TAB For Ever Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 1 hour ago, Wingman said: TAB For Ever you have got to stop going to church...or alternatively, go and stay. You go, get lectured to, then come back and double down giving all on this site a lecture who you derisively refer to as quicksanders. The Pearl series is like KM, pay or not pay. Both are a form of limited lottery as any sane person knows the majority of payees are paying for a lucky few. With that said if you have a cheap filly you would be well advised to pay up with the knowledge that if placed well, one win will probably go close to paying for a seasons bills. So less lectures please and for your penance TAB For Ever, get out your beads and repeat 10 times, "I will one day rise to the ethereal heights of Wingman" Thanks for the advice...are you Marcelo Montoya the wingman. In the words of Anne Murray..... Spread your tiny wings and fly away , And take the gloom back with you , Where it came from that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 17 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Thanks for the advice...are you Marcelo Montoya the wingman. In the words of Anne Murray..... Spread your tiny wings and fly away , And take the gloom back with you , Where it came from that day. The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 On 3/30/2024 at 7:48 PM, TAB For Ever said: It was the Final of the popular Pearl series which has provided for Bonus payments for winning mares/fillies in nominated races for paid-up horses throughout the season. The final was well won today by a ONE win horse that had raced just 6 x times and won $23040. Grey Haze was jasmine Fawcett's only ride of day. The filly takes home $23 k for winning. PLUS the Pearl Series bonus of $70k for the owners , one of whom works on the tote at races ! Sounds great TABman . seems you cop criticism if you support new concepts that give breeders a nice reward for their Fillies and mares in a series that gives something for the smaller players to aim at. a few hail mary's are in order lol? seems a lot of races were run in that series, and a few wins had, and plenty of happy owners /trainers and jockeys even, which is what it's all about . all in with a chance. I like Novelty races . some of the Trainers here in Oz, that are No Hope of a Golden Slipper or big Group race win against the Juggernaut stables , actually get a chance in a few of those.🏆 the novelty $2,000,000 Kosiouszko run each year can dodge the Gai , Waller,Goldolphin,Snowden, etc and the 6 winners to date have been trained by >>> John Shelton, Keith Dryden, Brett Cavonough, Terry Robinson, Geoff Duryea, and Matthew Dale trained Front Page to win the last one. 💰 A BIG Randwick race giving All racing lovers (owners/trainers) a fair crack at the big money for a change. on a big races day. Bring on more Novelty races .. good on the 'Pearl creators' there !! just the tonic to help support Nz racing along ..🏇 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 12 hours ago, Gammalite said: Sounds great TABman . seems you cop criticism if you support new concepts that give breeders a nice reward for their Fillies and mares in a series that gives something for the smaller players to aim at. a few hail mary's are in order lol? seems a lot of races were run in that series, and a few wins had, and plenty of happy owners /trainers and jockeys even, which is what it's all about . all in with a chance. I like Novelty races . some of the Trainers here in Oz, that are No Hope of a Golden Slipper or big Group race win against the Juggernaut stables , actually get a chance in a few of those.🏆 the novelty $2,000,000 Kosiouszko run each year can dodge the Gai , Waller,Goldolphin,Snowden, etc and the 6 winners to date have been trained by >>> John Shelton, Keith Dryden, Brett Cavonough, Terry Robinson, Geoff Duryea, and Matthew Dale trained Front Page to win the last one. 💰 A BIG Randwick race giving All racing lovers (owners/trainers) a fair crack at the big money for a change. on a big races day. Bring on more Novelty races .. good on the 'Pearl creators' there !! just the tonic to help support Nz racing along ..🏇 Too true Gamma , my glass half full outlook not really welcome in forums where ' accentuate the negative ' is the desired approach. Racing has been on the downhill slide in NZ for some time ,I've lived in areas where predictably its just died and folk stand by and ask why......NZ racing was technically insolvent in NZ just a few years back and IMO it has been given some life and hope by Aussie outfit Entain who are basically just putting the Australian overlay on to it. I still enjoy racedays tho it can be a long drawn out affair and easy to see why it easier to stay at home...racing in NZ now very much a Television sport. Entain is having a crack , and I wish them well in their attempt to get young people who are the future punters to involve themselves in racing/wagering. Its a huge ask in NZ.....but I sense a real increase in interest in horse ownership and many ,many new owners I know are excitedly getting involved with their 2 - 3 % shares in horses. And last meeting I attended there were several folk I met who are into that or supporting friends/relations who are into that and really enjoying the day out as well. But nothing like the attendance of the good old days when nothing else to do. If I had the 'passion' of many on here toward racing and the 'knowledge' of some I'd be putting it to greater use by joining club committees etc and seeing where it took me . Not thinking ,talking and worrying about things I nothing to do with and don't control, I'd be channeling towards where something can be done. I enjoy my racing involvement ,always have , but mixing it with fellow