No Racing Calandar, 2025, 2026, yet.

[mikeynz]

Not far from June and dates not out yet, or not published anyway, recent times with many tracks not functional,  the CD area especially, Awapuni, Hawkes Bay etc etc, it proves that you can rewrite the calandar as regards venues, no reason they couldn't reset the whole Calandar, start again.

[Dark Beau]

6 hours ago, mikeynz said:

Not far from June and dates not out yet, or not published anyway, recent times with many tracks not functional,  the CD area especially, Awapuni, Hawkes Bay etc etc, it proves that you can rewrite the calandar as regards venues, no reason they couldn't reset the whole Calandar, start again.

And ask Trentham to race every second weekend like they have this year? 

Surely not.

But seriously I agree with you. Set the dates and if necessary change as you go.

At least give us Owners some idea.

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Dark Beau said:

And ask Trentham to race every second weekend like they have this year? 

Fake news.  But I guess 12 meetings in 12 months is a bit taxing for Trentham i.e. once every FOUR weeks.

15 minutes ago, Dark Beau said:

But seriously I agree with you. Set the dates and if necessary change as you go.

It isn't about setting dates it is about setting a pattern/programme that allows horses to progress through the grades and distances as required.  I realise that concept might be beyond you but then you are in good company given it seems NZTR aren't much better.

17 minutes ago, Dark Beau said:

At least give us Owners some idea.

LOL idea of what?

[Special Agent]

I believe there is a draft calendar that has been out for some time and seen by ... not sure how many.

[mikeynz]

7 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

I believe there is a draft calendar that has been out for some time and seen by ... not sure how many.

February, ......way things are in CD especially the official calandar may well be a draft one still, but a whole new dates refreshed calandar would do no. harm, does the gallops need 2 Sunday meetings?.

[Dark Beau]

 14 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

And ask Trentham to race every second weekend like they have this year? 

The Chief Stipes response was:

Fake news.  But I guess 12 meetings in 12 months is a bit taxing for Trentham i.e. once every FOUR weeks.

Well these are the facts:

1 January 25 to 17 May 25:

Jan 3 days

Feb 0 days

Mar 3 days

Apr 1 day

May 2 days to date.

That's 9 days on four and a half months this year!

Throw in Dec 3 days and that's 12 days in five and a half months!

 

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

 14 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

And ask Trentham to race every second weekend like they have this year? 

The Chief Stipes response was:

Fake news.  But I guess 12 meetings in 12 months is a bit taxing for Trentham i.e. once every FOUR weeks.

Well these are the facts:

1 January 25 to 17 May 25:

Jan 3 days

Feb 0 days

Mar 3 days

Apr 1 day

May 2 days to date.

That's 9 days on four and a half months this year!

Throw in Dec 3 days and that's 12 days in five and a half months!

 

But that's it isn't it.  They've had 16 meetings in 12 months!!  NO Trials!  NO Jumpouts!  

Don't forget there were only an extra 3 meetings due to transfers!  Hardly a profit making situation is it!!!

FFS no wonder the track was "OK" on Saturday!  Champagne Turf treated with silk gloves!!!!

By comparison over the same period Flemington had 67 Race Meetings (22), Jumpouts and Trials.  The latter two being equivalent to a Trentham Race meeting!

The VRC had a loss of AUD$24 Million!

Do you @Dark Beau seriously think that Trentham is viable? With a track that needs serious renovation, a new irrigation system, an electronic timing system, new stalls and facilities for horses, serious repairs to existing buildings AND NO resident horse population, no trials, no jumpouts.  Declining membership and a total lack of interest from the Wellington population!!!

[Chief Stipe]

Forgot to add the VRC has a membership of 34,000+.

The Wellington Racing Club - 403.  

Manawatu Racing Club - 112

Marton Jockey Club - 34

Rangitikei Racing Club - 18

Feilding Jockey Club - 30

Hawkes Bay Racing Club - approx. 340.

 

Forgot to add @Dark Beau - the WRC normally only gets allocation 10 race meetings in a year.  Awapuni 14 meetings.  

[mikeynz]

Wellington Cup day is more than likely the only days most probably go racing in the capital but that's par for the course for most race clubs  Ellerslies crowds are poor for the size of the place as Auckland don't care about horse racing, question is does it make sense spending upgrading facilities for a once in a blue moon event, Trentham may be wiser to move elsewhere.

