Brodie Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 We all know that there is a big shortage of Junior Drivers in the North Island. The North Island racing is pretty much on life support at the moment and is trying to hang in there and hopefully survive. Entain is chucking money at it as part of their agreement with the NZ TAB, for the granting of them controlling rights for 25 long years! Interesting that there is only 7 starters in the Junior’s race at Cambridge on Friday night, there are only 2 males and 5 females, so it is showing that without females involved in harness then things would be dire! Entain are pushing this “the future starts now” thing so if they can not attract more horses, more owners, more trainers and more punters, then the future is very bleak, I suggest that the TAB/ Entain start listening to the public before it all goes belly up! Who really believes that throwing the money into the NZCup, Slot races and age group racing is going to be the saviour? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 How are you rating the performance on new HRNZ CEO Brad Steele so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 3 hours ago, Brodie said: The North Island racing is pretty much on life support at the moment and is trying to hang in there and hopefully survive. Entain is chucking money at it as part of their agreement with the NZ TAB, for the granting of them controlling rights for 25 long years The Entain boss is chipping in and Currently racing 17 horses in the North to prop it up a bit. Com'on Brodster. don't die wondering mate. Buy a horse and get it racing in the North to support the industry. These small fields you grizzle about make it much much easier to win too. fantastic. Here are 4 of the BEST NZ Sportsmen OF ALL TIME. NORTH ISlanders and 3 of them are still Going !! support the World champions. They are near the Best on the planet, and you want to shut them down ? don't Do it ya mugs. who is ahead of them in NZ world sport ? John Walker ? Sir Edmund Hilary (if mountain climbing is a sport) 'Pumper ' Cassidy, Sir Richard Hadlee ? that's about all I can think of lol. they're my TOP 4 of all time kiwi Sportspeople. (in photo below) Mikey and Ranga might know more. Keep the North Island going and these Champions of NZ (and the world) in business . It's just a sport . People can still participate for fun (like Golf) doesn't have to run as a profit. Participants can pay their way? in the Slot races? . And they are . someone is showing some initiative at least. the trot slot was great. The Race by Grins was excellent. Bring it On !!!! The Aussies only got the chocolates in one of them with Just Believe. (sorry about the Nz and Auckland Cups) but you can't have all the luck 😅 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 16 Author Share Posted July 16 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: The Entain boss is chipping in and Currently racing 17 horses in the North to prop it up a bit. Com'on Brodster. don't die wondering mate. Buy a horse and get it racing in the North to support the industry. These small fields you grizzle about make it much much easier to win too. fantastic. Here are 4 of the BEST NZ Sportsmen OF ALL TIME. NORTH ISlanders and 3 of them are still Going !! support the World champions. They are near the Best on the planet, and you want to shut them down ? don't Do it ya mugs. who is ahead of them in NZ world sport ? John Walker ? Sir Edmund Hilary (if mountain climbing is a sport) 'Pumper ' Cassidy, Sir Richard Hadlee ? that's about all I can think of lol. they're my TOP 4 of all time kiwi Sportspeople. (in photo below) Mikey and Ranga might know more. Keep the North Island going and these Champions of NZ (and the world) in business . It's just a sport . People can still participate for fun (like Golf) doesn't have to run as a profit. Participants can pay their way? in the Slot races? . And they are . someone is showing some initiative at least. the trot slot was great. The Race by Grins was excellent. Bring it On !!!! The Aussies only got the chocolates in one of them with Just Believe. (sorry about the Nz and Auckland Cups) but you can't have all the luck 😅 I want harness racing to survive in the North Island obviously. It is going to be very difficult to see how it is going to survive with the way things are up there! They need owners prepared to race horses and they need punters! Personally do not think it is that bright for HRNZ chucking in large amounts of money into Slot races?? The race stakes surely are large enough with the slot holders paying into the race stake as it is really just a transfer of money between the slot holders! I believe stupid decisions like this is not necessary and no advantage whatsoever for harness racing and this money could be used in a far more beneficial way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 2 hours ago, Gammalite said: who is ahead of them in NZ world sport ? John Walker ? Sir Edmund Hilary (if mountain climbing is a sport) 'Pumper ' Cassidy, Sir Richard Hadlee ? that's about all I can think of lol. George Wilder was mostly a pretty good sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 6 hours ago, Brodie said: We all know that there is a big shortage of Junior Drivers in the North Island. The North Island racing is pretty much on life support at the moment and is trying to hang in there and hopefully survive. Entain is chucking money at it as part of their agreement with the NZ TAB, for the granting of them controlling rights for 25 long years! Interesting that there is only 7 starters in the Junior’s race at Cambridge on Friday night, there are only 2 males and 5 females, so it is showing that without females involved in harness then things would be dire! Entain are pushing this “the future starts now” thing so if they can not attract more horses, more owners, more trainers