keyboard warriors not the best use of time but someday I may add something useful and can report on some of the pitfalls and costs of involvement for others. I really concerned about Harness in the North ,looking at the nominations for Cambridge on Thursday make me weep and some top Aussies arriving in town too .But that for another forum . All the best champ ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 52 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Too true Gamma , my glass half full outlook not really welcome in forums where ' accentuate the negative ' is the desired approach. Racing has been on the downhill slide in NZ for some time ,I've lived in areas where predictably its just died and folk stand by and ask why......NZ racing was technically insolvent in NZ just a few years back and IMO it has been given some life and hope by Aussie outfit Entain who are basically just putting the Australian overlay on to it. But what has fundamentally changed? The real issues are not being addressed. Throwing more and more money at stakes is just doing the same old same old and expecting a different result. As Einstein said it is insanity. Take the Pearl Series (FAMIS rebranded) - it has been around for decades but what has it done to improve things? In your own words racing is dying so obiviously bonuses aren't working either are they? Don't you see some irony in Saturdays winner of the Group 1 Thoroughbred Breeders Stakes is off to the Gold Coast to be sold as a broodmare? Let alone the fact she wasn't Pearl nominated and only two of the Breeders Stakes runners were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: But what has fundamentally changed? The real issues are not being addressed. Throwing more and more money at stakes is just doing the same old same old and expecting a different result. As Einstein said it is insanity. Take the Pearl Series (FAMIS rebranded) - it has been around for decades but what has it done to improve things? In your own words racing is dying so obiviously bonuses aren't working either are they? Don't you see some irony in Saturdays winner of the Group 1 Thoroughbred Breeders Stakes is off to the Gold Coast to be sold as a broodmare? Let alone the fact she wasn't Pearl nominated and only two of the Breeders Stakes runners were! Be nice Chief.....this current push is bigger and better and there is a good buzz around currently and with Imperatriz etc etc doing so well in Australia and more widespread promotion and marketing here in NZ you gotta admit there is some hope ! If not we will still have Sports betting and Aussie racing...Nz Racing has hamstrung itself for decades thru regional bias and poor decisions ! No irony in Belclare being sold..the owner points out that money talks and it will enable him to continue his interest in racing. Certainly been well placed to win close to $1 mil in NZ . Breeding is difficult and not as easy as many infer and I find snide remarks about the big Breeders to be off the mark as most have earned the money they put into it from outside business and /or hard toil. Cheer Up champ...gonna be a couple of good years , buy some shares and join the fun ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: But what has fundamentally changed? The real issues are not being addressed. Throwing more and more money at stakes is just doing the same old same old and expecting a different result. As Einstein said it is insanity. Take the Pearl Series (FAMIS rebranded) - it has been around for decades but what has it done to improve things? In your own words racing is dying so obiviously bonuses aren't working either are they? Don't you see some irony in Saturdays winner of the Group 1 Thoroughbred Breeders Stakes is off to the Gold Coast to be sold as a broodmare? Let alone the fact she wasn't Pearl nominated and only two of the Breeders Stakes runners were! What needs to fundamentally change is your attitude toward the recent and planned changes..... If you change the way you look at things , The things you look at change ! As well as the positive changes I've banged on about in recent times there are others you should support......Trackside becoming Free to Air , more live track presenters [ you should apply I could see you doing a Tony Greig wicket/track report ,down on haunches sifting the sand between your fingers talking about peat etc ] plus more preview of races. Plus 10% more harness races which should add to participants returns. Happy days.... Oh , and please correct your comment about Belclare not being Pearl series registered .She raced in a few Pearl races early on ,picking up the odd bonus . Get with the program ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 6 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: Oh , and please correct your comment about Belclare not being Pearl series registered .She raced in a few Pearl races early on ,picking up the odd bonus . Get with the program ! Ok then blame the NZTR database as it doesn’t say she was registered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 8 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: What needs to fundamentally change is your attitude toward the recent and planned changes..... If you change the way you look at things , The things you look at change ! Did you pick that up from Sundays sermon? What changes? All we've seen is borrowed money (it isn't coming from revenue) thrown at Stakes. I'll say it again that approach has been tried time and time again. If the Pearl Series (aka FAMIS) is so great why is the foal crop continuing to decline? I'll repeat tell us all what has been done to change the fundamental issues with the industry? Poor tracks, a decline in the skill and number of Jockeys, a crap handicapping system that