Plenty of sporting stadiums like that too though, Dunedin Stadiums becoming a non event, will be worse when Christchurch gets going, North Harbour stadium had a good crowd last night, with no one supporting the Blues at Eden Park be fair to assume most at the ground were supporting the Pacific side which symbolizes the demographic changes occurring in our society, no different to the Warriers, league is the domain of the Pacific community, people are becoming selective about what they attend, but some of these big stadiums with no crowds is never a good experience.

That Wellington stadium when mostly empty is a poor look whether it's the Phoenix or the Hurricanes, or the Black Caps, seems Wellingtonions have given up on the NPC just as Aucklanders have

[mikeynz]

Racing would be smarter to spend on making the product better for the participants rather than the public, better tracks etc etc, that's why many of the rural venues with lower overheads makes better fiscal sense.

 

[Special Agent]

12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Forgot to add the VRC has a membership of 34,000+.

The Wellington Racing Club - 403.  

Manawatu Racing Club - 112

Marton Jockey Club - 34

Rangitikei Racing Club - 18

Feilding Jockey Club - 30

Hawkes Bay Racing Club - approx. 340.

 

Forgot to add @Dark Beau - the WRC normally only gets allocation 10 race meetings in a year.  Awapuni 14 meetings.  

The membership numbers highlight the disaster in any club joining RACE.  Has Ashurst Pohangina got no members remaining?  The old boys of the clubs would tell you what the assets of each joining club paid for.  Ashurst Pohangina may have purchased the land in Te Wanaka Road for training stables which has been sold (or partially sold) for the development which has stalled due to various ongoing problems.

I notice on here Trentham is noted several times as having no horse training population.  This should not be considered an impediment.  It is widely accepted horse training operations run at a loss, with Cambridge and Matamata exceptions to that rule.  Like Trentham, Ellerslie has no training.

CD racing has an interesting training model.  The largest training centre is Awapuni which is well shy of the number of horses in training guaranteed in the application for the Provincial Growth Fund.  CD is an area which boasts large private training facilities, thus significant individual trainer investment.

Someone on here may have the figures of horse numbers trained at Riccarton and Rangiora which might support claims the latter is fast becoming a very important and strategic training venue, even since such reports as the Messara version came into being.  Quite an amazing evolution without, and perhaps against, traditional racing administration.  Thank goodness for cross code collaboration.

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, Special Agent said:

The membership numbers highlight the disaster in any club joining RACE.

What has it got to do with RACE or anything they have done?  Which Club membership numbers are you talking about? One in particular or all of them?

Bear in mind it isn't clear from the accounts if the 1000 members reported in the RACE acounts (which I didn't post above) is the total of all the clubs or just those that joined RACE to gain access to ALL 25 meetings at Awapuni and Trentham.

5 hours ago, Special Agent said:

as Ashurst Pohangina got no members remaining?  The old boys of the clubs would tell you what the assets of each joining club paid for.  Ashurst Pohangina may have purchased the land in Te Wanaka Road for training stables which has been sold (or partially sold) for the development which has stalled due to various ongoing problems.

The A-P Club doesn't exist any more.

5 hours ago, Special Agent said:

I notice on here Trentham is noted several times as having no horse training population.  This should not be considered an impediment.  It is widely accepted horse training operations run at a loss, with Cambridge and Matamata exceptions to that rule.  Like Trentham, Ellerslie has no training.

I didn't realise Trainers run their businesses as charities!  You miss the point entirely.  

Trentham and the WRC soley exist for RACING thoroughbreds.  That is the sole objective.  If there only source of revenue is from holding 12 race meetings a year and that obviously isn't enough to generate enough cash to fund maintenance then they have to be subsidised by the rest of the industry.  Or ENTAIN shareholders or some benovelent members.  WHERE ARE THE MILLIONS COMING FROM TO BRING TRENTHAM UP TO STANDARD?

To say that it is "widely accepted that training operations run at a loss" is naive to say the least.  Nearly ALL race meetings run at a loss at current stake levels i.e. they don't earn enough revenue to cover stakes let alone pay for proper Track maintenance. 

If training operations do run at a loss then there are two reasons - 

1. Trainers don't pay enough in fees (i.e. they are subsidised); or
2. The aren't enough horses trained at the track.

Therein lies the conundrum for the industry - the biggest asset a racing site has is its very large land area.  If you only use it for 12 meetings a year and nothing else to do with horses then it isn't an asset it is a liability.

