Another Open Letter...from a NZ Racing stakeholder!

[curious]

3 hours ago, hesi said:

Doesn't seem like stagnation to me

Does to most of us. There's no change in stakes for any races in industry, feature or premier meetings through the grades, mdn to open, nor likely to be.

[curious]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

They are all owners costs.  But these things don't worry you anymore as you are on your last wagering funded horse.

True. Unless we get lucky, that will end it.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, curious said:

Does to most of us.

Especially to those that are not winning.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, curious said:

There's no change in stakes for any races in industry, feature or premier meetings through the grades, mdn to open, nor likely to be.

But the quantum paid between last season vs the one before is up.  So the industry as a whole IS getting more stake money.  Hardly stagnating.  

[curious]

30 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Especially to those that are not winning.

Wouldn't think it would matter much to those would it? They have to win to pay their way don't they? Doesn't matter a bit what the stakes are if they don't win any.

Edited yesterday at 03:11 AM by curious

[Chief Stipe]

49 minutes ago, curious said:

Wouldn't think it would matter much to those would it? They have to win to pay their way don't they? Doesn't matter a bit what the stakes are if they don't win any.

Well the facts are for the last two seasons stakes have gone up.  Hardly "stagnant".

[hesi]

70.5 mil in 22/23

90.8 in 23/24

Approx another 10 mil in 24/25

I make that a 43% increase over the 2 year period, well in excess of inflation and encouraging considering the depressed state of the economy.

I'm not sure where you are getting your meaning of stagnation from Curious.

[Chief Stipe]

33 minutes ago, hesi said:

70.5 mil in 22/23

90.8 in 23/24

Approx another 10 mil in 24/25

I make that a 43% increase over the 2 year period, well in excess of inflation and encouraging considering the depressed state of the economy.

I'm not sure where you are getting your meaning of stagnation from Curious.

I think Curious is predicting it will only be $35m in 3 more years.

I just don't know why these doom and gloomers bother getting up in the morning to work their horses.

[hesi]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I think Curious is predicting it will only be $35m in 3 more years.

I just don't know why these doom and gloomers bother getting up in the morning to work their horses.

Had Entain not entered the fray, the 23/34 amount would have gone from 70.8 mil to about 50 mil, such were the state of the Q1 22/23 figs, then the doom and gloomers would have been deafening

[curious]

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

Nice colours your point?

I see you've got the no-brains trust on NZ's Premier ANTI-Racing Forum stagnating.  Well done!!

I guess for those that lease horses to race oxygen deprived ponds are an attractive green.

[Chief Stipe]

It must be hard for those sitting in the stagnant pond counting whip strikes instead of watching their horses race for good stakes.  

 

[curious]

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Nice colours your point?

Oh I thought it was interesting in terms of the YOY numbers post the online monopoly legislation. Racing turnover consistent with what I posted previously ~13% but sports well up at 30%.

[curious]

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I guess for those that lease horses to race oxygen deprived ponds are an attractive green.

Don't quite get your point here. If stakes are stagnant, that's the same whether horses are leased or owned and in the former case for both lessors and lessees isn't it?

Edited 23 hours ago by curious

[curious]

10 minutes ago, curious said:

Oh I thought it was interesting in terms of the YOY numbers post the online monopoly legislation. Racing turnover consistent with what I posted previously ~13% but sports well up at 30%.

It also shows that sports turnover is now roughly double racing turnover.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

Oh I thought it was interesting in terms of the YOY numbers post the online monopoly legislation. Racing turnover consistent with what I posted previously ~13% but sports well up at 30%.

Well your "points" are all over the place.

Now you are obfuscating.  You say thoroughbred stakes are stagnant yet over the last two seasons they have increased.  Your mates in the green envy pool agree with you which acrually reinforces your inaccuracy.

Your selective purple graphic shows a 13% increase in turnover for Thoroughbreds, 25% for Harness and 9% for Greyhounds.  Hardly figures to be derided.  Who would have thought that all your doom and gloom anti-racing acolytes would pour scorn on those figures.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

Don't quite get your point here. If stakes are stagnant, that's the same whether horses are leased or owned and in the former case for both lessors and lessees isn't it?

No it isn't the same.  Both parties to a lease have reduced their risk but ultimately only the owner truly wins.  They have their filly raced for nothing, in most cases they clip the stakes winnings and at the end of the racing career still have residual value which has either declined due to lack of performance or increased if it won.   Win win win.  They also get all the tax breaks. More wins!

The leasee hasn't risked any capital and just pays costs hoping for a win.  Generally they're not so worried about stakes as they're in it for "fun" not an investment.  Also it seems in some cases it gives them a platform to moan and whinge from.

[Chief Stipe]

Seriously does the karitane yellow pond really think any serious administrator in the industry is going to reply to an AI generated Open Letter that is factually incorrect?

 

[hesi]

Just doing something this avo, but will double check one set of figures about the actual money raced for from the NZTR calendar over the last 3 seasons.  It allows for abandonments and transfer of races to another venue or date.  I have not included money from any of the sweepstake races in each season.

At this stage it is

22/23 - 72.4 million (70.5 mil claimed)

23/24 - 95.5 million (to be re-checked versus the claimed 90.8 mil)

24/25 - 101 million

Perhaps someone could explain how this is stagnation

 

[hesi]

26 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Seriously does the karitane yellow pond really think any serious administrator in the industry is going to reply to an AI generated Open Letter that is factually incorrect?

 

It will go figuratively speaking where it deserves to go, in the bin

[Chief Stipe]

17 minutes ago, hesi said:

It will go figuratively speaking where it deserves to go, in the bin

Especially when the writer doesn't have any of the facts - just AI written hyperbole.

[curious]

22 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well the facts are for the last two seasons stakes have gone up.  Hardly "stagnant".

However you might like to frame it, the facts are that they are going round at Wingatui on Friday for 18k same as last year and the year before. That's smellily stagnant to me.

[hesi]

I note you conveniently excluded 2022 which was 14K and 2021 which was 12K.

Anyone can cherry pick data to suit their narrative

[curious]

11 minutes ago, hesi said:

I note you conveniently excluded 2022 which was 14K and 2021 which was 12K.

Anyone can cherry pick data to suit their narrative

Stagnant from when the Entain funding came to hand. NZTR went to some trouble to negotiate that be maximised in year 1 on the basis that it remain essentially stagnant through 27/28. That's the business plan. Probably the right thing to do while as the CEO said, they look for another "pot of gold". 

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, curious said:

Stagnant from when the Entain funding came to hand. NZTR went to some trouble to negotiate that be maximised in year 1 on the basis that it remain essentially stagnant through 27/28. That's the business plan. Probably the right thing to do while as the CEO said, they look for another "pot of gold". 

How is a 20% increase in Stakes Funding over the time frame you posted "stagnant"?