pushes out the average horse and favours mediocrity leading to a decline in horse numbers. WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO FIX THOSE ISSUES? Aside from closing good tracks for no good reason. All we have to show for it about $100m spent is three AWT tracks no trainer really wants to use and a bastardised hybrid version of a StrathAyr. Not to mention reconditioned tracks that need to be renovated AGAIN and AGAIN. Enlighten us all @TAB For Ever. Don't bother repeating how great the novelty races, the sweepstake races and the high end stake increase are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 This reminds me of the 1980 glory days of racing. We know what happened afterwards. I would like to think it is different this time around and Entain can pull something exceptional out of the box to sustain the injection of cash and enthusiasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 On 4/1/2024 at 2:18 PM, TAB For Ever said: If I had the 'passion' of many on here toward racing and the 'knowledge' of some I'd be putting it to greater use by joining club committees etc and seeing where it took me . Not thinking ,talking and worrying about things I nothing to do with and don't control, I'd be channeling towards where something can be done. All jokes aside, what is stopping you from joining a racing club committee? If your ideas are too whacky for a racing club, they will soon tell you. Some clubs need an outside the box thinker. If you don't have a go you don't know your worth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I don't really see any problem with the Pearl series. The races seem to be reasonably well spread and mostly at lower grade meetings so it gives an astute trainer an opportunity to pick up a few extra dollars for their owners. It all helps, and seems to be much better than having one race with a big stake. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 On 4/2/2024 at 8:47 AM, Chief Stipe said: Did you pick that up from Sundays sermon? What changes? All we've seen is borrowed money (it isn't coming from revenue) thrown at Stakes. I'll say it again that approach has been tried time and time again. If the Pearl Series (aka FAMIS) is so great why is the foal crop continuing to decline? I'll repeat tell us all what has been done to change the fundamental issues with the industry? Poor tracks, a decline in the skill and number of Jockeys, a crap handicapping system that pushes out the average horse and favours mediocrity leading to a decline in horse numbers. WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO FIX THOSE ISSUES? Aside from closing good tracks for no good reason. All we have to show for it about $100m spent is three AWT tracks no trainer really wants to use and a bastardised hybrid version of a StrathAyr. Not to mention reconditioned tracks that need to be renovated AGAIN and AGAIN. Enlighten us all @TAB For Ever. Don't bother repeating how great the novelty races, the sweepstake races and the high end stake increase are. You banging on again Chief ...same old ,same old ! I don't know any sport or business that doesn't make the odd blunder ,decide on a path that doesn't turn out as hoped/expected. Just seeing GHart on TV news when he started out in business most said he was on a road to nowhere ! Just hope they learn from it....any thing worth doing is worth doing badly at first .Thats how you learn. Should have closed many tracks 50 years ago...in early days of NZ racing they closed many tracks ,should have closed many more. Too much personal bias on conflict of Interest in keeping lame ducks open too long ! Cambridge synthetic doing a nice job...the stables which are smashing the Aussies right now have ...Orchestral ,Mark Twain and Imperatriz all trialled on Synthetic when learning the ropes .And SMarsh horses flying too. A garden of flowers there ,but I bet you'll find a weed somewhere ! And Orchestral won 3 x times on new Ellerslie track.....you banged on about that unsafe track...Orchestral didn't believe you . She loved it...music to her hairs ! Number and skill of Jockeys...add the ones only a few hours away and clearly the best we have had avallable for a long time.....plenty too ,several good jockeys getting just one or two rides a meeting . And industry participants need to do better to maintain/improve the quality of tracks and jockeys. Stop blameing others for your failures .The clubs need to keep the tracks up to standard and the trainers need to care about and apprenticeship the young jockeys. Kiwis are mainly too heavy so import more talent and look after them.So basic. And aren't jockeys well paid these days ...must be over 10 NZ jockeys earning $250k in first half of season and another 15 over $100 k already. And allow a bit of time....NZ Racing was a sinking ship , barely any life left and its many terminal illnesses cant be fixed in 12-24 months ...be fair ,and realistic. If only Messara and Wpeters had arrived earlier ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 12 hours ago, Special Agent said: All jokes aside, what is stopping you from joining a racing club committee? If your ideas are too whacky for a racing club, they will soon tell you. Some clubs need an outside the box thinker. If you don't have a go you don't know your worth. Haha...some say 'empty vessels make the most noise '. Firstly I'm too old ...too long in tooth and probably spent more time in volunteers roles than working for $$. And now days it ain't easy ,as in general but specially in sport clubs the committees are fill of folk with seriously conflicted and personal bias. They don't like change .Often there is an excess of red tape and a shortage of money and infrastructure. Especially lack of money a huge handbrake. Board