Oncourse Tote Staff Push

[Special Agent]

Is it happening at every oncourse venue where the tote staff are pushing Fixed Odds bets over Tote?

Apparently you have to specify if you want a bet on the tote.

[Chief Stipe]

Where is the evidence they are pushing it?

Perhaps they are just assuming that people want Fixed Odds as that is the most popular option.

Either way the punter needs to specify otherwise how does the Tote operator know?   Then again how many people don't use their phone app to make a bet?  What proportion of oncourse punters don't know to specify the bet type?  Does it matter to new punters who are just there for a day out?

LOL in many respects they are likely to get a bargain if they bet early as often the Fixed Odds meander towards the tote odds.  In many respects wouldn't it be in ENTAIN's interest to promote the tote?  A bigger tote pool gives them more opportunity to lay off closer to start time.

[Special Agent]

Evidence - oncourse punters were talking about it.

I would have assumed fixed odds bets would be put on using a phone.

Questions were confusing to punters and slowed up the queues.  Tote staff were a little sharp with the customers, from all accounts.

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Evidence - oncourse punters were talking about it.

I would have assumed fixed odds bets would be put on using a phone.

Questions were confusing to punters and slowed up the queues.  Tote staff were a little sharp with the customers, from all accounts.

You can bet on a phone on Tote Odds.

But can you see the issue from a Tote Staff perspective?  The customer doesn't say what they want and then get issued a ticket and they turn around and say "NO I wanted a Fixed Odds ticket".

The tote staff then need to cancel and reissue.  By which time the fixed odds have probably changed!  I imagine some new customers don't even know what the tote is!!!

Perhaps some signage over the tote window!  But let's face it - it would probably be cheaper to have transportable betting pods for oncourse and a tote person standing beside helping customers.

[jess]

Interesting!  I assumed (for no particular reason other than fixed odd being a more recent addition to the betting menu) that tote was the default if not stipulated by the on-course customer. From now on I'll make sure I specify whichever way I'm betting. 

When on course I find most of the tote staff very pleasant but some of them seem super-slow & almost unfamiliar with the keyboards/menus/betting types.  I guess some of them may not work the machines all that often so possibly a bit out of practice. It's definitely handy to have the phone bet option.

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, jess said:

Interesting!  I assumed (for no particular reason other than fixed odd being a more recent addition to the betting menu) that tote was the default if not stipulated by the on-course customer. From now on I'll make sure I specify whichever way I'm betting. 

When on course I find most of the tote staff very pleasant but some of them seem super-slow & almost unfamiliar with the keyboards/menus/betting types.  I guess some of them may not work the machines all that often so possibly a bit out of practice. It's definitely handy to have the phone bet option.

To be fair there are a zillion options available on Fixed Odds.  I'm not sure what they will do going forward but a tote selling window is becoming redundant for lots of reasons.   The new pods are good.  Lots of payment options.

LOL would be interesting to a tote operator reaction at the races if you turned up with $1,000 in cash and 20 people behind you with 2 mins to the balloon going up.

[jess]

Oh for sure.  But I am betting pretty "basic", tbf.   

Haven't seen seen the pods on course.  Maybe I should get out more Chief? - get me a metro class of pony & check out the big city courses ....  

To be fair I was confused enough making a rare foray into a Maccas a while back & all the young ones were ordering at screens instead of talking to the humans behind the counters..  I did work it out & got me a big mac - but I rather more enjoyed my next takeaway meal at the local fish n chip shop - ordering from the 11 year old (whose maths was way sharper than mine) - then seeing mum prepare the feast (her English definitely not quite as good as mine)  -and dad wrap & hand it over with a smile.  With a bit of random people watching in the intervening time ....  a little bit of kiwi magic 😍  

[Chief Stipe]

@jess it really isn't that hard.  At the end of the day just give it a go.  The only advice is don't leave your money in the machine.

Do you have a TAB account?

[Ross E]

Sure do Chief! Hvnt been into an actual TAB for a while though - nor seen pods at courses.  If I did encounter a pod however - I'd like to think I'd manage to wrangle it. Especially if I made a start directly after the running of the previous race ....😜

[jess]

Me too! Have a TAB account - a credit card - but I have only country ponies at the moment! I'm with him! But I reckon I could do it too!  

There's no holding back technology ... embrace it  

[jess]

Still haven't worked out what situations to go fixed & what horses are more likely to drift out on the tote & pay more - some days it seems whatever you do - the opposite happens!  That's punting I guess ....

One thing I have noticed is there must be a bit of a delay in calculating/displaying dividends - because sometimes the last dividends you see displayed before they jump are quite different.  Perhaps inevitable with a few late last minute plunges ... 

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, jess said:

One thing I have noticed is there must be a bit of a delay in calculating/displaying dividends - because sometimes the last dividends you see displayed before they jump are quite different.  Perhaps inevitable with a few late last minute plunges ... 

