Chief Stipe Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 24 minutes ago, curious said: So be it. We all will make our decisions about those sort of things, our personal lives and business interests, but how NZ continues to respond to managing the corona threat is a step away from that. Get with the programme. How many public servants have taken a pay cut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: How many public servants have taken a pay cut? Does it matter in the overall scheme of things? I think not and I don't really care. I'm over the griping and complaining about what some international media are calling a masterclass in management of this virus and it seems 85% of New Zealanders agree. Let's just do this. I might add, I've never voted Labour and probably never will. Edited April 19, 2020 by curious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 37 minutes ago, curious said: Get with the programme. What programme is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What programme is that? If you have to ask that, I give up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 hour ago, curious said: If you have to ask that, I give up. If "The Programme" is adhering to the Level 4 Lockdown rules and requirements then I've "got with the programme." I don't buy into this "Masterclass" in politics bullshyte. Fairly easy to do things in this country compared to the rest of the world. Given the complexities involved in Australia you would have to say they have done extremely well. If "getting with the Programme" means: Accepting that Parliament should be suspended and far-reaching decisions should be made by two individuals without the scrutiny of Parliament then NO I'm not on board; That certain sectors of society should have to carry the burden of "the programme" more than others. Then NO I'm not onboard. We talk about the number of employees at RITA earning over $100k a year but did you know that there are 3,000 MPI employees with a total salary/wage cost in 2019 of $300m. I'll do the math for you - that's an average salary for 3,000 people of $100,000. These are the people telling us how fast we can ride horses. How many government employees have been laid off or taken a pay cut? Remember it is the other 55% of the workforce that fund them; If a bank is an essential service why is it closed and not open like the supermarket? Does it mean that I will become a snitch and ring the RIU when I see the trainer down the road working some of his horses faster than a canter? NO. Didn't you advocate doing that?; Will I voluntarily sign up to letting the Government track my movements and contacts? NUP; Do I accept the Government mortgaging the country and my young daughters future to the tune of $100 billion (and rising) and spending it the way they are? NUP; Does it mean accepting the nonsense directive that "attending school isn't voluntary if your child has someone to look after them at home"? Definitely not. I could go on. We are not hearing the truth instead we are hearing outright propaganda coated with syrup such as unity, we can do this, we are saving lives.....and on and on and on. Meanwhile our hospitals are half empty and that isn't just because "elective" surgery has been cancelled. There are people out there who are paying with their future health to save people who are already sick. Is that a fair price to pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: If "The Programme" is adhering to the Level 4 Lockdown rules and requirements then I've "got with the programme." I don't buy into this "Masterclass" in politics bullshyte. Fairly easy to do things in this country compared to the rest of the world. Given the complexities involved in Australia you would have to say they have done extremely well. If "getting with the Programme" means: Accepting that Parliament should be suspended and far-reaching decisions should be made by two individuals without the scrutiny of Parliament then NO I'm not on board; That certain sectors of society should have to carry the burden of "the programme" more than others. Then NO I'm not onboard. We talk about the number of employees at RITA earning over $100k a year but did you know that there are 3,000 MPI employees with a total salary/wage cost in 2019 of $300m. I'll do the math for you - that's an average salary for 3,000 people of $100,000. These are the people telling us how fast we can ride horses. How many government employees have been laid off or taken a pay cut? Remember it is the other 55% of the workforce that fund them; If a bank is an essential service why is it closed and not open like the supermarket? Does it mean that I will become a snitch and ring the RIU when I see the trainer down the road working some of his horses faster than a canter? NO. Didn't you advocate doing that?; Will I voluntarily sign up to letting the Government track my movements and contacts? NUP; Do I accept the Government mortgaging the country and my young daughters future to the tune of $100 billion (and rising) and spending it the way they are? NUP; Does it mean accepting the nonsense directive that "attending school isn't voluntary if your child has someone to look after them at home"? Definitely not. I could go on. We are not hearing the truth instead we are hearing outright propaganda coated with syrup such as unity, we can do this, we are saving lives.....and on and on and on. Meanwhile our hospitals are half empty and that isn't just because "elective" surgery has been cancelled. There are people out there who are paying with their future health to save people who are already sick. Is that a fair price to pay? Of course, all of that could simply be your own form of propaganda. There are plenty saying the same thing that you say, doesn't mean it is right. People can make their own choices as you have above. As for propaganda - such as the propaganda that the economy is down the toilet due to being on Level 4. I'd call that propaganda