Trials fiasco

[Rowley Mile]

Come in Curious, hoping you can she some light on the 'announcement' on the NZTR site, Foxton trials moved to Waverley'? Is Foxton under water?

[Rowley Mile]

shed sorry.

[curious]

Nah, plenty galloping on it this morning when I was there. Think they just wanted to give the track a bit of a rest. Already been trials this month and more next month. Might have also hoped the new plastic running rail could be installed in between though it still hasn't turned up as I understand it.

[Rowley Mile]

Thanks.

[Reefton]

What the hell are they doing wasting money on a track that NZTR clearly have no intention of racing on again?  First a set of new starting gates and then a bloody plastic running rail?  And all because(apparently) some of the committee do a good job of sucking up to Moncur and co.  

Wasting industry money on non racetracks, whether trials tracks or not, is a disgrace (and if they are paying for it themselves then it is just as big a disgrace in that their future is uncertain and spending that sort of money is accordingly of extremely dubious benefit)

And before everyone jumps down my throat about what a good surface it is I suggest that they take that up with NZTR and the NZRB because I am not the one who refuses to let them race there.

In the meantime allowing this waste of money seems idiot behaviour to me.

[Ashoka]

Reefton,

It is my opinion that the people involved with the Foxton Racing Club are preparing themselves for the days when our industry is not run by incompetent, self-serving individuals who make decisions based on the agendas of their fellow "in crowd" fraudsters but, instead, is run by competent individuals who are held accountable for their actions. When this happens, the good people of Foxton know that their track will be used as the beneficial asset that it is and not wasted as it currently is. If those days never come, who cares what they spend their money on as all money spent on the racing industry will have been wasted because there won't be one.

Cheers.

Ashoka

[mardigras]

31 minutes ago, Reefton said:

What the hell are they doing wasting money on a track that NZTR clearly have no intention of racing on again?  First a set of new starting gates and then a bloody plastic running rail?  And all because(apparently) some of the committee do a good job of sucking up to Moncur and co.  

Wasting industry money on non racetracks, whether trials tracks or not, is a disgrace (and if they are paying for it themselves then it is just as big a disgrace in that their future is uncertain and spending that sort of money is accordingly of extremely dubious benefit)

And before everyone jumps down my throat about what a good surface it is I suggest that they take that up with NZTR and the NZRB because I am not the one who refuses to let them race there.

In the meantime allowing this waste of money seems idiot behaviour to me.

its seems highly appropriate behaviour to me. If it is deemed to need some changes before being granted a race date, I think it would be well advised to go about achieving that. Clearly the status quo isn't working for NZ racing.

Given the entire future of racing in NZ is uncertain, I hope you are not involved in spending any industry money anywhere since on what you wrote, it would clearly be of extremely dubious benefit.

However, I disagree that it is of dubious benefit since money has to be spent somewhere to try and remove or improve that uncertainty. I'd rather it was on Foxton than most other places with current racetracks and/or current race dates.

Edited May 20, 2018 by mardigras

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Ashoka said:

Reefton,

It is my opinion that the people involved with the Foxton Racing Club are preparing themselves for the days when our industry is not run by incompetent, self-serving individuals who make decisions based on the agendas of their fellow "in crowd" fraudsters but, instead, is run by competent individuals who are held accountable for their actions. When this happens, the good people of Foxton know that their track will be used as the beneficial asset that it is and not wasted as it currently is. If those days never come, who cares what they spend their money on as all money spent on the racing industry will have been wasted because there won't be one.

Cheers.

Ashoka

I've been preparing myself for years for when New Zealand itself,  let alone the NZ Racing Industry, is not run by incompetent self serving individuals. So far it doesn't seem like it is happening or that there is much show of it happening.  Messara might (and that is a bloody big might) make a difference but I will be astounded if reopening racetracks where racing is not currently taking place will be part of his recommendations.

I am sure Leggy on the other channel said that the Racing Safety Development Fund paid half of those gates - well we had to pay for our own due in part to Moncur telling straight out lies in assessing our application from the NZTR perspective - then I get told Foxton think he is the bees knees and he clearly is pissing in their pocket.  That fund and/or NZTR have clearly brought several sets of gates for the area and Clubs should have had a condition that they make them available to others as part of that approval.  They cart them around here and in the south so I don't see why they can't do it up there.

Or did useless Campbell and Bernard and Greg and whoever else not think of making that a proviso?  Whatever happened wasting money on new gates and a plastic running rail for a trials venue is a disgrace.

And while I am sympathetic to the Foxton individuals I have got some pretty grave doubts about relying on NZTR past, present or future to return racing there. Having said that I am obviously not privy to the various to and fro in that regard.