and more punters, then the future is very bleak, I suggest that the TAB/ Entain start listening to the public before it all goes belly up! Who really believes that throwing the money into the NZCup, Slot races and age group racing is going to be the saviour? And don't they drive well ....the girls ! Can't have more than 7 drivers if only 7 horses to run...maybe something to do with the lousy $10k stake . There are at least 4 x other Juniors driving on the night , yes 3 are girls. But get out more Brodie...in recent years a female was considered the best driver in NZ [Natalie] and Sarah and Olivia shone in Group races as well along with Samantha. And the thoroughbreds...where would our riding ranks be without the girls . And leading jumps rider too ! Horses rrun for the girls ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 16 Author Share Posted July 16 20 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: TAB, certainly was not saying that girls/ females can not drive ! quite the opposite really, just appreciating that we have the females in racing, otherwise there would be no Junior races in the North! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 1 hour ago, Brodie said: I want harness racing to survive in the North Island obviously. It is going to be very difficult to see how it is going to survive with the way things are up there! They need owners prepared to race horses and they need punters! Personally do not think it is that bright for HRNZ chucking in large amounts of money into Slot races?? The race stakes surely are large enough with the slot holders paying into the race stake as it is really just a transfer of money between the slot holders! I believe stupid decisions like this is not necessary and no advantage whatsoever for harness racing and this money could be used in a far more beneficial way! Well they are going to do slot races at the gallops now as well in NZ. so the general opinion must be they are the way to go with the ENormous success of the Everest in recent years . The New harness Eureka and Nullibor in Oz and Grins and TAB slot trot at Cambridge harness racing has been a success so far with Big prizes and International competition, and NEW people from companies involved in the slots taking an interest in the sport. just the boost it needs. Can't work out Why any of that is silly. Even the public have a great day out on those occasions. owner 'Boots' has already been spending Big in NZ and bought several horses and placed with many different trainers since his success with ''Betterzippit he bought from New Zealand 2 years ago and winning the Nullibor slot race. . this benefits NZ breeders greatly !!! BUT you are losing your numbers of race winning capable horses? . but it is a boost for the Breeding industry I guess. recent NZ Messenger winner Mach Shard just completed several months overseas . and Woodham (when the CEO of NZHR ) campaigned Cash N Flow for years overseas and even the Mangos horse SouthCoast Arden for a while as well. so the NZ CEO was supporting Aus harness as we do better programming in Australia than NZ rather than his own industry ? crazy stuff . So NZ needs more of these big races, like slots, to keep the ''stars racing AT Home. The young horses seem to get a 'reasonable' go of it with features through the year at least . like harness millions and that sort of thing. If you don't program some good FFA's and Slots to see the likes ''Sundee trot, and Akuta and Copy That and Cup horses like them Pace and win then your fields will get weak ? and the Aussies will turn Up and mug you at home. Waaaaaiit Up!!! Swayzee? Just Believe ? Better Eclipse ? Oh No , It's already happening....🙄 and LEAP TO Fame hasn't even arrived yet. Might be too late for Nz harness . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 11 hours ago, Brodie said: I want harness racing to survive in the North Island obviously. It is going to be very difficult to see how it is going to survive with the way things are up there! They need owners prepared to race horses and they need punters! Personally do not think it is that bright for HRNZ chucking in large amounts of money into Slot races?? The race stakes surely are large enough with the slot holders paying into the race stake as it is really just a transfer of money between the slot holders! I believe stupid decisions like this is not necessary and no advantage whatsoever for harness racing and this money could be used in a far more beneficial way! Unfortunately you are wide of the wide with your slot race assumptions. Part of the reason a number of people didn't buy Race By Grins slots is because initially HRNZ barely contributed anything to it. There needs to be a matching investment from the code on top of the total of the slots. In this case, the slots will total $300,000 and the code/Entain is chipping in $200,000 which is reasonable. I doubt there are the horses to make these two races viable though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 16 Author Share Posted July 16 9 hours ago, Gammalite said: Well they are going to do slot races at the gallops now as well in NZ. so the general opinion must be they are the way to go with the ENormous success of the Everest in recent years . The New harness Eureka and Nullibor in Oz and Grins and TAB slot trot at Cambridge harness racing has been a success so far with Big prizes and International competition, and NEW people from companies involved in the slots taking an interest in the sport. just the boost it needs. Can't work out Why any of that is silly. Even the public have a great day out on those occasions. owner 'Boots' has already been spending Big in NZ and bought several horses and placed with many different trainers since his success with ''Betterzippit he bought from New Zealand 2 years ago and winning the Nullibor slot race. . this benefits NZ breeders greatly !!! BUT