that many have fallen for. Usually there is two sides to it - and in this case, there definitely is. The problem we all face is that no one on here (or anywhere), can say what would have happened 'otherwise'. We can only know what has happened, the rest is speculative. No one knows whether hospitals would have been full or still empty, or whether job losses will be more or not 'otherwise' People should make up their own minds. It's a democracy and you can choose how you use your vote to impart your view, when that time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 23 minutes ago, mardigras said: There are plenty saying the same thing that you say, doesn't mean it is right. What have I said that isn't fact? 23 minutes ago, mardigras said: The problem we all face is that no one on here (or anywhere), can say what would have happened 'otherwise'. We can only know what has happened, the rest is speculative. No one knows whether hospitals would have been full or still empty, or whether job losses will be more or not 'otherwise' What we do know is that our hospitals are half full or even less. To go back to your bread bakery analogy that you have often used in the past. You have known demand and you know your average throughput. You have an unknown variable in terms of the quantum of extra demand caused by an event. However you are receiving data on that extra demand. Do you operate your bakery at 50% capacity and keep paying all the fixed costs and staff costs? Leaving a substantial part of the demand unsatisfied? 23 minutes ago, mardigras said: People should make up their own minds. It's a democracy and you can choose how you use your vote to impart your view, when that time comes. Yes we do normally live in a parliamentary democracy but at the moment that has been suspended. FFS our Deputy Prime Minister is in his own bubble in North Island. If the underpaid teenager at the supermarket checkout is required to work why isn't Parliament? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What have I said that isn't fact? I didn't say your statements about what is in place, are not fact. Your view on countering them as being required is a form of propaganda. Since you are sharing a viewpoint on those items - even to the point of saying you wouldn't follow them. You're implying that things such as #6, wouldn't have been the case if it weren't for the actions of the government. You are trying to counter that these things need not have occurred or were not required. You have no ability to know whether any debt incurred by the government would have been greater or lesser if they hadn't taken the action they did. And your final two paragraphs are opinion. One could argue an attempt to discredit what has been done, but without knowing what would have happened without the actions taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What we do know is that our hospitals are half full or even less. To go back to your bread bakery analogy that you have often used in the past. You have known demand and you know your average throughput. You have an unknown variable in terms of the quantum of extra demand caused by an event. However you are receiving data on that extra demand. But we only know they are half full or even less now. You have no ability to know what they would be like - if the action taken wasn't taken. They may have been overloaded if the action wasn't taken. The analogy is a poor one. Since the data is retrospective and doesn't cater for the how the event is changing. My bakery is relying on normal life continuing so that what is happening now is able to be used as a guide to what will happen tomorrow and next week. The data we have now is not as reliable as that given the changes the event is able to bring about - which is crystal ball gazing. You're suggesting that because we had 9 cases yesterday, that can continue if the restrictions are lifted, and everything is sweet. You're suggesting you know more about the impact of the virus than the scientists do. And they'll all talking crap and filling us with propaganda. Your propaganda is no different to the political/scientific propaganda - by suggesting the virus wouldn't have the impact expected and you also seem to be saying that the action taken is having a more severe impact on the economy. They don't know what the truth is, and neither do you. But I'd rather they took the advice of supposed experts than the advice of a racing enthusiast. Edited April 20, 2020 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Yes we do normally live in a parliamentary democracy but at the moment that has been suspended. FFS our Deputy Prime Minister is in his own bubble in North Island. If the underpaid teenager at the supermarket checkout is required to work why isn't Parliament? It depends on whether you think the actions of parliament is essential at this point. Or whether you think it more essential that people have access to food supplies. It's a pretty lame point imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: If "The Programme" is adhering to the Level 4 Lockdown rules and requirements then I've "got with the programme." I don't buy into this "Masterclass" in politics bullshyte. Fairly easy to do things in this country compared to the rest of the world. Given the complexities involved in Australia you would have to say they have done extremely well. If "getting with the Programme" means: Accepting that Parliament should be suspended and far-reaching decisions should be made by two individuals without the scrutiny of Parliament then NO I'm not on board; That certain sectors of society should have to carry the burden of "the programme" more than others. Then NO I'm not onboard. We talk about the number of employees at RITA earning over $100k a year but did you know that there are 3,000 MPI employees with a total salary/wage cost in 2019 of $300m. I'll do the math for you - that's an average salary for 3,000 people of $100,000. These