[mardigras]

29 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Messara might (and that is a bloody big might) make a difference but I will be astounded if reopening racetracks where racing is not currently taking place will be part of his recommendations.

 

I hope his recommendations do not refer to any individual racetrack but rather what is needed from a facilities point of view. And if that happens, I suspect Foxton could well be one of the very 'facilities' that would enable any possible recommendations to come to fruition.

 

 

[curious]

The main objective of Foxton is to create the best training and trial facility that it can while concurrently bringing the venue up to standards required for racing. Once that is done, they will be in a position to apply for a community race day and the track would be available as an alternative venue for other race days. Trial days earn money to keep the club afloat. Sponsorship aside, a community industry race day does not.

The gates will pay back the clubs investment in a year of trial meetings at the current allocation compared with the cost of relocating gates from elsewhere, which also causes additional wear and tear on gates. Trials and racing require the same health and safety standards to be met. The existing rail was falling apart and wrapped up with duct tape in places. To provide the trial facility designated by NZTR for the facility new rail was essential. The old rail will likely be recycled to provide safer railing on the outside of the course proper.

Consulting and negotiating with NZTR and providing a solid rationale to NZTR and the Racing Safety Development Fund to achieve that, to me is not "sucking up" or pissing in anyone's pocket. I think it is simply good business practice in the best interests of the club, the community and the wider racing industry.

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, mardigras said:

I hope his recommendations do not refer to any individual racetrack but rather what is needed from a facilities point of view. And if that happens, I suspect Foxton could well be one of the very 'facilities' that would enable any possible recommendations to come to fruition.

 

 

I wouldn't recommend holding your breath.  If Messara says there are two many tracks AND that gets acted on I would expect mine to one of the first dumped (and I have no argument with that provided they are consistent) but I can see some agitation in the lower NI if tracks get shut while a track which is to all intents and purposes closed as a racing venue is reinstated to full service. AND the basis of this thread is that that track seems unable to handle it's trials workload let alone actual racedays.

[mardigras]

3 minutes ago, Reefton said:

I wouldn't recommend holding your breath.  If Messara says there are two many tracks AND that gets acted on I would expect mine to one of the first dumped (and I have no argument with that provided they are consistent) but I can see some agitation in the lower NI if tracks get shut while a track which is to all intents and purposes closed as a racing venue is reinstated to full service. AND the basis of this thread is that that track seems unable to handle it's trials workload let alone actual racedays.

If they decide to follow whatever Messara recommends, I don't think any agitation from certain corners will make a scrap of difference. I'm not defending the Foxton track. I'm defending their right to have money spent on it from any sources available to them. Especially in light of what has happened in NZ racing during its period of isolation and particularly in relation to the tracks nearby which are substandard.

[Newmarket]

If the main tracks in nz were 100%, maybe closing down some of the country tracks may make sense. 

But some country tracks have far better racing conditions/ surfaces than main centres. 

It may make sense to an accountant to close some country tracks, but I think it will be a big mistake if it happens. I love the country tracks, main thing I look forward to over Xmas. 

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Reefton said:

I wouldn't recommend holding your breath.  If Messara says there are two many tracks AND that gets acted on I would expect mine to one of the first dumped (and I have no argument with that provided they are consistent) but I can see some agitation in the lower NI if tracks get shut while a track which is to all intents and purposes closed as a racing venue is reinstated to full service. AND the basis of this thread is that that track seems unable to handle it's trials workload let alone actual racedays.

But how they are going to close your track down? All the can do is reduce or take away race dates and that's worked wonderfully well for them in the past.  Correct me if I'm wrong but is your track a self sustainable venue ?

Part of them blame for the mess we are in is related to the calendar and the distribution of race dates and it looks like that will get worse in the future.

Greed and self interest has hindered the progress of racing in the this country in particular over the past 25 years , they have an idea that they can create an Asian style with regards to tracks they couldn't be more wrong. 

[Huey]

40 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

If the main tracks in nz were 100%, maybe closing down some of the country tracks may make sense. 

But some country tracks have far better racing conditions/ surfaces than main centres. 

It may make sense to an accountant to close some country tracks, but I think it will be a big mistake if it happens. I love the country tracks, main thing I look forward to over Xmas. 

What would you close down the already self sustainable venues that get little if any financial input from the governing bodies?

Or is the idea to close down the smaller venues and sell them up so the funds can be put into the main centre venues which has been going on in an indirect fashion for the past 30 years , so I'm not sure why anyone would trust that line of thinking to work in the future?

Besides that a lot of the community venues are owned by those clubs that operate from them and any sale proceeds from those venues aren't 100% certain to go back to racing I'd have thought, despite what those on trackside and beyond would have you believe.

