Could AWT's lead to more horse fatalities?

[Chief Stipe]

We've been told that one of the top trainers at Newmarket is an avid fan of AWT's but could their use in NZ lead to more horse fatalities?  Read below Champion trainer Lee Freedman's view on why the European Melbourne Cup contenders are breaking down.

 

[Chief Stipe]

Freedman: My take on Cup concerns

Racing.com 
9 November, 2020 
By Lee Freedman

Much has been made of the way the Melbourne Cup has evolved since Vintage Crop first took it back Ireland in 1993, and JB Cummings famously and correctly said the Cup would never been the same again.

But within this discussion there is now 28 years of evidence to support or debunk the views of where the Cup is at now.

The fact is since the “internationalization” of the Melbourne Cup, Doriemus, Saintly, Brew, Ethereal, Prince of Penzance, Efficient, Vow and Declare, Rogan Josh, Jezabeel, Viewed, Shocking and Might and Power have been able to win it for Australasia (I’ve left Makybe Diva’s three wins in neither the overseas nor local category as she was, effectively, in both).

This would suggest a fairly even split of results between the two hemispheres.

However, in the last 10 years, eight have been won by overseas horses.

The two main reasons for this appears to be the escalation of Cup prizemoney has attracted more of the overseas people and they have become a lot better at getting horses here that can win the race.

Travel times have improved, quarantine improved and generally the knowledge of how to get the job done as well.

This, however, cannot usher the “elephant” out of the room - the fatalities of imported horses. To be accurate there are two “elephants”.

One is the fatalities, which are felt worldwide, the other is the thought that imports are winning too often and disenfranchising local owners.

The most successful at the import raid are Team Williams.

They are longtime supporters of the local thoroughbred product, that delivered Just A Dash, What A Nuisance and Efficient as Cup winners in the past, have now taken the import route in recent years. (I’m announcing they are friends and have been clients of mine)

Team Williams, plus the O’Brien’s of Ireland, are making an art form of winning the Melbourne Cup.

Let me assure you this is an expensive venture and the wastage in terms of horses that don’t make it puts the exercise well beyond the means of the vast majority of Australians.

However it’s their money to spend and the rules allow.

The genie is well and truly out of the bottle and not returning any time soon.

But the other “elephant” is still wandering about the room.

The first thing my wonderful Japanese assistant said to me here in Singapore the morning after the cup was: “what a shame about the death of the lovely horse”.

The problem is 250 years plus of breeding in the UK versus 200 million years of continent Australia climate.

European horses are different and are reared and raced in far more accommodating conditions in Europe than Australia.

In other words, the tracks match their physiques.

Blaming the Werribee quarantine facilities for all the woes of the imports is far too simplistic.

I’ve recently curbed my enthusiasm for Twitter, but I dropped my guard the other day when I tweeted my approval for Macedon Lodge being used for quarantine.

Not that I don’t think it would be excellent, believe me it would be, but for a racing industry that has performed so brilliantly during the COVID period and faces more COVID inspired challenges to be expected to spend many millions on satisfying the needs of a very few privileged for  three minutes and 20 seconds on a November afternoon is not logical.

Werribee is a good quarantine set up and believe me when I tell you from 50 years of hands on experience with racehorses, that sound horses don’t break down unless the surface they work on is flawed.

Yes, the turns are tight but the horses are there for three to four weeks which wouldn’t impact on horses soundness to cause catastrophic injury.

A different set up may be better but could it be quantified as to the eradication of fatalities?

Blaming Flemington racetrack is similarly flawed. We have a harsh, arid climate in Australia and trying to manipulate track conditions every raceday to suit everybody is impossible.

In the main, Racecourse Managers do a great job. We must stop blaming ourselves and put the responsibility of providing the race with sound overseas representatives back on those connections.

The only way to ensure the integrity of the vetting of these horses is preserved, is by MRI science, before they even get on the plane.

An independent process performed without fear or favour, that protects the Melbourne Cup and does away with opinion vetting.

Yes, there will still be opinions on MRI findings but aren’t we continually told to “follow the science”?

In discussions with some of my brothers, all respected and experienced horsemen in their own right, an alternative may be a mandatory six month training and racing period in Australia for these imports before they run in the Cup to acclimate to Australian conditions, and that’s a very sound proposal.

But the argument against that would be that it would interfere with the Northern Hemisphere racing season which is true but really not the problem of the Australian Industry.

To paraphrase a quote from a recently departed US President it should be “Australia First”.

The “smart money” knows the fly in late hit run mission works best, but it also exposes the flaws in the current system and the fatalities are slipping through the net and for it to survive big changes need to be made.

Believe me also when I say that no matter how wealthy and powerful the connections of these horses are, it hurts them the same as if they were a hobby trainer when a horse becomes a fatal statistic.