folk with governance or 'special skills often have no passion or feel for their position. And people all have different opinions and often refuse to budge so decisions become difficult to make and agree on. I've had a crack at a few things and had some success.IMO Some racing roles would a 'nightmare'...eg ATC My enjoyment from racing comes from enjoying ownership in a few horses, attending race meetings ,chatting to participants and having a few bets. The odd glance at eye candy too...haha ! I'll match wits with anyone and tell a YARN , and negativity is a turn off...if an interest gets you down ,makes you angry or behave badly then try something else ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 9 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: I'll match wits with anyone and tell a YARN , and negativity is a turn off...if an interest gets you down ,makes you angry or behave badly then try something else ! Generally the trend in racing IS to try something else. Not because of negativity but because the fundamental issues are never fixed. Ask any trainer how hard it is to be positive when you turn up to a Premier Track with your valuable horses that you've been training for months to find the track is unsafe or biased or worse the meeting is abandoned. Not to mention that you have been struggling to train that horse on your local track because it is substandard most of the time. Or the struggle to get a decent trackwork rider that understands pace and does what is instructed. Let alone trying to find a race programme to actually get a start for your horse. Then you have success when you have to race out of your grade and are then handicapped out of racing. Yep being an owner is the easy option. Hell you don't have to turn up until raceday and when the bar is open. Why don't you @TAB For Ever get up early in the morning for a week and go help out at the stable. Look, listen and find out what the those doing the hard yards are experiencing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Generally the trend in racing IS to try something else. Not because of negativity but because the fundamental issues are never fixed. Ask any trainer how hard it is to be positive when you turn up to a Premier Track with your valuable horses that you've been training for months to find the track is unsafe or biased or worse the meeting is abandoned. Not to mention that you have been struggling to train that horse on your local track because it is substandard most of the time. Or the struggle to get a decent trackwork rider that understands pace and does what is instructed. Let alone trying to find a race programme to actually get a start for your horse. Then you have success when you have to race out of your grade and are then handicapped out of racing. Yep being an owner is the easy option. Hell you don't have to turn up until raceday and when the bar is open. Why don't you @TAB For Ever get up early in the morning for a week and go help out at the stable. Look, listen and find out what the those doing the hard yards are experiencing. Could be post of the year Chief....blame ,blame ,blame...always the other guys fault. If it was easy everyone would do it..... Used to shovel a bit of horse poo in younger days and save the clean straw from the urine stuff. And worked 24/7 jobs. The trainers I most familiar with loved their jobs , many got their family involved ...the young ones involved today love it . I driven a few tractors around training tracks with a plough etc on the back......seen how a stable works. The successful ones just get on with it , others just blame others . Accept 100% accountability for your actions...Don't cry , CREATE ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 17 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: And Orchestral won 3 x times on new Ellerslie track.....you banged on about that unsafe track...Orchestral didn't believe you . She loved it...music to her hairs ! She could win anywhere even on a crap Rosehill track. Although it took a fair effort to do so. The facts are the Ellerslie track on KM night was unsafe. Anywhere else in NZ with a lesser meeting it would have been abandoned. I doubt if those at the coal face that you allege to have a relationship with would say any different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 17 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: Should have closed many tracks 50 years ago...in early days of NZ racing they closed many tracks ,should have closed many more. Too much personal bias on conflict of Interest in keeping lame ducks open too long ! Based on what criteria? Surface? ROI? I would suggest on most decent KPI's Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni, Trentham and Riccarton would have been closed. But no let's sell the industry silver and close the decent tracks and clubs down and let the parasitic top 5 suck up all the resources. Rome burns Nero fiddles. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 6 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: The successful ones just get on with it , others just blame others . No the successful ones play an ever diminishing game of wearing blinkers and tongue ties. Or move to OZ. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 18 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: No the successful ones play an ever diminishing game of wearing blinkers and tongue ties. Or move to OZ. And so the better more ambitious ones should....Aussie racing among the best and richist in world. But Auusie racing has it's issues too....if it was easy everyone would do it. Makes cents...same as most industries/sports/jobs in NZ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 18 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Based on what criteria? Surface? ROI? I would suggest on most decent KPI's Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni, Trentham and Riccarton would have been closed. But no let's sell the industry silver and close the decent tracks and clubs down and let the parasitic top 5 suck up all the resources. Rome burns Nero fiddles. Again your reading of History rather narrow minded. Most Historians DON'T blame Nero for the great fire of Rome ! Please remember...If you change the way you look at things ,the things you look at change ! Looks very much like Awapuni track renovation taking shape , a very informative video just out on Racing This Time TV. Look for the good stuff in it ! And remind me again of the decent tracks and clubs that have been closed down .....I think you have mentioned ONE, Foxton which still runs great trials ,so very much still operating ie NOT closed down ! There seems to be a strong bias on here toward it too ! As a poster with little conflict and bias I see a clearer picture ...IMO of course ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 14 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Again your reading of History rather narrow minded. Most Historians DON'T blame Nero for the great fire of Rome ! It is a metaphor that may have some historical foundation. The metaphor is that while a bigger crisis was occurring those in charge stuffed around with minutiae. That is played with spiders. 16 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Please remember...If you change the way you look at things ,the things you look at change ! Staring in the mirror isn't going to change the way you look. You should know that by now. Although if you stand there long enough you may notice you are ageing. 17 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: And remind me again of the decent tracks and clubs that have been closed down .....I think you have mentioned ONE, Foxton which still runs great trials ,so very much still operating ie NOT closed down ! There seems to be a strong bias on here toward it too ! As a poster with little conflict and bias I see a clearer picture ...IMO of course ! Ring around a few CD Trainers. They obviously look at things differently to you as well as the majority didn't want an AWT just a decent turf track that they could race and train on. 18 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Looks very much like Awapuni track renovation taking shape , What renovation iteration is that now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: It is a metaphor that may have some historical foundation. The metaphor is that while a bigger crisis was occurring those in charge stuffed around with minutiae. That is played with spiders. Staring in the mirror isn't going to change the way you look. You should know that by now. Although if you stand there long enough you may notice you are ageing. Ring around a few CD Trainers. They obviously look at things differently to you as well as the majority didn't want an AWT just a decent turf track that they could race and train on. What renovation iteration is that now? Well its your big opportunity for input to track renovation Chief. The sand layer is about to be completed....you have a lot of knowledge about sand layers on race tracks.....and the grass seed is about to be sown and the drainage etc completed. They have weekly meetings on progress , talk to like minded track folk including Aussies and bounce ideas off each other to increase their chances of success. You need to get involved...don't wait till the first raceday and the inevitable problem arises and you bang on about what should have happened etc etc Its your chance to contribute....I'm absolutely confident that if you had some input to the 'new' Awapuni track , that track would become OK , proving what I often read on here. If you Change the way you look at things, the things you look at change ! When the Awapuni Synthetic was gifted to the CD , I thought I read where a number of the 'bigger' trainers supported it , maybe couldn't look a gift horse etc but with racing folk a consensus well nigh impossible. And always get a % of negative folk....I even heard the good Foxton track was considered by some as 'too hard' earlier in week . But I not one to gossip and know very little re CD other that regular trips to Trentham since I was a foetus ,and never lived in CD.But I always thought it had a silly number of tracks and clubs . Get that input in re Awapuni track Chief.......NOW ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: The sand layer is about to be completed....you have a lot of knowledge about sand layers on race tracks.....and the grass seed is about to be sown and the drainage etc completed. That's the problem. We are putting too much sand in our tracks. I don't know where this recommendation originates from but in my opinion it defies everything I was taught about drainage and turf culture at Lincoln. It might work on a Links Golf Course but a racing surface for 500kg Thoroughbreds is a different kettle of fish altogether. One drawback with sand is you HAVE to irrigate frequently as there is no buffer in the substrate. Hence the bloody big hole in the ground at Ellerslie. Clearly the 300mm of sand piled on top a customised StrathAyr system at Ellerslie is problematic. The years of verti-draining and sand slitting hasn't helped either Te Rapa or Riccarton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: And always get a % of negative folk....I even heard the good Foxton track was considered by some as 'too hard' earlier in week . It would be interesting to hear @curious's take on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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