you are losing your numbers of race winning capable horses? . but it is a boost for the Breeding industry I guess. recent NZ Messenger winner Mach Shard just completed several months overseas . and Woodham (when the CEO of NZHR ) campaigned Cash N Flow for years overseas and even the Mangos horse SouthCoast Arden for a while as well. so the NZ CEO was supporting Aus harness as we do better programming in Australia than NZ rather than his own industry ? crazy stuff . So NZ needs more of these big races, like slots, to keep the ''stars racing AT Home. The young horses seem to get a 'reasonable' go of it with features through the year at least . like harness millions and that sort of thing. If you don't program some good FFA's and Slots to see the likes ''Sundee trot, and Akuta and Copy That and Cup horses like them Pace and win then your fields will get weak ? and the Aussies will turn Up and mug you at home. Waaaaaiit Up!!! Swayzee? Just Believe ? Better Eclipse ? Oh No , It's already happening....🙄 and LEAP TO Fame hasn't even arrived yet. Might be too late for Nz harness . I didnt say Slot races were bad! What I said was that I did not see the need for HRNZ to be chucking in hundreds thousands into the Slot races, when they didnt need to or afford to!!! The big players will out the money up and race without the HRNZ money, which would be far better being applied to lower class meetings. Slot races are fine for the big players but really does it actually do anything to retain the participant's that are struggling financially? It is only a transfer of funds between the participants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 14 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: Unfortunately you are wide of the wide with your slot race assumptions. Part of the reason a number of people didn't buy Race By Grins slots is because initially HRNZ barely contributed anything to it. There needs to be a matching investment from the code on top of the total of the slots. In this case, the slots will total $300,000 and the code/Entain is chipping in $200,000 which is reasonable. I doubt there are the horses to make these two races viable though. wide of the mark** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 16 Author Share Posted July 16 14 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: Unfortunately you are wide of the wide with your slot race assumptions. Part of the reason a number of people didn't buy Race By Grins slots is because initially HRNZ barely contributed anything to it. There needs to be a matching investment from the code on top of the total of the slots. In this case, the slots will total $300,000 and the code/Entain is chipping in $200,000 which is reasonable. I doubt there are the horses to make these two races viable though. So putting $200k into Slot races so the wealthier owners can race is money well spent fir the industry to survive? I say NO, but then we know who the ones that benefit from it don’t we? The thing is we need intelligent decisions to be made for harness racing to survive, and personally, I am not seeing too many of them at all, Anyway, we are entitled to an opinion and we will agree to disagree, but at the end of the day, the decisions being made will be what makes harness racing survive or not! I wouldn't be holding my breath relying on people that think chucking hundreds of thousands of industry funds into a few races for the wealthier owners to claim! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 3 hours ago, Brodie said: It is only a transfer of funds between the participants. Well that has always happened mate. you're well on the money there. like breeders selling at sales, and trainers selling off their racing stock overseas, etc etc. The Major participants pay their way and are getting the results they deserve finally. ENTAIN boss Shannon, Chris Garrard, and Kevin Seymour = all multi millionaires who pour millions into the game (sport) to keep it going over the years . 3 of the high flyers who support breeding industry and Chris does the Horse and Hound business , and sponsors $1,000,000 + every year from his profits. (In both our countries) meanwhile, The HRNZ allocates their funding for the season , as Harness clubs do everywhere . You're not happy with How They Allocate It ?? They've got experts that do this sort of thing. They're Not flying blind. We just had a feature trot last Saturday for 3 and 4 year old trotters worth $150,000. Alas the kiwi scratched with injury but How neat a Feature was Put on . The Race by GRINS is a FEATURE Race of the International Racing Calender and if they only have to put in a piddley amount , then how good is that. The participants can pay instead. Dean Shannon currently racing Merlin , and Kevin Seymour racing Leap To Fame .am sure they are Quite happy to pay for a SLot in Slot races too. I believe Chris Garrard finally has his best horse ever too !. I'll keep you posted on progress there. Very excited to think these 3 wonderful contributors to the sport over decades, could have the 3 best horses racing. NZ Cup beckons for a couple of them soon ? bring it on 🏆😁. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: Well that has always happened mate. you're well on the money there. like breeders selling at sales, and trainers selling off their racing stock overseas, etc etc. The Major participants pay their way and are getting the results they deserve finally. ENTAIN boss Shannon, Chris Garrard, and Kevin Seymour = all multi millionaires who pour millions into the game (sport) to keep it going over the years . 