Yep.  That's because there is a delay in updating the tote odds.  Why there is delay in have no idea but the big variances 600m into a race is because the computer has just calculated the TAB bookies lay offs.

[jess]

Ah ok.  Hence the howls of " that bl#*#y thing was paying $4.00 when backed it a minute ago - now it's won `n' paid $2.80!! "🤪 

[Mardy]

Haven't come across that situation re asking if it's a fixed odds bet,then again there aren't that many race meetings where i live these days lol. Mind you when i am on course i still prefer to use a bet slip rather than verbally say my bet...annoys me as to why people don't use them,they aren't that hard.So i guess for me,with the fact i use a bet slip,i'd never get asked if my bet is fixed odds or not.

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, jess said:

Ah ok.  Hence the howls of " that bl#*#y thing was paying $4.00 when backed it a minute ago - now it's won `n' paid $2.80!! "🤪 

Yep.  I've actually watched numerous races and recorded how far the race has run before the odds stop changing.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Haven't come across that situation re asking if it's a fixed odds bet,then again there aren't that many race meetings where i live these days lol. Mind you when i am on course i still prefer to use a bet slip rather than verbally say my bet...annoys me as to why people don't use them,they aren't that hard.So i guess for me,with the fact i use a bet slip,i'd never get asked if my bet is fixed odds or not.

The only benefit of bet slips I see is if you are doing complicated exotics or multis.  Waiting for the hearing aid to be turned up and then going through it again pisses off a lot of people behind you!!

[jess]

Gotta agree with that.  I think in some rooms it's hard for the operators to hear through their little window - & the more complicated the bet -  the more chance it gets messed up.  Filling out slips for those makes a lot of sense - and easier for the operators - and yep - keeps the queue behind moving along happily ....  

[TAB For Ever]

On the subject of On course tellers there has been an upgrade of Equipment in the past few meetings in North , the new machines being much different for the tote-staff to operate and staff catching on at different speeds. .And the insertion of betting slips needing to be a bit more precise.

At one Ellerslie meeting the operators instructed us bet-slip customers to read out all bets ,no cards wanted ,then last week they seemed more comfortable with the slips.

And make a mistake on the slip ,which has changed a little ,and there can be more confusion to correct it.

[Shad]

8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yep.  I've actually watched numerous races and recorded how far the race has run before the odds stop changing.

This has been happening for a very long time, I got caught when a fixed odds changed from 32 to 52, no chance to get the better odds, very poor considering today's technology, I'm sure it's just a tease, but very frustrating, gone are the days of the balloon going up, tote closed.

[Chief Stipe]

4 hours ago, Shad said:

This has been happening for a very long time, I got caught when a fixed odds changed from 32 to 52, no chance to get the better odds, very poor considering today's technology, I'm sure it's just a tease, but very frustrating, gone are the days of the balloon going up, tote closed.

It never ceases to amaze me that with today's technology and computer system inter-connectivity that tote prices are not refreshed in real time.

Going back to the "balloon going up, tote closed days" the system relied on tote operators and agencies manually balancing and phoning through the bets to the central tote.

Not sure but the latter may have shifted to oncourse on raceday.  

Hence close off times at agencies were earlier than oncourse.  Not sure if the TAB layed off in those days.  Perhaps @TAB For Ever knows the finer points of how they operated.

I know the local grocer in Hokitika and a committee member of the Westland Racing Club on race day monitored the revolving tape on the outside of the tote which had the win and place pool totals and would calculate if there were any anomalies in the tote prices displayed on the long tapes.

[Shad]

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

It never ceases to amaze me that with today's technology and computer system inter-connectivity that tote prices are not refreshed in real time.

Going back to the "balloon going up, tote closed days" the system relied on tote operators and agencies manually balancing and phoning through the bets to the central tote.

Not sure but the latter may have shifted to oncourse on raceday.  

Hence close off times at agencies were earlier than oncourse.  Not sure if the TAB layed off in those days.  Perhaps @TAB For Ever knows the finer points of how they operated.

I know the local grocer in Hokitika and a committee member of the Westland Racing Club on race day monitored the revolving tape on the outside of the tote which had the win and place pool totals and would calculate if there were any anomalies in the tote prices displayed on the long tapes.

Won't argue with you on that score, been caught out a few times, well I guess not, as the changing odds, were never achievable, shouldn't happen, many fine memories of the hoki races in the early days, quite a few trainers on the coast, Pope an hurren a couple locals I remember, Jim Keenan was president then, think he had a handy mare called Maundy Money, back then, a couple of horses I used to follow, ernest, a nice looking black, gaucho, the good ole days the manual tote, not quite the same as the tv monitors these days, or the infield jockeys board.

[Chief Stipe]

52 minutes ago, Shad said:

Jim Keenan was president then

Jim was the Grocer I was referring to.  His racebook had more annotations than a bookies!

I remember Johnny Hurren really well.   Charles Uphams batman during the War.