Chief Stipe

In respect of Thomass he is only stating the obvious.

I'll leave others to judge if my analysis of propaganda is "woeful". However you have never countered my analysis with your own. All you do is keep posting the party bullshit. Most of us are not that gullible.

Not about balls or lack thereof. You just hadn't reached the threshold of where I was motivated to respond. I don't need to publish "evidence" as I respect the integrity of the person who informed me. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then it probably is a duck. Totally unrelated. You are scurrying. Proof? Or is that hearsay on your part? "Toxic Site" - name it.

If what you say is correct then that is hypocrisy at its worst. However in Molloy’s defence he has always defended and actually fought for David Walker. The hypocrisy lies with NZ Racing Admin. You can't proclaim integrity if you are inconsistent with the application of your "grey" rules.

It shouldn't be a priority. I know I sound boring and repetitive but why do we expect racing to be any different to rugby in terms of attendance? As you point out Curious the key to racing surviving is where the rubber hits the road or in horse terms where the hoof hits the turf. Good consistent safe turf tracks with quality fields and the punter will punt. They don't need to be on course to punt.

Rest assured any partner of mine would see through JJ in a Flash.

Which explains your propensity to regurgitate their propaganda without any cogent analysis.

Well what do expect when I was informed that you were using the PM function to slag BOAY and encourage posters to leave. Similar to the RIU modus operandi. Allowing you to do that would be a bit like lending my car to you so you could go screw my partner. Yeah na you won't cuckold me. Now that isn't a restriction on free speech because you can still post your crap for everyone to see.

Twice in one week agreeing with Galah. I must be ill. Copy That wouldn't have won that race. He was off for some reason. Blair Orange didn't drive him with confidence either. Probably more than one reason why avoiding the FFA.

I wonder if ALL Trainers are happy that they are irrigating? Makes sense to me - Friday and Saturday look like being screamingly hot at 26 degrees plus! Thursday Afternoon Weather: Fine Track: Dead 6 Rail: Out 3m from 1100m To 450m, Out 3m In The Chute | 8mm Irrigation today Weather and Track last updated at 12.36pm Thursday 12 November

Cool you have your own water walker.

But by the time you get to that stage hasn't the build up work been done elsewhere? Also isn't speed at which you are galloping the key factor.

I see the tyre tacks Curious - did you run the groomer across before you galloped?

I hear you and NZ has some of the best training tracks free of charge and auto maintained in the world - none near the Waikato though. I see a lot of trainers use one near Melbourne. This one isn't near Melbourne though but 200m from the Ruakaka race track.

Lichter's article is also a bit misleading - understandable considering who pays him. But the disadvantage that Copy That experienced was made worse by that horse's seemingly reluctance to get going. The following picture only serves to slant the argument. Oh I wish for a return to objective journalism rather than opinion-ism.

I've read a few comments about Lamb working for the RIU but just passed over them thinking it was just smoke. Until I read Lichter's latest article. Sure it is "Source say..." but surely that is a huge conflict? No wonder he appears to have immunity with the Stipes! Sources say there is also friction between Lamb and many of the drivers in the wake of the Operation Inca inquiry. Lamb not only acts as the sole starter in the Canterbury area but he is employed by the Racing Integrity Unit as an investigator and was involved in the long running and so far essentially fruitless cases against a number of drivers, a conflict that many argue should not be allowed to continue.

But where do draw the line with CT/MRI scans? Why only for the Melbourne Cup? How do you determine the line where a horse is OK or it isn't? Seems a slippery slope to me. Statistically is it going to make a difference? Was Anthony Van Dyck scanned when he arrived?

Tweets by riuorgnz

I was more thinking about the accumulative affect of a number of seasons training on the AWT (and soft tracks) e.g. the UK.

I don't disagree however the point Freedman has made (and others) is that the difference between UK horse training and Australia is that the surfaces are generally softer. So when they travel south their legs are not accustomed to the harder surfaces so any latent issues with their legs are quickly found out. So if you agree with that logic and we train more on softer/forgiving surfaces will we increase the potential of breakdown especially when our main money tracks (stakes wise) are considerably more firmer than an AWT. To use an extreme example if you train your horse up during the late winter/early spring on the Riccarton AWT and then had raced on the track presented on 3 October is your horse more likely to become sore/lame than if it had be trained up on a firmer surface or perhaps more importantly an inconsistent surface? Bone density increases when it is placed under stress - it is a natural physiological response. If you don't place a horse under stress and then allow periods of recovery bone density will not increase.