3 of the high flyers who support breeding industry and Chris does the Horse and Hound business , and sponsors $1,000,000 + every year from his profits. (In both our countries) meanwhile, The HRNZ allocates their funding for the season , as Harness clubs do everywhere . You're not happy with How They Allocate It ?? They've got experts that do this sort of thing. They're Not flying blind. We just had a feature trot last Saturday for 3 and 4 year old trotters worth $150,000. Alas the kiwi scratched with injury but How neat a Feature was Put on . The Race by GRINS is a FEATURE Race of the International Racing Calender and if they only have to put in a piddley amount , then how good is that. The participants can pay instead. Dean Shannon currently racing Merlin , and Kevin Seymour racing Leap To Fame .am sure they are Quite happy to pay for a SLot in Slot races too. I believe Chris Garrard finally has his best horse ever too !. I'll keep you posted on progress there. Very excited to think these 3 wonderful contributors to the sport over decades, could have the 3 best horses racing. NZ Cup beckons for a couple of them soon ? bring it on 🏆😁. My point is that they would fun the slot races without the need to add industry $ that can not afford it! The amounts being added this year to races us hundreds of thousands if $. Great that there are these wealthier people putting in hesls to the industry that needs it. My point is that we need to retain the battler in the sport and this is certainly not going to help one iota. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, Brodie said: My point is that they would fun the slot races without the need to add industry $ that can not afford it! It's almost like they think they have more money than you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, Brodie said: My point is that they would fun the slot races without the need to add industry $ that can not afford it! The amounts being added this year to races us hundreds of thousands if $. Great that there are these wealthier people putting in hesls to the industry that needs it. My point is that we need to retain the battler in the sport and this is certainly not going to help one iota. Fair comment. The Battlers (trainers with only a handful of horses and/or the ''occasional bush driver) aren't gunna get too involved in a Group race or those slot races. But doesn't NZ Cater for the Battlers already? with some great racing every Sunday through the year ? They seem to do a good job of it really. they can dream of a slot lol. And in the North, just give them a Regular Raceday and Night every week at Cambridge . And 2 Junior driver races every meeting to keep them young drivers interested. (the bloody amateurs can just have a non TAB race in -between the TAB races , have 2 of them even . they'll love going around twice. race for a $1000 will do them on the really slow horses lol ) You need Regular racing so the horses have a chance to pay their way and people can enjoy some wins. Problems all solved in seconds lol 😆😂 eeesy peeesy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, Rangatira said: It's almost like they think they have more money than you!!! I would not be putting money into something that is self funding as per the Slot Races! What HRNZ is doing is throwing away money into the Slot Races when the races would have occurred without HRNZ chucking big money into them. To be fair I do not think that too many of the salaried employees currently employed actually are that knowledgeable with financial things! Too many very poor decisions is what has caused the issues that we currently have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: Fair comment. The Battlers (trainers with only a handful of horses and/or the ''occasional bush driver) aren't gunna get too involved in a Group race or those slot races. But doesn't NZ Cater for the Battlers already? with some great racing every Sunday through the year ? They seem to do a good job of it really. they can dream of a slot lol. And in the North, just give them a Regular Raceday and Night every week at Cambridge . And 2 Junior driver races every meeting to keep them young drivers interested. (the bloody amateurs can just have a non TAB race in -between the TAB races , have 2 of them even . they'll love going around twice. race for a $1000 will do them on the really slow horses lol ) You need Regular racing so the horses have a chance to pay their way and people can enjoy some wins. Problems all solved in seconds lol 😆😂 eeesy peeesy. Entain and HRNZ are saying that punters want consistency with when the Clubs race, so that is why they are are having Cambridge on the Tuesday and Auckland and Addington on the Friday night! As a punter, I say Bollacks! This does not suit punters at all, quite the opposite. Having the same horses race week in and week out at the same course in my opinion just causes punters to get the stitch and can not be bothered offloading. Having variety is what we need not the same old same old, and short odds every week! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 23 minutes ago, Brodie said: Having the same horses race week in and week out at the same course in my opinion just causes punters to get the stitch and can not be bothered offloading. Having variety is what we need not the same old same old, and short odds every week Exactly right. We do that here in QLD (and most areas of Australia) all year round and is very hard to bet on . so most (including me ) don't bet on them hardly at all. (many punters betting just the Gallops with lots of carnivals and variety of horses, distances etc and better odds.). The NZ trots is still good for variety , even having Junior driver races like you mentioned for this thread, Which is totally EXCELLENT. gives the youngsters a go. Also grass tracks, wrong way round, 2 miles , big fields, lots of stuff. and yes the racing is boring in Aus generally (except feature race nights ) and short distance too, (so the horses can back up the next week ok and not be too flattened) . NZ will be running more short distance racing soon for the same reason actually. Just a footnote why the regular dates, and restricted field sizes means More wins for each horse across the year of harness racing. There are race results and probability models that show your horses chances of returning a profit, and winning a race within it's capabilities. The Handicapper uses the ratings system to enhance these prospects for the Owners. in every state. something NZ doesn't have as yet . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 19 hours ago, Gammalite said: Exactly right. We do that here in QLD (and most areas of Australia) all year round and is very hard to bet on . so most (including me ) don't bet on them hardly at all. (many punters betting just the Gallops with lots of carnivals and variety of horses, distances etc and better odds.). The NZ trots is still good for variety , even having Junior driver races like you mentioned for this thread, Which is totally EXCELLENT. gives the youngsters a go. Also grass tracks, wrong way round, 2 miles , big fields, lots of stuff. and yes the racing is boring in Aus generally (except feature race nights ) and short distance too, (so the horses can back up the next week ok and not be too flattened) . NZ will be running more short distance racing soon for the same reason actually. Just a footnote why the regular dates, and restricted field sizes means More wins for each horse across the year of harness racing. There are race results and probability models that show your horses chances of returning a profit, and winning a race within it's capabilities. The Handicapper uses the ratings system to enhance these prospects for the Owners. in every state. something NZ doesn't have as yet . Yet NZ are programming more boring races and putting the emphasis on big-ticket races at the expense of lower-grade ones. Weak funding for grassroots events will cause small-scale trainers and owners, who are crucial to the sport to die a slow death. I am in this basket as are many others I have talked to who are giving up on harness racing ownership in the face of rising inflation while stakes for low grade races are not increasing enough to support rising costs. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 22 hours ago, Brodie said: As a punter, I say Bollacks! This does not suit punters at all, quite the opposite. How will you get your fix on a Thursday evening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 2 hours ago, Rangatira said: How will you get your fix on a Thursday evening? Watch Coronation Street? Personally think that the TAB would have more turnover with Thursday snd Friday meetings rather than Auckland and Addington competing for the $. Auckland is going to struggle as punters much prefer Addington! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Slope Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 31 minutes ago, Brodie said: Watch Coronation Street? Personally think that the TAB would have more turnover with Thursday snd Friday meetings rather than Auckland and Addington competing for the $. Auckland is going to struggle as punters much prefer Addington! And when you put these two products side by side and give the punter a choice (versus having no need to make a choice 24 hours apart) the punter with limited money to spend in then evening will presumably usually choose the product which offers best value for a return on their form study and their $- that is the bigger field, the better dividends, the track with the better setup to give more horses a chance to win etc etc. BUT To be fair to Entain, the two products side by side virtually every Friday night may attract more regular punter support and thus more turnover overall, too early to know. But if the average Addington race has c.10 starters whilst Alexandra Park can only get an average of 8, as you say Brodie its likely to be Addington that pulls most of those extra $, and if so the subsidy from South to North to pay equivalent stakes at each venue will only grow. Addington could keep bringing in even more $ as share of turnover vs Alexandra Park, if FNL does bring in more punters and $. But if so just to keep Alexandra Park afloat and give stakeholders up there more than $4k per race of their stakemoney that extra $ would all be coming out of the increased profit from betting on Addington. This seems a truly weird way to run a business. It will be really bad if no transparency comes from HRNZ 6/ 12 months from now on what cross subsidy $ have been thrown into Alexandra Park and Cambirdge out of Canterbury, under new dates model vs old,and what the outcome from this change is overall especially between the two venues and North vs South with ref to share of betting revenue earned vs stakes subsidies paid out. Not holding my breath, but reporting on the FNL project should be both regular and transparent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Of course Alexandra Park recently was upgraded back up to a 'Premier' track , presumably by Entain ,as HRNZ demoted it from this status last year and stuck them on many Thursdays ! It therefore in the immediate future will continue to run Group 1 and elite races...at night under the ribbon. In a recent "Campbells Comments' interview the ATC President was defiant saying ATC contribute a lot to their stakes and he expects a bigger handout from HRNZ cos NZMetro gets much significantly more for its Derby and Oaks races than the ATC. And he pointed out that Auckland region has the biggest sponsors ,the biggest breeders , the biggest and best this and the best that ...on historical results obviously Entain thinks it has the biggest potential. It certainly gone to a low base currently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 16 hours ago, Brodie said: Watch Coronation Street? long as your boat remains afloat is Annie Walker still Mine Host at the Rovers Return ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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