So Cambridge and Matamata are financial because they have the horse numbers.  Mmmm - what does that tell you?

Ellerslie not having any training is a mistake in my opinion - however they do have Pukekohe.  Ellerslie had to sell their hill and put the cash in investments to keep funding the place.  They also have the advantage of a very good and well maintained event centre.  Does Trentham?

Trentham is now a potential cash sink hole - a bit like the Awapuni and Riccarton AWT's.

[Chief Stipe]

15 hours ago, mikeynz said:

Racing would be smarter to spend on making the product better for the participants rather than the public, better tracks etc etc, that's why many of the rural venues with lower overheads makes better fiscal sense.

 

Well that counts out the likes of Trentham!

What are the "lower overheads"?  List them.  I can only think of one and that is rates.

You still need the same number of track staff to maintain the track and buildings and those costs are the same for every track (depending on the state of your buildings of course).  The days of getting a good turnout of members or locals to a working bee have long gone.

Don't forget if you shift more racing to these "lower overhead tracks" then the maintenance demands go up.

[mikeynz]

At tracks like Trentham are many of the public facilities over capilised for their usefulness as more and more racecourse  become depopulated ?, racing clubs may need to move like Cricket has by having boutique type setups, having flash setups with no one there seems senseless.

Urbanization is putting the squeeze on some of these places , maybe moving is the best option.

Edited yesterday at 02:19 AM by mikeynz

[Dark Beau]

It’s a sunset industry. All of us oldies simply need to accept it. 

For the next five to ten years, if I can get another good horse that would be great BUT from a racing and club perspective there’s not really much to look forward too, especially the way the current management are running the going down of the sun. 

P.S. The last words are in no way a disrespect to the ANZAC’S. The use of the words, is simply a coincidence. 
 

 

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

14 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

It’s a sunset industry. All of us oldies simply need to accept it. 

No wonder Trentham is as run down as it is if its members are talking like that.  I guess you are taking the Nero approach.

14 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

For the next five to ten years, if I can get another good horse that would be great BUT from a racing and club perspective there’s not really much to look forward too, especially the way the current management are running the going down of the sun.

The "current management"?!  I suggest you look closely at yourself when you were in your prime rather than in your sunset.  The Wellington Racing Club only has themselves to blame for the situation they find themselves in.  You can blame those that have very little direct control over the Clubs assets for its demise if you wish but I suggest you look in the mirror a bit more closely.

So who are the "current management" that you are blaming?  

[Special Agent]

On 5/19/2025 at 9:06 AM, Chief Stipe said:

What are the "lower overheads"?  List them.  I can only think of one and that is rates.

One thing I think about costs to run a rural outfit as opposed to a city one appears to me to be a corporate expectation of the city employees.  I feel the overheads are lower in the country areas because of the roll up your sleeves mentality.  In my opinion people who live in suits seem a bit more precious, they don't take a cut lunch to work, don't source multiple quotes, can't wait for a better deal and quite like looking out over the empire.  There are some very knowledgeable and practical people out a bit.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Special Agent said:

One thing I think about costs to run a rural outfit as opposed to a city one appears to me to be a corporate expectation of the city employees.  I feel the overheads are lower in the country areas because of the roll up your sleeves mentality.  In my opinion people who live in suits seem a bit more precious, they don't take a cut lunch to work, don't source multiple quotes, can't wait for a better deal and quite like looking out over the empire.  There are some very knowledgeable and practical people out a bit.

None of that are OVERHEADS.  

[curious]

On 19/05/2025 at 9:06 AM, Chief Stipe said:

What are the "lower overheads"?  List them.  I can only think of one and that is rates.

I'd think that the lower capital requirement for land would be the main one wouldn't it?

[Chief Stipe]

32 minutes ago, curious said:

I'd think that the lower capital requirement for land would be the main one wouldn't it?

Sunk cost.  You could take a @TAB For Ever cost accountant approach and say there should be a return on the capital invested.  If you took that approach there wouldn't be a track in NZ that was profitable.

However most tracks have been subsidised because they pay lower rates as a non-profit organisation.  

Which is an interesting question.

How many Racing Clubs are actually tax paying companies?