[Huey]

3 hours ago, curious said:

The main objective of Foxton is to create the best training and trial facility that it can while concurrently bringing the venue up to standards required for racing. Once that is done, they will be in a position to apply for a community race day and the track would be available as an alternative venue for other race days. Trial days earn money to keep the club afloat. Sponsorship aside, a community industry race day does not.

The gates will pay back the clubs investment in a year of trial meetings at the current allocation compared with the cost of relocating gates from elsewhere, which also causes additional wear and tear on gates. Trials and racing require the same health and safety standards to be met. The existing rail was falling apart and wrapped up with duct tape in places. To provide the trial facility designated by NZTR for the facility new rail was essential. The old rail will likely be recycled to provide safer railing on the outside of the course proper.

Consulting and negotiating with NZTR and providing a solid rationale to NZTR and the Racing Safety Development Fund to achieve that, to me is not "sucking up" or pissing in anyone's pocket. I think it is simply good business practice in the best interests of the club, the community and the wider racing industry.

Curious I'd be interested in your thoughts regarding the surface at Foxton , not being smart but I'm told its not what it used to be?

[curious]

7 minutes ago, Huey said:

Curious I'd be interested in your thoughts regarding the surface at Foxton , not being smart but I'm told its not what it used to be?

Hard for me to comment on that Huey. Only been around here the last 15 years or so and haven't ridden on it for a few years now. Probably depends on in what time-frame and in what way you are suggesting it has deteriorated?

[Huey]

15 minutes ago, curious said:

Hard for me to comment on that Huey. Only been around here the last 15 years or so and haven't ridden on it for a few years now. Probably depends on in what time-frame and in what way you are suggesting it has deteriorated?

It's widely regarded as the best winter surface in the CD as you'd be aware, but I've had it mentioned to me that may no longer be the case? I've no reason to doubt those claims regarding it being the best surface however just thought you may have an opinion on that.

[curious]

I'd say it may be one of the best summer surfaces too. But I don't know what surfaces you are suggesting may be better in winter in the CD? It does have its flaws. Completely hopeless when the water table gets extremely high. Nowhere to drain to.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Newmarket said:

If the main tracks in nz were 100%, maybe closing down some of the country tracks may make sense. 

But some country tracks have far better racing conditions/ surfaces than main centres. 

It may make sense to an accountant to close some country tracks, but I think it will be a big mistake if it happens. I love the country tracks, main thing I look forward to over Xmas. 

So do I love the Country tracks but I am just thinking what Messara might say.  I am not advocating the closures myself(God knows - as I said - we would probably be number one in line) but just thinking realistically what he might recommend.

And I appreciate Foxton is apparently a good safe track with a good surface but stand by the comment - the RSDF paying a portion for gates and or plastic running rails for a trials venue is a waste of industry money.  Especially when they flat refused (on Moncur's deliberately misleading advice)  to help with ours.

1 hour ago, Huey said:

But how they are going to close your track down? All the can do is reduce or take away race dates and that's worked wonderfully well for them in the past.  Correct me if I'm wrong but is your track a self sustainable venue ?

Part of them blame for the mess we are in is related to the calendar and the distribution of race dates and it looks like that will get worse in the future.

Greed and self interest has hindered the progress of racing in the this country in particular over the past 25 years , they have an idea that they can create an Asian style with regards to tracks they couldn't be more wrong. 

I think simply taking away your date is how they will do it.  Again I am not advocating it I am just being realistic.  All the social media talk in the world will not make a difference - Winston will listen to his cronies in the game and to Messara and Winston's cronies are not country racing types.  NZ First has already shown with the Taranaki gas thing and the way they have stood by while Eugenie Sage sets up to destroy what is left of the West Coast mining industry that his allegiance to rural NZ only goes so far(about as far as Shane Jones hoped for electorate extends).

And given how these clubs have meekly altered their constitutions to give NZTR control of the assets if they fold a clever bureaucrat(if there is such a thing),  when tasked with finding the dosh for your all weathers, will soon set his or her eyes on those country venues and their assets. 

My track is self sustaining yes(though I must admit in the interests of fairness that the Reefton Trotting Club  guys have accessed that RSDF(without our knowledge I might add even though the course is half ours) for projects they have undertaken in the last year or two - nothing to do with the track mind you) 

   

1 hour ago, Huey said:

What would you close down the already self sustainable venues that get little if any financial input from the governing bodies?

Or is the idea to close down the smaller venues and sell them up so the funds can be put into the main centre venues which has been going on in an indirect fashion for the past 30 years , so I'm not sure why anyone would trust that line of thinking to work in the future?

Besides that a lot of the community venues are owned by those clubs that operate from them and any sale proceeds from those venues aren't 100% certain to go back to racing I'd have thought, despite what those on trackside and beyond would have you believe.

