Jump to content
NOTICE TO BOAY'ers: Major Update Coming ×
Bit Of A Yarn

The FARCE that is Set Weights and Penalties


Thomass

Recommended Posts

Some Clubs, like New Plymouth, have suddenly come down with the Set Weights and Penalties disease...is there no cure?

Perhaps they've been influenced, paid off...even imbibed into turning a previous COMPETITIVE race into a One way procession...

Just like Saturday's race

CONSENSUS was gift wrapped a luxurious Weight in her last 2 starts...thanks to the FARCICAL SW&P rules of engagement 

The first and foremost inexplicable fact is the 18 Month rule

Win a G1 within 18 months of the current race and you receive a 3kg penalty....

18 months plus one day?

NOTHING!!!

Simply bizarre stuff

CONSENSUS was narrowly beaten 12 months ago in a G1...surely that race indicates she was still 'competitive' and deserved a 'penalty' in line with the winner of that race?

Yea Na, the winner gets 3kgs...the narrow loser....what Paddy shot at...NADA

If Clubs are going to carry on this nonsense of removing all of these Iconic Handicap races...for the sake of keeping their Group Status

Then take the obvious route...WFA

At least that's fair...SW&P simply isn't...

The connections of CONSENSUS got away with daylight robbery...their hands should be shaking as they receive their stipend

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Disagree with what shu??

Yea yea...'good luck, well done, big ups, you legends, congrats, you're deserving'

That b/s belongs over on the other site 

This is a debate about a FARCE Shu

How can you reconcile the fact Conny received 3kgs off a neddy who beat her by sfa 12 months ago is the question...

...when she got nothing for that...or being a G1 winner?

Winning a race off the Minimum...like a Maidener

$90,000 gifted away Shu

That could buy you an awful lot of Choos in Honkers Jimmy

Did the connections of the neddys, supremely well off under SW&F All Penalties, get the Committee of NP imbibed so they'd make a rash ridiculous decision?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 in a row..well done with the Tri...you finished yet?

Having 3 vastly different systems in terms of weight carried is just ridiculous 

Almost everyone agrees, bar you, that the SW&F All P's is totally inequitable 

A nose separation equals 3kg?

Yea Na thanks

18 months Nothing...17 months 30 days 3 kgs?

yea na thanks again

The Southern Hemisphere is renowned for its Iconic Handicaps

Imagine introducing the Donny or Epsom as a SW&F All P....the Aussies would fall over laughing

Were destroying the fabric of our racing with this garbage

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, mardigras said:

And as a system, it's certainly not as stuffed as the handicapping one.

Which is the real problem NOT the conditions that races are run under.

I mentioned to Reefton how the class of the field that Consensus beat was nowhere near the quality of the one that we beat with Madame Shinko in 2006.

You are correct that the handicapping system is one of the biggest causes of the deterioration in the quality of our fields.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Which is the real problem NOT the conditions that races are run under.

I mentioned to Reefton how the class of the field that Consensus beat was nowhere near the quality of the one that we beat with Madame Shinko in 2006.

You are correct that the handicapping system is one of the biggest causes of the deterioration in the quality of our fields.

Agree...and while all kudos are due to the connections of this good mare for playing the system as it is,  SW & P don't belong - IMHO.

Handicaps shouldn't be in the 'pattern' system,  handicaps are all about betting - and clever placing.  No reason why a hcp can't be worth huge money,  but a measure of the class of the breed,  it isn't.

Black type races - esp Grp races - are about determining the best of the breed,  the best of an age group, the best filly or colt of their generation.

Edited by Freda
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seen a rating 78 battler win an open class race, carried 52kg with the 2kg claimer on, wins well, then gets 5 points and carries 58.5kg in a listed race, with no claims, seems a steep jump in the weights, drops 1 point for an un placed run.l find the system hard to fathom,  how many kgs does 1 point equal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SW&P is ridiculous -it should be abolished immediately.

Black Type may be considered a measure of ability by some but often it is merely a reflection of a small field or atrocious track conditions. Somehow the world got by prior to the introduction of Pattern racing. It could only have an inkling of respectability if countries each had a set percentage of Black Type races. As things stand it is very hard to avoid black type in Ireland. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can you give us the number/percentage of black type in Ireland. And the same for NZ and Oz. Cheers.

SW&P may be poor, but no worse than NZ handicapping. And as I said, all black type should be WFA since the idea of black type is to find the best horse. 'Iconic' handicaps can run for whatever money they like, but there is zero point in black type handicap racing.

Edited by mardigras
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/02/2019 at 6:46 AM, mardigras said:

0.5 in a handicap race.

To be effective, they should consider running races with a top weight around 62 down to 52. 1 point per kilo or similar. 

And proper handicapping of performance.

Trainers go nuts if they receive anymore than 58

Have a range of 48-58 and import a whole lot of Asian kids...just like the Sth Is does

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, mardigras said:

Can you give us the number/percentage of black type in Ireland. And the same for NZ and Oz. Cheers.

SW&P may be poor, but no worse than NZ handicapping. And as I said, all black type should be WFA since the idea of black type is to find the best horse. 'Iconic' handicaps can run for whatever money they like, but there is zero point in black type handicap racing.

Going from memory it used to be about 15% , NZ & OZ 4-6%

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Fred said:

Going from memory it used to be about 15% , NZ & OZ 4-6%

I stand to be corrected but I think you are mistaken Fred. The NZ Pattern committee aim is about 5% Group and Listed races and it hovers around there. The latest figures I have for Ireland are 2016. 120 Group and Listed races from 2577 total races. 4.65%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Sandpiper said:

I like SW&P, the conditions are straightforward and the race type serves as a stepping stone up to or back down from WFA.

What I really do not like is changing the conditions of races which have a history to them.

 

Somebody told me it was inequatable??

Could you show how straight forward it is please?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, curious said:

Someone else may have more accurate or recent data?

I looked at Irish racing. Looked to be 127 from 2800 races. It is a little misleading as they also run NH. But there isn't a lot in it, and certainly no where near 15%.

And from a quality perspective, I doubt we are anywhere near their level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...