Chief Stipe Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Trainer Annabel Neasham fined after Zaaki positive sample By Luke Sheehan Yesterday at 4:53pm The Neasham-trained ZaakiImage: Getty Boom trainer Annabel Neasham has been fined $7000 after her star galloper Zaaki produced a positive sample to a prohibited substance from a Sydney race in April. The English import has burst onto the scene via some commanding wins in Queensland, but the positive sample produced by Zaaki precedes that - with a pre-race blood sample producing a positive to the anti-inflammatory, meloxicam from his second-up performance weeks prior. The race in question was the Group Three JRA Plate (2000m) at Randwick on April 24, with Paths Of Glory narrowly holding out Zaaki in the finish. Group One-winning trainer Neasham put out a statement clarifying the circumstances of the positive sample. She also declared that "the results that have been returned from his wins in Queensland were negative". “Today I attended an inquiry with Racing NSW stewards after being informed that our star galloper Zaaki had returned a positive pre-race sample to the anti-inflammatory meloxicam, after his second-placed performance in the G3 JRA Plate at Randwick on April 24. His post-race urine sample returned a negative result,” Neasham said. “I am extremely disappointed to get this news, not only because it undermines the standard of integrity and professionalism the stable represents and that everyone in the team strives to achieve, but also for Zaaki’s owners who are great friends and supporters. “Meloxicam is a widely-used veterinarian-prescribed therapeutic medication that is given to horses as an anti-inflammatory, and often given post galloping. Zaaki was routinely given the treatment after his final Tuesday gallop, as is common practice for many stables. Subsequently, the results that have been returned from his wins in Queensland were negative. “I have the utmost respect for the Racing NSW stewards and their integrity process and accept full responsibility for this unfortunate result. It is a steep learning curve, and to mitigate future risk I will be reviewing all our processes to ensure this does not happen again, which will include lowering our dosage level of meloxicam. “I look forward to moving past this and continuing to develop the record and reputation of the stable.” In fining Neasham, stewards took into account her guilty plea and relative inexperience as a licenced trainer, the fact it was a Group Three during the Sydney carnival and also evidence from Racing NSW’s vet Dr Toby Koenig that the gelding was administered meloxicam above the recommended dosage. Zaaki was subsequently disqualified from his second-placing to Paths Of Glory in the JRA Plate, with Hang Man (second) and Polly Grey (third) promoted in the placings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 18, 2021 Author Share Posted June 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: “Meloxicam is a widely-used veterinarian-prescribed therapeutic medication that is given to horses as an anti-inflammatory, and often given post galloping. Zaaki was routinely given the treatment after his final Tuesday gallop, as is common practice for many stables. Subsequently, the results that have been returned from his wins in Queensland were negative. Which reinforces the point that I've made about the elite Trainers being proactive in the administration of medication as preventative measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 20 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Which reinforces the point that I've made about the elite Trainers being proactive in the administration of medication as preventative measures. Amazing all these positives that are just idle mistakes all of a sudden isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 18, 2021 Author Share Posted June 18, 2021 15 hours ago, Huey said: Amazing all these positives that are just idle mistakes all of a sudden isn't it? What do you mean "ALL these positives"? Hardly a significant number considering how many horses are tested each week. That aside one of the reasons for the number of positives is the increased accuracy of the testing. Zero thresholds need to be revisited and some work done on what levels are actually performance enhancing or therapeutic. Maybe it is time for Grierson to earn whatever the industry pay him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: What do you mean "ALL these positives"? Hardly a significant number considering how many horses are tested each week. That aside one of the reasons for the number of positives is the increased accuracy of the testing. Zero thresholds need to be revisited and some work done on what levels are actually performance enhancing or therapeutic. Maybe it is time for Grierson to earn whatever the industry pay him. It's called DRUG FREE Racing...ok? Unless 'The complete guide to cheats and vagabonds' is written and every single drug is analysed for its performance enhancements... ...we'll have to do with DFR... ok? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 23 minutes ago, Thomass said: It's called DRUG FREE Racing...ok? Unless 'The complete guide to cheats and vagabonds' is written and every single drug is analysed for its performance enhancements... ...we'll have to do with DFR... ok? Obviously you have no interest in equine health, safety and welfare. The two most recent drug positives posted on BOAY were for therapeutic medication. But I guess you don't actually give a shit about a horses actual health. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 On 6/19/2021 at 5:53 PM, Chief Stipe said: Obviously you have no interest in equine health, safety and welfare. The two most recent drug positives posted on BOAY were for therapeutic medication. But I guess you don't actually give a shit about a horses actual health. Chief, Why do you always have to put the boot into everyone on this site..... you really are doing a great job at driving people away from your own site. Any by the way, why should horses even be racing if they need therapeutic medication... I’m sure the woke green washing individuals out there will have a field day if our trainers keep this up. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 22, 2021 Author Share Posted June 22, 2021 16 hours ago, Tesio said: Any by the way, why should horses even be racing if they need therapeutic medication... I’m sure the woke green washing individuals out there will have a field day if our trainers keep this up. There would not be one horse that does not complete a race that does not finish with either EIPH or is sore. That's a fact for any high performance equine athlete. Especially those that try. Those trainers that use modern methods and technology to prevent, mediate and medicate the inevitable should be applauded not denigrated. The zero threshold today is not the zero threshold of yesterday. The accuracy is to a level that it is returning positives for trainers that are doing the best for their horses. It is legal to administer the majority of drugs that are returning positives during training for therapeutic reasons but there must be a zero threshold on raceday. That level can be so minute that it has no therapeutic value let alone a performance enhancing effect which it never had at full dosage. So who is setting up the "woke" animal rights groups? The trainers who are looking after the health and welfare of their horses using modern treatments and technologies (many the same that Olympic athletes use) or the industry Feds who are too lazy and or incompetent to get pff their arses and address this issue? PS: I'll continue to call Thomarse an idiot as long as he posts crap written in his pseudo juvenile humorist style I.e. the moment he has respect for the forum then he will receive respect in return. That and his banging on about the same crap that he has been banging on about for two decades e.g. Kevin Myers and Trackside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 20 hours ago, Tesio said: Chief, Why do you always have to put the boot into everyone on this site..... you really are doing a great job at driving people away from your own site. Any by the way, why should horses even be racing if they need therapeutic medication... I’m sure the woke green washing individuals out there will have a field day if our trainers keep this up. You're onto it Fred... The Chief loves drug racing...and whipping his ass off... Meanwhile the social license that racing is allowed to race under.. ..does NOT include perpetual life long use of anti inflammatory meds, Bute and lasix in training....as Waller does There should be vastly reduced use of therapeutics including set time limits in a season... ...along with Whip bans... ...as we know Whips increase speed and also stress Wrt EIPH or bleeding... We desperately need to selectively breed this trait out of the Thoroughbred Just like the Germans do.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: There would not be one horse that does not complete a race that does not finish with either EIPH or is sore. That's a fact for any high performance equine athlete. Especially those that try. Is that not what recovery medication and supplements are for...... and given AFTER A RACE. or would you simply prefer to see horses drugged up so they run through pain barriers on the track artificially? You argue it’s not performance enhancing, but if a horse has blockers to help it through the pain barrier during a race that is still illegal performance assistance any day of the week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Thomass said: We desperately need to selectively breed this trait out of the Thoroughbred Just like the Germans do.... They haven't eliminated it yet have they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Tesio said: Is that not what recovery medication and supplements are for...... and given AFTER A RACE. What about after fast work? Or using supplements that have a preventative property before hard work or racing? 