the owner holding a Ladbrokes wagering account. Eligibility is not dependent on the entire ownership group being registered for the scheme. Owners of a winning maiden horse who are registered for the scheme will be paid by Racing Victoria (RV) at the same time as they receive their prizemoney. RV Executive General Manger – Racing, Matt Welsh, said: “We are thrilled to partner with Ladbrokes on this fantastic initiative which will inject up to $3 million in extra bonuses per year into Victorian racing. “Owners are essential to a vibrant racing industry, and this incentive scheme is another great way to reward those supporting Victorian racing. “Owners winning a standard $27,000 country maiden in Victoria can now pocket $2,000 on top of the $14,850 first prize if registered for the scheme. The boosted $16,850 first prize means the maiden will be worth the equivalent of a $30,600 race for those winning owners. Individual owners and/or syndicate managers will need to register themselves or their syndicate and their maiden horse(s) via www.ladbrokes.com.au/lois prior to its win to be eligible for the bonus payment. Entain Group Australia (owner of the Ladbrokes brand) CEO, Dean Shannon, said: “Ladbrokes is really proud of our innovative Ladbrokes Owners Incentive Scheme. “While there has been a lot of focus on prizemoney gains at the top end of town over the past few years, this is recognition that for every horse and ownership group, just getting to the track and getting that first win on the board is a thrilling experience, be that in town or in the bush.’’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 I think a 'bonus' system for losing owners would make more sense. Some sort of ballot for owners of maidens and lower grade races that have not received a cheque in 7/8 starts.🏇 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 2 hours ago, holy ravioli said: I think a 'bonus' system for losing owners would make more sense. Some sort of ballot for owners of maidens and lower grade races that have not received a cheque in 7/8 starts.🏇 Geez are you a Labour Party Candidate - "let's reward mediocrity!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 26 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Geez are you a Labour Party Candidate - "let's reward mediocrity!" No lets help the battlers ,paying big money to race a ...horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: No lets help the battlers ,paying big money to race a ...horse. Do you think they could be battling because they have slow horses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Do you think they could be battling because they have slow horses? Supposedly the same costs to race a fast horse as a slow horse.More happy owners,the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 59 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Supposedly the same costs to race a fast horse as a slow horse.More happy owners,the better. All mine have been fast. The problem I had was that you'd win a lot of races and still be behind. Your approach wouldn't help anyone. Probably make it worse as there would be more slow horses to get around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: All mine have been fast. The problem I had was that you'd win a lot of races and still be behind. Your approach wouldn't help anyone. Probably make it worse as there would be more slow horses to get around. No good being fast...for 800m!🙃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 17 hours ago, holy ravioli said: No good being fast...for 800m!🙃 They were fast enough to win races and place stakes. A better way to aid the impoverished battler that you appear to be concerned about would be to maintain access to local training tracks rather than closing them down. Also provide free entry to races and reduce all other costs not directly related to the competitiveness of a horse I.e. provide a level playing field. Your approach is to compensate by subsidy for poor performance. Look where that approach has put the racing industry and the country for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 The other problem with your approach is that it won't improve the quality of the fields and by extrapolation the attractiveness of our betting product. I'm surprised you are not promoting that horses racing for the top stables have to carry 2kg weight penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: They were fast enough to win races and place stakes. A better way to aid the impoverished battler that you appear to be concerned about would be to maintain access to local training tracks rather than closing them down. Also provide free entry to races and reduce all other costs not directly related to the competitiveness of a horse I.e. provide a level playing field. Your approach is to compensate by subsidy for poor performance. Look where that approach has put the racing industry and the country for that matter. Your approach is to funnel even more money to the top tiny %.Bit like your politics...lets make the few even wealthier at the expense of...the many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Your approach is to funnel even more money to the top tiny %.Bit like your politics...lets make the few even wealthier at the expense of...the many. It's called rewarding excellence. Racing is a competitive sport there should be no rewards for running last. There are no restrictions on making to to the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: It's called rewarding excellence. Racing is a competitive sport there should be no rewards for