We all love our horses, it’s just that powerful groups can deal with the collateral damage more easily, but I’m not sure the view of the Melbourne Cup fatalities in the eyes of the racing world, will afford the Australian Racing industry that luxury.

[Joe Bloggs]

I'm proud to say Lee was my neighbour for 6 years, I sought his council only once, he was then and is now gifted with perception and wiseness beyond his years, me being older can say that.

I think he is such a wasted talent up there in SING, that talent in that environment, I know it changed from the SING I worked and lived in in the 70's/80's........aircon boxes etc, but lee seems to have settled into a very different lifestyle and is looking into the landscape here with open vision.

Come home Lee, before it's too late.

[curious]

Quite agree with Lee. In fact I posted this on another channel recently:

I wonder where they got that figure? The 6 months I mean. Seems a bit of an odd request. Wouldn't requiring bone imaging, say CT scans, before they are cleared to race be a better and more pragmatic option?

[Ultra]

23 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

We've been told that one of the top trainers at Newmarket is an avid fan of AWT's but could their use in NZ lead to more horse fatalities?  Read below Champion trainer Lee Freedman's view on why the European Melbourne Cup contenders are breaking down.

 

In my experience - No. AWT trained horses actually raced significantly longer, and more regularly. But maybe sample size constraints and a different environment.

[Chief Stipe]

45 minutes ago, Ultra said:

In my experience - No. AWT trained horses actually raced significantly longer, and more regularly. But maybe sample size constraints and a different environment.

I don't disagree however the point Freedman has made (and others) is that the difference between UK horse training and Australia is that the surfaces are generally softer.  So when they travel south their legs are not accustomed to the harder surfaces so any latent issues with their legs are quickly found out.

So if you agree with that logic and we train more on softer/forgiving surfaces will we increase the potential of breakdown especially when our main money tracks (stakes wise) are considerably more firmer than an AWT.  

To use an extreme example if you train your horse up during the late winter/early spring on the Riccarton AWT and then had raced on the track presented on 3 October is your horse more likely to become sore/lame than if it had be trained up on a firmer surface or perhaps more importantly an inconsistent surface?

Bone density increases when it is placed under stress - it is a natural physiological response.  If you don't place a horse under stress and then allow periods of recovery bone density will not increase.

[curious]

15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

To use an extreme example if you train your horse up during the late winter/early spring on the Riccarton AWT and then had raced on the track presented on 3 October is your horse more likely to become sore/lame than if it had be trained up on a firmer surface or perhaps more importantly an inconsistent surface?

 

I don't think so. That's too short a training period for bone to adapt or de-adapt as I understand it.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, curious said:

I don't think so. That's too short a training period for bone to adapt or de-adapt as I understand it.

I was more thinking about the accumulative affect of a number of seasons training on the AWT (and soft tracks) e.g. the UK.

[curious]

The other less catastrophic issue is that if young horses (or indeed older horses in their first preps) are trained primarily on AWTs then raced or galloped on firmish grass tracks, 90% of them will go shin sore.

Edited November 11, 2020 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

15 hours ago, curious said:

Quite agree with Lee. In fact I posted this on another channel recently:

I wonder where they got that figure? The 6 months I mean. Seems a bit of an odd request. Wouldn't requiring bone imaging, say CT scans, before they are cleared to race be a better and more pragmatic option?

But where do draw the line with CT/MRI scans?  Why only for the Melbourne Cup?  How do you determine the line where a horse is OK or it isn't?  Seems a slippery slope to me.  Statistically is it going to make a difference?

Was Anthony Van Dyck scanned when he arrived?

[curious]

 

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

But where do draw the line with CT/MRI scans?  Why only for the Melbourne Cup?  How do you determine the line where a horse is OK or it isn't?  Seems a slippery slope to me.  Statistically is it going to make a difference?

Was Anthony Van Dyck scanned when he arrived?

I suppose if you were serious about preventing catastrophic race day injury you could require that all horses have one before they can race.

[Joe Bloggs]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I don't disagree however the point Freedman has made (and others) is that the difference between UK horse training and Australia is that the surfaces are generally softer.  So when they travel south their legs are not accustomed to the harder surfaces so any latent issues with their legs are quickly found out.

So if you agree with that logic and we train more on softer/forgiving surfaces will we increase the potential of breakdown especially when our main money tracks (stakes wise) are considerably more firmer than an AWT.  

To use an extreme example if you train your horse up during the late winter/early spring on the Riccarton AWT and then had raced on the track presented on 3 October is your horse more likely to become sore/lame than if it had be trained up on a firmer surface or perhaps more importantly an inconsistent surface?

Bone density increases when it is placed under stress - it is a natural physiological response.  If you don't place a horse under stress and then allow periods of recovery bone density will not increase.