3 hours ago, Tesio said: or would you simply prefer to see horses drugged up so they run through pain barriers on the track artificially? No I don't support that nor have a I promoted it. 3 hours ago, Tesio said: You argue it’s not performance enhancing, but if a horse has blockers to help it through the pain barrier during a race that is still illegal performance assistance any day of the week. Where have I mentioned "blockers"? Or for that matter medicating for a race? Of the recent Thoroughbred positives mentioned on this forum which one was performance enhancing? I'll answer that for you. NONE! ZIP! NADA! ZERO! Not the Te Akau morphine one, not the Baffert one, not the Oulaghan one. Not only were they not at a level that was performance enhancing they weren't even at a level that was therapeutic!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What about after fast work? Or using supplements that have a preventative property before hard work or racing? You just don’t get it.... why would a horse need substances that have zero tolerance on race day in order to race. It’s black and white chief. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance. And for fast work, well if a horse needs those drugs to get through fast work, should they really be racing in a few days time.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 38 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: No I don't support that nor have a I promoted it. But yiu want thresholds raised for therapeutic drugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, Tesio said: You just don’t get it.... why would a horse need substances that have zero tolerance on race day in order to race. It’s black and white chief. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance. And for fast work, well if a horse needs those drugs to get through fast work, should they really be racing in a few days time.... I'm sorry @Tesio YOU just don't get it. It isn't black and white nor is today's Zero the same as Zero 5 or ten years ago. Tests today can easily find levels of a substance that weren't close to being detectable previously. For example the PCR test used for Covid-19 return a positive for one molecular size part fragment of the virus. The classic case in NZ was the 2013 Chilcott harness racing positive to Tramadol. Chilcott was taking Tramadol for a back injury - at some stage it appears that going through her work one of her horses was contaminated. The test result was 100 picograms per milliliter (Bafferts positive was 9 picograms). Professor Tobin as the expert witness drew the analogy that 100 picograms/milliliter was the equivalent to 1 second in the life of a person if they lived to be 320 years old! At that level there was zero therapeutic value. The end result was the horse was disqualified and Chilcott fined and ordered to pay costs. The recent Te Akau was a better case of environmental contamination. Again very very low levels of morphine were detected. Levels that were so low that it was agreed that there was no chance of a therapeutic effect at that level. Yet Richards got his first ever positive, a fine and the horse was disqualified losing $40k in stakes and black type. Both these cases highlight that Zero thresholds results in poor justice. Hence with Workplace testing for humans they have a threshold whereby environmental contamination is not an issue even though the result is not zero. You could return a positive to a prohibited substance by having brushed past or been in the company of someone who had used the substance yet you hadn't. Granted in both the above cases the environmental contamination could have been avoided. However in the Oulaghan and Baffert cases they were using legitimate medications to treat their horses. With Baffert the level returned at 9 picograms was nowhere near a level that was performance enhancing let alone therapeutic. Surely in these instances the new Zero shouldn't be Zero. Otherwise you have the media highlighting that the industry is rife with horse drugging and people such as Thomarse bang on about from a point of ignorance for months although in @Thomass's case make that decades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 40 minutes ago, Tesio said: But yiu want thresholds raised for therapeutic drugs Yes. The intent of the rules are to stop people cheating or gaining an advantage on raceday by administering an illegal or legal drug. If a legal drug is approved for therapeutic reasons and a positive is returned on raceday then some consideration should be given to what level was detected and whether or not that level was therapeutic or performance enhancing. If the level detected was neither therapeutic or performance enhancing then no advantage was gained. The classic case of that was the recent morphine positive from the Te Akau stable. Not only is morphine a legal therapeutic substance (albeit of limited use) but the administration was agreed by all to be only from environmental contamination and it was at a level that had no therapeutic value (morphine is not a PED). If the racing jurisdictions don't address this issue then we will see more and more positives returned not through deliberate administration but because the levels that can be detected are infinitesimally small. The irony is that 10 years ago the Te Akau positive probably wouldn't have been detectable!