are the people telling us how fast we can ride horses. How many government employees have been laid off or taken a pay cut? Remember it is the other 55% of the workforce that fund them; If a bank is an essential service why is it closed and not open like the supermarket? Does it mean that I will become a snitch and ring the RIU when I see the trainer down the road working some of his horses faster than a canter? NO. Didn't you advocate doing that?; Will I voluntarily sign up to letting the Government track my movements and contacts? NUP; Do I accept the Government mortgaging the country and my young daughters future to the tune of $100 billion (and rising) and spending it the way they are? NUP; Does it mean accepting the nonsense directive that "attending school isn't voluntary if your child has someone to look after them at home"? Definitely not. I could go on. We are not hearing the truth instead we are hearing outright propaganda coated with syrup such as unity, we can do this, we are saving lives.....and on and on and on. Meanwhile our hospitals are half empty and that isn't just because "elective" surgery has been cancelled. There are people out there who are paying with their future health to save people who are already sick. Is that a fair price to pay? We've all heard those stories. If they'd put the blinkers on in the Cup last start like they did today, it would have killed them. If he'd stayed on the rail and waited till they all came off the fence instead of going round them 5 wide, it would've won by lengths. The above aren't facts though some treat them as such. They are unproven hypotheses that can never be tested. Edited April 20, 2020 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 53 minutes ago, curious said: We've all heard those stories. If they'd put the blinkers on in the Cup last start like they did today, it would have killed them. If he'd stayed on the rail and waited till they all came off the fence instead of going round them 5 wide, it would've won by lengths. The above aren't facts though some treat them as such. They are unproven hypotheses that can never be tested. Maybe the 50% spare capacity reported by the Ministry of Health isn't enough for the experts. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121126159/coronavirus-41-canterbury-dhb-staff-isolating-after-contact-with-confirmed-cases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Sounds like it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Tiger Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) NZs comparison with Ireland makes for some interesting reading NZ IRELAND Population 4.8m 4.9m First Case 28 Feb 27 Feb Deaths 12 610 Cases 1440 15,251 Edited April 20, 2020 by Tiger Tiger wasn't finished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 55 minutes ago, Tiger Tiger said: NZs comparison with Ireland makes for some interesting reading NZ IRELAND Population 4.8m 4.9m First Case 28 Feb 27 Feb Deaths 12 610 Cases 1440 15,251 Cripes, that's horrendous. How come so bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 59 minutes ago, curious said: Cripes, that's horrendous. How come so bad? The median age of those who have died is 83. Mostly in Dublin. 1.9 million people. The population density is 5 times that of Auckland. 14% of population are aged over 65. Average temperature for April is 13 high - low 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 Oh and another factor that may have made a difference is Ireland had a bad flu season with Covid-19 coming hard right after. Note the deaths per million are well short of Spain and Italy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 Another thing to consider is Ireland has a high number of cases per population relative to other countries but a lower number of deaths relative to those cases. Again Dublin has the majority of cases in Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Tiger Tiger said: NZs comparison with Ireland makes for some interesting reading NZ IRELAND Population 4.8m 4.9m First Case 28 Feb 27 Feb Deaths 12 610 Cases 1440 15,251 How does it compare with Taiwan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 9 hours ago, All The Aces said: How does it compare with Taiwan? Taiwan are doing pretty well also. No doubt helped by the fact they reportedly had advance knowledge of the virus last year. China had stopped issuing Visa's to Chinese people to allow them to travel to Taiwan and the early treatment/border control of people into Taiwan. Couple that with good knowledge experience from previous SARs type viruses and a high quality of health systems available. Good on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Vietnam has a population of 96,000,000. Has borders with China, Laos, Cambodia. 75% of their tourists come from China, about 13,000,000 per year. They have had only 268 cases total, with no new cases for four days. No deaths that i'm aware of. They have identified two different strains of the virus. They can tell from the test tube the origin, either European , or Chinese version. They are not a wealthy country like those in the west, but have done an exceptional job of stomping on this virus. It is tropical there, and rarely drops below 15 even in winter. It is now coming into summer. https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vietnam-records-zero-covid-19-cases-in-84-hours-4087023.html Vietnam records zero Covid-19 cases in 84 hours - VnExpress International No new Covid-19 cases have been detected in Vietnam in the last 84 hours, keeping the nation’s tally at 268. Of these, 65 cases are active and the rest have been discharged. Among the active cases, 20 have tested negative at least once, the Health Ministry said. Hanoi is treating the largest ... e.vnexpress.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 Posts related to Covid-19 not Bernie's Blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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