Ellerslie Track Update - Derby Week 2024

[Chief Stipe]

About 30+ horses galloped in a number of heats today at Ellerslie.

10 to 15mm of rain overnight and early morning.  Surface held up well with the horses cutting into the ground about 10mm.

A lot of sand in the top layer - about 300mm.

Didn't seem to be any slipping.  Track to cored again this week.

 

[curious]

Looks pretty good. What are the holes in the photos? Of course, the question is, would you risk one on it with a bit of rain about, at racing speeds, changing ground etc., especially with the reported injuries from Karaka night?

[Chief Stipe]

56 minutes ago, curious said:

Looks pretty good. What are the holes in the photos? Of course, the question is, would you risk one on it with a bit of rain about, at racing speeds, changing ground etc., especially with the reported injuries from Karaka night?

There were no major holes.  Just the usual hoof flicks.

There is a grass mat on top that needs to be opened.  But I understand they are going to core again.  Too much sand in my opinion.

[curious]

7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

There were no major holes.  Just the usual hoof flicks.

There is a grass mat on top that needs to be opened.  But I understand they are going to core again.  Too much sand in my opinion.

Do you mean mat on top from mowing debris?

[Chief Stipe]

21 minutes ago, curious said:

Do you mean mat on top from mowing debris?

No.  The grass has formed a mat but without rooting deep.  Not sure how to explain.  But it looks to me that the grass has had lots of water and fertiliser frequently but has no need to root deeply.  There is stuff all organic matter in the top 300mm - just sand.  It isn't what I thought a StrathAyr was about.

[Freda]

15 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

No.  The grass has formed a mat but without rooting deep.  Not sure how to explain.  But it looks to me that the grass has had lots of water and fertiliser frequently but has no need to root deeply.  There is stuff all organic matter in the top 300mm - just sand.  It isn't what I thought a StrathAyr was about.

Nor me.

[curious]

15 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

No.  The grass has formed a mat but without rooting deep.  Not sure how to explain.  But it looks to me that the grass has had lots of water and fertiliser frequently but has no need to root deeply.  There is stuff all organic matter in the top 300mm - just sand.  It isn't what I thought a StrathAyr was about.

Like the roots have formed a mat below the turf layer without penetrating the sand mix layer? That's what it sort of sounded like when they talked about surface tension. Would you line one up on it?

Edited February 26, 2024 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, curious said:

Like the roots have formed a mat below the turf layer without penetrating the sand mix layer? That's what it sort of sounded like when they talked about surface tension. Would you line one up on it?

I'm not sure if we are talking at cross purposes...

The turf layer isn't very deep and the roots haven't penetrated that far.  The core I picked up on Waitangi Day showed very little organic matter, densely matted but very fine roots in a layer of about 25mm.

It would appearing the coring has improved the turf layer since then and there is more organic matter but I would say the turf they laid had a very thin layer of soil and was put straight onto sand.  With irrigation and fertiliser the roots wouldn't have penetrated that deeply so you would have ended up with something akin to carpet over a polished floor.  When the horses gallope the carpet would have split into pieces and made it very shifty under foot.  I'm only guessing about the "surface tension" explanation but thinking about it from a physics perspective the rain would have found it hard to penetrate and probably lubricated the carpet.

 

[curious]

I thought they sowed the turf, not laid it?

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, curious said:

I thought they sowed the turf, not laid it?

Good point.  I have no idea.  A point though sowing grass seed on sand doesn't create turf - well that's my understanding.  So the turf layer is going to take some time to develop if you haven't laid any soil over the sand.  If you look at the picture of the core above it is mainly sand and possibly a very very thin layer of soil.

[curious]

https://www.aucklandracing.co.nz/update-on-the-strathayr-track-project/

Seeding never been tried before on a Strathayr, so they took a big risk imo.

Edited February 27, 2024 by curious

[Freda]

7 minutes ago, curious said:

https://www.aucklandracing.co.nz/update-on-the-strathayr-track-project/

Seeding never been tried before on a Strathayr, so they took a big risk imo.

Damn right they did. 

[curious]

Probably needs an extra year to be safe for racing and the experimental nature also means, even then, the required process and maintenance is untested. You can't really blame Strathayr because Ellerslie tried to save a few bucks on a $50 million project by deviating from the true and tested methodology.

 

[Chief Stipe]

I did see some improvement in the 20 days since I last looked at it.  But they could have identified the problem and started the remedial work well before the Karaka meeting and perhaps avoided the injuries to some very very well bred and expensive horses.  I wonder if they took any core samples BEFORE the big meeting?

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, curious said:

Ellerslie tried to save a few bucks on a $50 million project by deviating from the true and tested methodology.

Is that right?  Would it have been another $5m in cost?

[curious]

It says this in the above report. Have you seen any evidence of that? How would they have determined that from walking the track? Something doesn't add up.

The learnings from the track walk were that grass growth and root strength have exceeded expectations, with roots grown down to 230mms in some areas.

[Chief Stipe]

22 minutes ago, curious said:

It says this in the above report. Have you seen any evidence of that? How would they have determined that from walking the track? Something doesn't add up.

The learnings from the track walk were that grass growth and root strength have exceeded expectations, with roots grown down to 230mms in some areas.

You couldn't make that statement just walking the track.  You'd need to take many rather large core samples.

[curious]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You couldn't make that statement just walking the track.  You'd need to take many rather large core samples.

Only thing I can think is maybe they were told that while they were walking!

[Special Agent]

You'd wonder why they would be experimenting and not going down a tried and true route.

The more NZTR stand in front of me the more they lose credibility and respect.  As his term goes on, along with mthe pressure, the more shitty Bruce Sharrock becomes.

After all the assurances from NZTR I see Hastings was abandoned part way through the programme.

In any other business or industry there would be a complete change of personnel.  Stop telling us which tracks need to be sold because you have it completely wrong.

I believe the word used by Bruce Sharrock was professional.  Well FFS how about taking a look in the mirror!!

[Huey]

53 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

You'd wonder why they would be experimenting and not going down a tried and true route.

The more NZTR stand in front of me the more they lose credibility and respect.  As his term goes on, along with mthe pressure, the more shitty Bruce Sharrock becomes.

After all the assurances from NZTR I see Hastings was abandoned part way through the programme.

In any other business or industry there would be a complete change of personnel.  Stop telling us which tracks need to be sold because you have it completely wrong.

I believe the word used by Bruce Sharrock was professional.  Well FFS how about taking a look in the mirror!!

Yes its laughable when he tells the whole industry they need to get on board, of course anyone with half brain knows thats corporate speak for "everyone whose not one of the chosen few needs to grin bare it and take it"!