Sunday Surge

[Shab]

Are these Entain guys for real?  Put a horse out from $4 to $5 with a maximum bet of $20.  Not $200 but $20.  Was never going to start $4.  Closed $7.76 on the exchange.  Surely they'd be lucky to find a hundred mugs to take this bet.  Last night at Menangle they had a quinella offer of $5 for a quinella valued at $4.50 using their 130% market.  Hope there aren’t too many mugs getting sucked in by this kinda rubbish.

[Chief Stipe]

11 hours ago, Shab said:

Closed $7.76 on the exchange.

Do you mean the Tote or Betfair?

[curious]

Betfair

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, curious said:

Betfair

I didn't realise you were @Shab as well.

So essentially a low margin operator in a very low liquidity market.  So how much did Crown Resorts make out of that exchange?

[Shab]

57 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So essentially a low margin operator in a very low liquidity market.  So how much did Crown Resorts make out of that exchange?

Best tote was $8.20. Don’t know why you stick up for these burglars. They’re just driving people away from punting. One thing to rob the punters on a normal race but to do it on a promotion with a $20 maximum is just something else. 

[Murray Fish]

11 minutes ago, Shab said:

One thing to rob the punters on a normal race but to do it on a promotion with a $20 maximum is just something else. 

and then one day they just stop coming.. stop being interested..  

[Shab]

7 minutes ago, Murray Fish said:

and then one day they just stop coming.. stop being interested..  

exactly 

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Shab said:

Best tote was $8.20. Don’t know why you stick up for these burglars. They’re just driving people away from punting. One thing to rob the punters on a normal race but to do it on a promotion with a $20 maximum is just something else. 

But was the best Fixed Odds?  On Betfair you were only ever going to get what someone was going to match you for.

As for sticking up for ENTAIN from my observation they are no worse or better than any corporate bookie.  They are also doing far far better than the last lot.

But the far bigger issue is no one has come up with a way of funding NZ Racing from wagering.  Surely you are not like @curious who wants the best of all worlds without paying for it.

[curious]

14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But was the best Fixed Odds?  On Betfair you were only ever going to get what someone was going to match you for.

I think he's talking about the BSP which isn't a matched bet. Still ridiculously better pricing than we now have here and most were paying POCCs and GST which is no longer. The NZ punters still betting with them will never bet here with the TAB, they'll walk away in preference as MF noted. and the legislation has cost millions of lost revenue without recovering much if any. It's hard to see what the DIA is doing now will help enough to recover the cost of monitoring and their is a risk that the likes of Kalshi and Polymarket will apply for a legislative review of their interpretation from what I hear.

Edited 5 hours ago by curious

[curious]

I meant to add that I think it's far too late for NZ racing to find a way to fund itself from wagering as it did a couple of decades ago, without reducing its funding by a half or more. Possibly could have been achieved with the Entain capital funding but I think even Entain have given up on that possibility.

Edited 5 hours ago by curious

[Murray Fish]

19 minutes ago, curious said:

without reducing i

How much would this save the Industry?

One Radical of reducing cost to the Industry is to drop this 'bourgeois' notion that Artificial Insemination is not allowed?

Why have individual ownership?

How many horses/trainer/riders/workers are needed at what cost if the punting profit is the base goal, measurement? 

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Murray Fish said:

One Radical of reducing cost to the Industry is to drop this 'bourgeois' notion that Artificial Insemination is not allowed?

Why is banning AI 'bourgeois'?  To save people looking up the meaning:

refers to the middle class, typically characterized by conventional, materialistic values, and a focus on property or wealth ownership. Often used critically, it implies being suburban, unimaginative, or conformist. In Marxist theory, the bourgeoisie are the capitalists who own the means of production and exploit the working class. 

[Chief Stipe]

33 minutes ago, curious said:

I meant to add that I think it's far too late for NZ racing to find a way to fund itself from wagering as it did a couple of decades ago

That's a false statement.  How do you arrive at that?

[curious]

I just asked AI about this. Not saying it's right but it concurs with my opinion and it seems that the only significant strategy they have is Project Stamina which seems to have the aim of liquidating more capital assets to be frittered away as they see fit.

Bottom Line (supported by the evidence)

Your position is entirely justified:

• The big money so far has been capital payments for operating rights.
• The revenue‑share uplift is temporary and guaranteed only for an initial period.
• Post‑guarantee, there is no demonstrated basis to expect funding to remain at those levels.
• Critiques from within the industry mirror your concerns and are backed by independent economic analysis. [sports-betting.nz]

[curious]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's a false statement.  How do you arrive at that?

What's false about it?

[Chief Stipe]

50 minutes ago, curious said:

The NZ punters still betting with them will never bet here with the TAB, they'll walk away in preference as MF noted. and the legislation has cost millions of lost revenue without recovering much if any.

On what basis do you make that statement?  Anectdotal feedback over rums at the Racecourse Hotel?

[curious]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

On what basis do you make that statement?  Anectdotal feedback over rums at the Racecourse Hotel?

On the facts available and talking to punters that do millions of turnover, or did, on NZ racing prior to this move. If they still bet on it they are doing so through overseas offices.

Edited 4 hours ago by curious

[curious]

Btw, I don't drink rum and have only been to the Racecourse once I think since you were here 18 months ago.

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, curious said:

On the facts available and talking to punters that do millions of turnover, or did, on NZ racing prior to this move. If they still bet on it they are doing so through overseas offices.

Turnover doesn't equal revenue unless these punters are betting on the Tote.  So how do you explain that turnover hasn't moved downwards equivalent to the punters you talk to reduction in punting?  Not that I would actually believe what a punter tells me they turnover!

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, curious said:

Btw, I don't drink rum and have only been to the Racecourse once I think since you were here 18 months ago.

Ok then over your Guinness what did you decide was the best way to get sufficient return from wagering to fund NZ Racing at the level you desire? 

[curious]

25 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Ok then over your Guinness what did you decide was the best way to get sufficient return from wagering to fund NZ Racing at the level you desire? 

As I said, I don't see any way unless you accept funding to be half current levels as it should have been unless they pull a rabbit out of the hat and manage to sell some more of our assets to do that. I'll definitely be having a Guinness tomorrow though, that's for sure. Maybe trow in a Jameson for a nightcap

[Chief Stipe]

40 minutes ago, curious said:

As I said, I don't see any way unless you accept funding to be half current levels as it should have been unless they pull a rabbit out of the hat and manage to sell some more of our assets to do that. I'll definitely be having a Guinness tomorrow though, that's for sure. Maybe trow in a Jameson for a nightcap

Ok.  I'm ok with the Jameson but the last time I nailed Guinness was when they had Toss the Boss at Rumpoles Bar at the Park Royal in Victoria Square, Christchurch.  9 free pints was a bit much.

 

[curious]

Drank 10 pints in 10 different pubs the first night I was in Ireland. The Irish boys thought they'd drink this kiwi lad under the table. Bit wobbly walking home to be fair. Can't get through two these days though.

Edited 1 hour ago by curious

[Shab]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

But was the best Fixed Odds?  On Betfair you were only ever going to get what someone was going to match you for.

You obviously don’t know how BSP is calculated. You need to do some research.

[Shab]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

But the far bigger issue is no one has come up with a way of funding NZ Racing from wagering.  Surely you are not like @curious

For decades the show was funded by a % takeout around half of what it is today and it was going a lot better than what it is today. Don’t have to be a rocket scientist to work out that 130% markets are going to snuff the game out completely