Ironically the SAME distance as the winner Self Assured!

Freedman: My take on Cup concerns Racing.com 9 November, 2020 By Lee Freedman Much has been made of the way the Melbourne Cup has evolved since Vintage Crop first took it back Ireland in 1993, and JB Cummings famously and correctly said the Cup would never been the same again. But within this discussion there is now 28 years of evidence to support or debunk the views of where the Cup is at now. The fact is since the “internationalization” of the Melbourne Cup, Doriemus, Saintly, Brew, Ethereal, Prince of Penzance, Efficient, Vow and Declare, Rogan Josh, Jezabeel, Viewed, Shocking and Might and Power have been able to win it for Australasia (I’ve left Makybe Diva’s three wins in neither the overseas nor local category as she was, effectively, in both). This would suggest a fairly even split of results between the two hemispheres. However, in the last 10 years, eight have been won by overseas horses. The two main reasons for this appears to be the escalation of Cup prizemoney has attracted more of the overseas people and they have become a lot better at getting horses here that can win the race. Travel times have improved, quarantine improved and generally the knowledge of how to get the job done as well. This, however, cannot usher the “elephant” out of the room - the fatalities of imported horses. To be accurate there are two “elephants”. One is the fatalities, which are felt worldwide, the other is the thought that imports are winning too often and disenfranchising local owners. The most successful at the import raid are Team Williams. They are longtime supporters of the local thoroughbred product, that delivered Just A Dash, What A Nuisance and Efficient as Cup winners in the past, have now taken the import route in recent years. (I’m announcing they are friends and have been clients of mine) Team Williams, plus the O’Brien’s of Ireland, are making an art form of winning the Melbourne Cup. Let me assure you this is an expensive venture and the wastage in terms of horses that don’t make it puts the exercise well beyond the means of the vast majority of Australians. However it’s their money to spend and the rules allow. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle and not returning any time soon. But the other “elephant” is still wandering about the room. The first thing my wonderful Japanese assistant said to me here in Singapore the morning after the cup was: “what a shame about the death of the lovely horse”. The problem is 250 years plus of breeding in the UK versus 200 million years of continent Australia climate. European horses are different and are reared and raced in far more accommodating conditions in Europe than Australia. In other words, the tracks match their physiques. Blaming the Werribee quarantine facilities for all the woes of the imports is far too simplistic. I’ve recently curbed my enthusiasm for Twitter, but I dropped my guard the other day when I tweeted my approval for Macedon Lodge being used for quarantine. Not that I don’t think it would be excellent, believe me it would be, but for a racing industry that has performed so brilliantly during the COVID period and faces more COVID inspired challenges to be expected to spend many millions on satisfying the needs of a very few privileged for three minutes and 20 seconds on a November afternoon is not logical. Werribee is a good quarantine set up and believe me when I tell you from 50 years of hands on experience with racehorses, that sound horses don’t break down unless the surface they work on is flawed. Yes, the turns are tight but the horses are there for three to four weeks which wouldn’t impact on horses soundness to cause catastrophic injury. A different set up may be better but could it be quantified as to the eradication of fatalities? Blaming Flemington racetrack is similarly flawed. We have a harsh, arid climate in Australia and trying to manipulate track conditions every raceday to suit everybody is impossible. In the main, Racecourse Managers do a great job. We must stop blaming ourselves and put the responsibility of providing the race with sound overseas representatives back on those connections. The only way to ensure the integrity of the vetting of these horses is preserved, is by MRI science, before they even get on the plane. An independent process performed without fear or favour, that protects the Melbourne Cup and does away with opinion vetting. Yes, there will still be opinions on MRI findings but aren’t we continually told to “follow the science”? In discussions with some of my brothers, all respected and experienced horsemen in their own right, an alternative may be a mandatory six month training and racing period in Australia for these imports before they run in the Cup to acclimate to Australian conditions, and that’s a very sound proposal. But the argument against that would be that it would interfere with the Northern Hemisphere racing season which is true but really not the problem of the Australian Industry. To paraphrase a quote from a recently departed US President it should be “Australia First”. The “smart money” knows the fly in late hit run mission works best, but it also exposes the flaws in the current system and the fatalities are slipping through the net and for it to survive big changes need to be made. Believe me also when I say that no matter how wealthy and powerful the connections of these horses are, it hurts them the same as if they were a hobby trainer when a horse becomes a fatal statistic. We all love our horses, it’s just that powerful groups can deal with the collateral damage more easily, but I’m not sure the view of the Melbourne Cup fatalities in the eyes of the racing world, will afford the Australian Racing industry that luxury.