They hang on the notion that under the Racing Act the governing bodies control the assets of the Club if it folds don't they?  And NZTR insisting that the Club constitutions be changed to reflect that  will reinforce the thinking.  Insofar as I am aware we (the Reefton Jockey Club) are the only Club to have told Moncur to get stuffed.  That was covered well and truly a couple of years back on Race Cafe.

I agree 100% giving money to the big clubs is akin to pissing it up against the wall(history has proven that time and time again) but in this game my opinion doesn't count. 

Incidentally isn't it nostalgic to have a Molloy stirring everyone up?  Just like the good old days.

[curious]

5 hours ago, Reefton said:

So do I love the Country tracks but I am just thinking what Messara might say.  I am not advocating the closures myself(God knows - as I said - we would probably be number one in line) but just thinking realistically what he might recommend.

 

He might but that would be out of line with what he did for country racing in NSW wouldn't it?

Tuesday, November 24, 2015

Country and provincial racing in New South Wales, Australia will enjoy a prize money boost of A$21 million from July 2016 as part of the state’s wagering tax parity announced last week. The increases, which account for more than 60% of the proceeds from the second and third years of parity, will see prize money for country races climb to approximately A$69 million per year, an increase of 120% since 2011. Racing NSW will also introduce Showcase Country Race Meetings and from next July, will commit A$1 million per year to a new traineeship and apprenticeship scheme for youth in regional New South Wales. Racing NSW has also committed about A$50 million–from accumulated race field fees–to capital works at country and provincial tracks.

Racing NSW Chairman John Messara added, “While our first year’s receipts from parity are earmarked to fund The Championships and Highway races, we are pleased to announce this significant rise in Country TAB and Provincial prize money from July 2016. Country prize money of A$20,000 per TAB race along with the new Showcase meetings make for the biggest-ever injection of prize money into Country racing.”

[curious]

5 hours ago, Reefton said:

And I appreciate Foxton is apparently a good safe track with a good surface but stand by the comment - the RSDF paying a portion for gates and or plastic running rails for a trials venue is a waste of industry money.

I don't agree. There are as many horses going round Foxton at racing speeds in trials as a club holding 6-8 race meetings a year. The club meets the eligibility requirement and the projects meet the purpose of that fund. Why would you say that is a waste? The fund is not limited to clubs which hold race days.  It could be also used to access funds to improve the safety of equestrian facilities on a racecourse, for example.

We prefer building projects that will improve:
• safety at Racecourses
• the quality of facilities at Racecourses

Only the following organisations can receive grants from this fund:
 - a thoroughbred, harness or greyhound racing club registered with:
• New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing

Racing Safety Development Fund grants support the improved safety of riders, spectators, officials and others involved in racing at racecourses; and the improved health and safety of the animals at racecourses.

[curious]

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

 AND the basis of this thread is that that track seems unable to handle it's trials workload let alone actual racedays.

I'd put a different spin on that. Too many tracks around the country have been stuffed, in part by trying to conduct too many meetings on them. The FRC also has an obligation to trainers domiciled there to provide a safe and suitable surface for those trainers to gallop horses there. It currently also attracts horses from other venues for that purpose. To remain self-sustaining, that revenue also needs to be preserved. So, I'd call it sensible management.

This will probably just rub salt in your wound, but did you know that the FRC also got  a $50k grant from the RSDF toward renovation of the stand to make it race ready?

You bloody Molloys certainly know how to stir. I agree with you there. IMO, you can rest assured that Foxton will see a return to racing in due course. Probably for more than one code.

[mardigras]

NZ Racing needs to spend money on infrastructure. Given Reefton's thinking, they couldn't put money into building a new track since it doesn't have any race dates - even though putting money into Foxton is a cheaper and more sensible idea. The stakes might be stuffed but not half as stuffed as the tracks.

[curious]

7 hours ago, Reefton said:

 They hang on the notion that under the Racing Act the governing bodies control the assets of the Club if it folds don't they?  And NZTR insisting that the Club constitutions be changed to reflect that  will reinforce the thinking.  Insofar as I am aware we (the Reefton Jockey Club) are the only Club to have told Moncur to get stuffed.  That was covered well and truly a couple of years back on Race Cafe.

I might add that the FRC has not changed its constitution. In fact I pointed out to NZTR that the request to do so was pointless and the Bell Gully opinion supporting that was in direct contradiction to an earlier one from the same outfit addressed to Mr. Moncur which just happened to have fallen into my mail box. What would be the point in doing so anyway? In the event of the club winding up, a 2/3 majority of members can amend the constitution however they wish with respect to distribution of assets. Remember that the Racing Act can not override the provisions of any other Act.

If your club decided to tell Moncur to get stuffed, then you probably deserve what you got. Did you reapply for a grant after the first decline? Foxton had to.