Chief Stipe

What logic is "plain silly"? You are working from an old paradigm. With the benefit of modern computing and algorithms they spend a lot less time "doing the form" than you realise. The NZTAB may have had numerous bookies pouring over fields and form in the past but since ENTAIN has taken over and more data has become available much of the hard graft is done by computer. Hell I know part-time punters that have developed computer programmes with multi-factor algorithms that produce odds and then compare against the odds on offer to flag value. In fact there are a few posters on BOAY past and present that do that. If they're doing it you'd be mad to think the bookies aren't doing it with all the computing power they have. Well we all know that jumpouts in OZ are akin to our trials so yes it does have relevance. I fail to see what value a trackwork watcher offers and comments from most Trainers I tend to ignore. Owners pay for that information - why should it be available to EVERY punter? That said I've heard information from trainers that more often than not has been turned upside down in a race. I remember my first winner - "Oh we'd be happy if she finished fourth"....bolted in and paid $36!!! No it isn't a waster of time getting the information - afterall the owner pays for it - but the value in terms of its chances in a race are very limited. Generally I've learnt that the best I can hope for from a trainer is "the horse is bright, fit and very happy and there have been no problems in the lead up".

I doubt the pre-race analysis accounted for the extreme track bias though.

Where are the "thousands" going to come from to attend country tracks? Certainly not the country.

In other words - sand.

I don’t know. I can remember taking my piggy bank down to the Post Office to change the coins but can't remember the exchange rate. Knowing Muldoon he probably short changed me!!!

So on a value basis you and @Huey should have trained 5 champions by now? I'm not sure why Pivotal Ten is in the mix. Hardly done much except win some South Island black type. Was a risky purchase as a yearling at $15k. As for Rough Habit he was homebred and raced before he was sold. On that basis there's bound to be a champion for sale on Gavelhouse.

Depends I used pounds as the currency didnt change until July 1967. Not as old as @Huey to remember what time of year the sales were held.

This information has been available for years in other jurisdictions and there is no sign that wagering has dropped off because of it. I know a number of individuals who download the data and process it themselves. I also know that the top trainers have software programmes that analyse race videos for individual horse performance. The days of stopwatches are disappearing. Do you seriously think that bookies analyse every single horse in every single race to set their opening markets? They biggest edge they have is the real time market information. How do you assess value if you don't review race performance? You're kidding? You'd rely on a quote from a Trainer? The better option would be up to date videos with sectionals of jumpouts and trials like they do in Australia - particularly Victoria. Trackwork watching is only useful if sectional times are provided not that I've ever seen a reliable correlation between that and raceday performance.

Harness has that info and the system used at Ellerslie has the distance run by each horse.

Really? Well each to their own. So how do you assess individual performance? Surely not reading the Stewards notes!!!

Yes I agree. Provides a lot of information when reviewing a race. For example I saved the replay of the Canterbury Breeders Stakes and watched a few times. The winner wasn't actually 3 or 4 wide without cover the entrie trip like it looked and as the presenters and commentator observed. The horse actually got cover 1 out and relaxed over some softish sections for 400m or 500m of the first part of the bend. She steadily increased the pace from 500m out (observing the sectionals on screen) which put those behind her in time trouble. Then put in an elite sectional for the last 200m that gave nothing a chance. Observing the sectional times while watching specific horses position gives a better assessment of their performance than post race reviewing the sectionals alone.

Is that why Hong Kong has been doing it for years?

Good point. They have sectionals on Loveracing.nz for most meetings. Ellerslie has the full data for all their races on their website. I reviewed the Trackside recording I kept.

Not all of them. Not that many live in the country nowadays.

Darryl's Joy was sold as a yealing for $1,100. I know it is a difficult concept for you to grasp but $1,100 then is worth $55,000+ today.

Foaled in 1966!!! Sold for $1,100 as a yealing. Which today is the equivalent of over $55,000. Wild Night was cheaper!!!

Owned by Westbury Stud.

Name 5.

Exactly costs SFA. But great information. I first noticed it 1000 Guineas Day when watching a horse I was interested in. Sat 3 wide and I thought "oh no this is going to hurt"! But the early sectionals were easy and I could see the numbers. Reviewed the race afterwards and could see the horse didn't travel as wide as I thought.

You can't buy them at the $2 shop @Huey . Nor at the rest home bingo night.

That's what they've been doing during Cup week. Quite accurate too. LOL shame the Jockeys dont have the real time info. Might help them judge pace better.

What do you think the cost is?

Soundness issues. Not uncommon amongst the top horses.

I noticed it while watching 1000 Guineas day at Riccarton. The sectionals assuming they were accurate were brilliant.

New graphics part of TAB’s long-term plans to educate punters www.newstalkzb.co.nz The way Kiwis watch horse racing is changing and Trackside bosses hope that ultimately provides punters with a new way of analysing the sport.https://bitofayarn.com New Zealand Cup week saw a successful roll out of the new real time tracking graphics which show punters where their horse is during the running of the race. The system powered by company tripleSdata is already common in some overseas jurisdictions and something similar was already being used by major New Zealand racetracks like Ellerslie and Addington. But the new package will be expanded to most tracks around the country to provide uniform coverage of racing. It shows where each horse is in every race in a graphic across the bottom of the screen on Trackside and Trackside.co.nz, along with race speed and sectionals. The graphic clears during the closing stages of a race as less horses are in play and to provide a clean screen to cover the whole track as horses often spread across it.https://bitofayarn.com The system works through transponders placed in saddleclothes for both thoroughbred and harness racing, which are transported around the country in the Outside Broadcasting Vans used by Trackside, so every time a meeting is covered, the saddleclothes will be there. While some punters who watch a lot of racing may not need the system to keep up with where their horse is in the running, TAB Head Of Live Racing for Entain, Kyle Bettler, says it is a great resource for those new to racing punting or who may not be as used to reading races. But Bettler says the ultimate benefit of the new system will be as a punting tool and helping New Zealand racing fans catch up with data analysis around the world.https://bitofayarn.com “First and foremost it is a great new tool so racing viewers can see where their horse is,” says Bettler. “Some punters may not need that but plenty of people will enjoy being able to track their horse for the whole race. “But all the data from each horse is also recorded and will become available to punters.https://bitofayarn.com “Within a few months we hope to have all that data collated and available on the trackside.co.nz website so punters can get in-depth information on any horses not only after races but more importantly when assessing their chances in upcoming races.” Data analysis on things like sectionals, top speeds and even total ground covered is common in overseas betting jurisdictions but the New Zealand punting marketplace is still maturing, not only in terms of analysis, but understanding how markets work. “We want to educate punters on how to use this data so they can be better informed,” says Bettler, who has a background at the elite levels of Australian-based professional punting. “Next year we will be launching a new show on Trackside to help educate punters on how the data works, what to look for, how ratings systems work and how they can use all of it as a punting tool.” The new graphics and data collection system will be rolled out on 30 tracks this summer but some of the less frequently-used venues won’t have it installed yet because they may not have the infrastructure to support it. “But any track that races 4-5 times a year or more will have it for certain. “In some cases we will have a test run at the next meeting for a venue and once that is successful punters will see it at that track’s next meeting after that. Michael Guerin wrote his first nationally published racing articles while still in school and started writing about horse racing and the gambling industry for the Herald as a 20-year-old in 1990. He became the Herald’s Racing Editor in 1995 and covers the world’s biggest horse racing carnivals.