running last. There are obvious rewards for winning.If you won $55,000 instead of $50,000 it is not really material. If you were paying the costs of racing a horse(you still need numbers to makeup fields)and received a random windfall of $5000 it would be significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The other problem with your approach is that it won't improve the quality of the fields and by extrapolation the attractiveness of our betting product. Not sure your extrapolation is valid based on the data. Isn't it the evenness of fields and competitiveness of them that adds attractiveness to the betting product? Our highest quality fields are our poorest earners relative to the stakes cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: There are obvious rewards for winning.If you won $55,000 instead of $50,000 it is not really material. If you were paying the costs of racing a horse(you still need numbers to makeup fields)and received a random windfall of $5000 it would be significant. So it's a "random windfall" now? Who would get the random $5,000? Will it be drawn by lot? Will you have terms and conditions that any top stable horses that are not eligible? So in your example you reduce the winning stake by $5,000 and GIVE it to ONE other non placed horse. What about the other "battlers"? Will you reduce the winning stakes by more and "redistribute the wealth" further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Comprehension -Some sort of ballot for owners of maidens and lower grade races'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 minute ago, curious said: Not sure your extrapolation is valid based on the data. Isn't it the evenness of fields and competitiveness of them that adds attractiveness to the betting product? Our highest quality fields are our poorest earners relative to the stakes cost. The point @curious is distributing stake money to those that don't perform won't improve the quality of the fields. I'm arguing it would do the opposite. The only way @holy ravioli would not distort outcomes would be to give everyone the same amount as an appearance fee I.e. some cash for turning up. Now if the approach is to reduce top race stakes and bolster lower grade stakes e.g. reduce a Grp race by $50k and put $5k more into 10 maiden races than Holy Pasta might have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Comprehension -Some sort of ballot for owners of maidens and lower grade races'' Your terms and conditions? So in your racing nirvana impoverished battlers will be fed by a raffle system rather than performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: Your terms and conditions? So in your racing nirvana impoverished battlers will be fed by a raffle system rather than performance. I haven't formulated the terms and conds...yet.I merely floated an idea that I think has some merit. Racing is full of variables....barrier draws are a 'raffle'...are they..not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 minute ago, holy ravioli said: I haven't formulated the terms and conds...yet.I merely floated an idea that I think has some merit. I believe it has no merit. 2 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Racing is full of variables....barrier draws are a 'raffle'...are they..not? They are drawn randomly in order to counter a perceived view that some draws are better than others. I gather you are inferring that some draws are better than others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The point @curious is distributing stake money to those that don't perform won't improve the quality of the fields. I'm arguing it would do the opposite. A handicapping system is theoretically supposed to do that, so for me, I'd say fixing that so slower horses have an equal chance would both achieve HR's objective to a greater degree and make the wagering product more attractive. We do have a small amount of appearance money now (back to 10th) which seems reasonable. So, already those horses essentially race for free. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I believe it has no merit. They are drawn randomly in order to counter a perceived view that some draws are better than others. I gather you are inferring that some draws are better than others? Yes I do believe barrier draws have a bearing on races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 minute ago, holy ravioli said: Yes I do believe barrier draws have a bearing on races. Well you missed that lengthy debate on a number of forums. If I recall correctly the conclusion was that difference is insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Well you missed that lengthy debate on a number of forums. If I recall correctly the conclusion was that difference is insignificant. Direct me to the debate .I assume you are excluding pacing races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 14 minutes ago, curious said: A handicapping system is theoretically supposed to do that, so for me, I'd say fixing that so slower horses have an equal chance would both achieve HR's objective to a greater degree and make the wagering product more attractive. We do have a small amount of appearance money now (back to 10th) which seems reasonable. So, already those horses essentially race for free. I don't agree with the approach. It dilutes the prize money for those horses that are competitive. That has a number of downstream negatives. Yesterday a horse won $1,500 in stakes and didn't even finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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