The glaring anomaly here is,......the AWT at Newmarket is in a straight line!...as are the gallops, they work up to 50 horses in a single line, it's uphill too, as was the training tracks at Lindsay Park [CSH] 50 bloody years ago....you work and gallop horses around bends you gonna get injuries......DUH.

[Chief Stipe]

21 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

The glaring anomaly here is,......the AWT at Newmarket is in a straight line!...as are the gallops, they work up to 50 horses in a single line, it's uphill too, as was the training tracks at Lindsay Park [CSH] 50 bloody years ago....you work and gallop horses around bends you gonna get injuries......DUH.

I hear you and NZ has some of the best training tracks free of charge and auto maintained in the world - none near the Waikato though.  I see a lot of trainers use one near Melbourne.  This one isn't near Melbourne though but 200m from the Ruakaka race track.

[curious]

12 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

The glaring anomaly here is,......the AWT at Newmarket is in a straight line!...as are the gallops, they work up to 50 horses in a single line, it's uphill too, as was the training tracks at Lindsay Park [CSH] 50 bloody years ago....you work and gallop horses around bends you gonna get injuries......DUH.

If bone and soft tissue is conditioned to working round bends by working and galloping round bends, doesn't that mitigate the risk of injury when racing around bends though? Part of the issue here is that horses are presented for racing that don't have that conditioning whether it be for track surfaces or bends, that will increase the likelihood of injury when they meet those bends and surfaces under race conditions?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Used to gallop on the beach at Otaki, Holiday Wynn, and Four Leaf to name just two.........they both won in Oz, Four Leaf should have won the Melbourne Cup but poorly ridden by Midge Didham, sacked,  next start and ridden by Wayne Trealor he wins what became the Sandown Cup......shoot me, I'm waffling......but that beach was just the best!

[curious]

Love my one!

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, curious said:

Love my one!

I see the tyre tacks Curious - did you run the groomer across before you galloped?

[Joe Bloggs]

3 minutes ago, curious said:

If bone and soft tissue is conditioned to working round bends by working and galloping round bends, doesn't that mitigate the risk of injury when racing around bends though? Part of the issue here is that horses are presented for racing that don't have that conditioning whether it be for track surfaces or bends, that will increase the likelihood of injury when they meet those bends and surfaces under race conditions?

 

In theory yes, and here's a conundrum .......I used to ride work at Canterbury, when it was a big training centre, that's Canterbury Sydney.......I'd never ridden on anything as tight, rode a Oaks winner work, Bonny Belle, and a Doomben Cup winner in Spasky.......they both trained on and were sound, that track is 1500 m around the training tracks were 1400 max....you were turning, and really turning from the 600..........the cinders tracks were unforgivable, Jack Denham won or was runner up to TJ Smith training from that track........but, I saw more breakdowns on that track than Rosehill or Randwick.....a lot more........the more you accentuate the angles the more chance that horse will do a tendon or suspensiory or worse......IMO.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Joe Bloggs said:

In theory yes, and here's a conundrum .......I used to ride work at Canterbury, when it was a big training centre, that's Canterbury Sydney.......I'd never ridden on anything as tight, rode a Oaks winner work, Bonny Belle, and a Doomben Cup winner in Spasky.......they both trained on and were sound, that track is 1500 m around the training tracks were 1400 max....you were turning, and really turning from the 600..........the cinders tracks were unforgivable, Jack Denham won or was runner up to TJ Smith training from that track........but, I saw more breakdowns on that track than Rosehill or Randwick.....a lot more........the more you accentuate the angles the more chance that horse will do a tendon or suspensiory or worse......IMO.

But by the time you get to that stage hasn't the build up work been done elsewhere?  Also isn't speed at which you are galloping the key factor.

[curious]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I see the tyre tacks Curious - did you run the groomer across before you galloped?

No. God does that for me every night as long as I say my prayers. The ultimate maintenance cost free AWT. And you could gallop 15 together along side one another as you can see. It also has facilities for cooling off tendons and ligaments immediately after the gallop.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, curious said:

No. God does that for me every night as long as I say my prayers. The ultimate maintenance cost free AWT. And you could gallop 15 together along side one another as you can see. It also has facilities for cooling off tendons and ligaments immediately after the gallop.

Cool you have your own water walker.

[curious]

Just now, Chief Stipe said:

Cool you have your own water walker.

That too on non-gallop days.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But by the time you get to that stage hasn't the build up work been done elsewhere?  Also isn't speed at which you are galloping the key factor.

Yes and yes, we never let their heads go until we straightened, you had to hold them together, but at Flemington even on the B grass you could run time 10m out as the bends were sweeping rather than turning...if you get my drift.......only saw 1 or 2 break down at Flemington in the 6 years I was there, and there were larger numbers back then with CSH and JBC training.

[curious]

[Huey]

One concern I have  is , what happens if the AWT don't deliver as expected and they have wiped out 70% of the tracks across the country in trying to prove they do?