We've been told that one of the top trainers at Newmarket is an avid fan of AWT's but could their use in NZ lead to more horse fatalities? Read below Champion trainer Lee Freedman's view on why the European Melbourne Cup contenders are breaking down.

Arc plans firm-up for Elleegant Andrew Eddy 10 November, 2020 Brae Sokolski is rueing Verry Elleegant's lost opportunity in her one and only Melbourne Cup start, but the wonderful Spring Carnival of his mare has confirmed his view that the Caulfield Cup winner should be bound for one of the world's greatest races next year. Sokolski's Melbourne Cup runners Verry Elleegant, Finche and Cox Plate winner Sir Dragonet are all out spelling and while all three will return to racing in the autumn, next spring is likely to see Verry Elleegant a world away preparing to contest the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe in France. "We've always thought that she is going to be at her best as a six-year-old and she's a proven world-class mare who loves wet ground and deserves to be tried on the world stage," Sokolski said on Tuesday. "She'll be at the peak of her powers at her favourite trip and we'd love to see what she could do." Verry Elleegant finished seventh in last week's Melbourne Cup after getting well out of her ground for much of the race. The fact she finished on hard to record the quickest final 600 metres of the race proved to her connections that she could handle two miles, but Sokolski said she will never be tried over 3200m again. "That was her one and only chance at it and we thought she ran very well after getting too far back," he said. "She lost sight of the leader and just couldn't win from where she was, but she really finished off bravely." Verry Elleegant (NZ) Trainer C.J.Waller Age 5YO Sex Mare Colour Brown Prize Money $7,056,044 Last 5 14117 Career 25-11-5-1 POS Jockey Track Date DIST Race WGT MRG Odds 7 – 23 M.Zahra FLEM 3 NOV 20 3200m MELB CUP 55.5kg 3.8L $10 % 1 – 18 M.Zahra CAUL 17 OCT 20 2400m CAUL CUP 55kg 0.2L $5 % 1 – 15 M.Zahra FLEM 3 OCT 20 2000m TURNBULL 55.5kg 0.1L $5 % 4 – 7 J.B.McDonald RAND 19 SEP 20 1600m GEO MAIN 57kg 1.6L $2.20 1 – 16 J.B.McDonald RAND 22 AUG 20 1400m WINX STKS 57kg 0.1L $7.50 Given the path to an Arc for an Australian is virtually untrodden, Sokolski said a plan on how to get her to the race is yet to be determined. Firstly, Verry Elleegant will have a busy autumn campaign and one that looks most familiar for the millions of fans of former super mare Winx. Verry Elleegant will take a Winx-like path through races such as the Apollo Stakes, Chipping Norton Stakes and Ranvet Stakes on her way to possibly a Tancred (2400m), or like Winx, a 2000-metre Queen Elizabeth Stakes. "She's not Winx, but there's no doubt she's the best mile-and-a-half horse in the country," Sokolski said. She could then go to Europe early and run over Royal Ascot in June to prepare for the Arc in September. Sokolski said he felt Cox Plate winner Sir Dragonet did not stay the 3200-metre Cup distance but that Finche, who shared the early lead with eventual winner Twilight Payment, could again go to the trip in autumn's Sydney Cup.

Yes an excellent track presented last Saturday and that involved some skillful management of irrigation options. Today's track a different story with the Big Boy upstairs playing a bigger hand. Nearly two inches on rain on Monday set the scene. Of course a Strathayr wouldn't have been affected as much and would recover quicker. Race Day Weather: Overcast Track: Slow 7 Rail: True Weather and Track last updated at 6.25am Wednesday 11 November Tuesday Afternoon Weather: Overcast Track: Slow 7 Rail: True Weather and Track last updated at 3.49pm Tuesday 10 November Tuesday Morning Weather: Overcast Track: Slow 7 Rail: True Weather and Track last updated at 8.59am Tuesday 10 November Monday Morning Weather: Overcast Track: Slow 9 Rail: True | 48mm rain last 48 hours Weather and Track last updated at 8.49am Monday 9 November Sunday Morning Weather: Raining Track: TBC Rail: True Weather and Track last updated at 8.51am Sunday 8 November