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I'm sorry @Tesio YOU just don't get it. It isn't black and white nor is today's Zero the same as Zero 5 or ten years ago. Tests today can easily find levels of a substance that weren't close to being detectable previously. For example the PCR test used for Covid-19 return a positive for one molecular size part fragment of the virus. The classic case in NZ was the 2013 Chilcott harness racing positive to Tramadol. Chilcott was taking Tramadol for a back injury - at some stage it appears that going through her work one of her horses was contaminated. The test result was 100 picograms per milliliter (Bafferts positive was 9 picograms). Professor Tobin as the expert witness drew the analogy that 100 picograms/milliliter was the equivalent to 1 second in the life of a person if they lived to be 320 years old! At that level there was zero therapeutic value. The end result was the horse was disqualified and Chilcott fined and ordered to pay costs. The recent Te Akau was a better case of environmental contamination. Again very very low levels of morphine were detected. Levels that were so low that it was agreed that there was no chance of a therapeutic effect at that level. Yet Richards got his first ever positive, a fine and the horse was disqualified losing $40k in stakes and black type. Both these cases highlight that Zero thresholds results in poor justice. Hence with Workplace testing for humans they have a threshold whereby environmental contamination is not an issue even though the result is not zero. You could return a positive to a prohibited substance by having brushed past or been in the company of someone who had used the substance yet you hadn't. Granted in both the above cases the environmental contamination could have been avoided. However in the Oulaghan and Baffert cases they were using legitimate medications to treat their horses. With Baffert the level returned at 9 picograms was nowhere near a level that was performance enhancing let alone therapeutic. Surely in these instances the new Zero shouldn't be Zero. Otherwise you have the media highlighting that the industry is rife with horse drugging and people such as Thomarse bang on about from a point of ignorance for months although in @Thomass's case make that decades. I told you to go away and read up about PICOGRAMS but you refused... No surprises there.... You're coming from a base of GROSS IGNORANCE Baffy the Drug Lover was caught with 21 PICOGRAMS of the stuff per 1 ml 50,000 mls in a horse.... Hell, even silly old Curious knows that's over a MILLION PICOGRAMS circulating through this horse's being...and that's only the blood spectrum ..then there's the tissue And there's always LASIX hovering in the background....a masking agent that potentially flushes out any other drugs waiting to be detected I wonder if they banned Waller and his others high performing Training mates from using this masking agent... Whether they'd be so good?? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Thomass said: I told you to go away and read up about PICOGRAMS but you refused... No surprises there.... Really Thomarse. I fully understand what picograms are - however you have no comprehension whatsoever which isn't surprising given your constant posting of crap that shows you don't even understand basic statistics or probability. Hence your failure as a punter and a tipster. 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Baffy the Drug Lover was caught with 21 PICOGRAMS of the stuff per 1 ml 50,000 mls in a horse.... Are you for real? You infer you know EVERYTHING about picograms and you post this nonsense? SO there are 50,000 mls of blood circulating in a horse. For arguments sake we'll use 10 picograms of a substance - lets say Morphine. It is circulating in that blood at a concentration of 10 picograms per ml. Who knows what Thomarse is rabbiting on about but let's assume that he is inferring that we should multiply that 10 picograms by 50,000 mls to get the total amount of morphine circulating in the blood in the horse. So 50,000 times 10 = 500,000 picograms. That's 0.0000005 grams! Or 0.0000000005 kilograms of morphine circulating in the blood stream of a 500kg horse. Recommended dosages of analgesic (pain relief) morphine is around 0.22mg/kg. For treating a horse with colic the recommended dose is 22mg per hour for a 450kg horse. At that dosage pain relief lasts for 4 hours. That's 220,000,000,000 picograms or 4,400,000 picograms per ml of blood. (Happy to have these figures challenged by a vet or the RIU but at the end of the day 21 picograms per ml is very very very small). Now Thomarse will have us believe he knows better than ALL the scientists and ALL the vets when he says that 21 picograms per ml or in round figures 0.00000048 of the recommended therapeutic dose had a performance enhancing effect! Dream on idiot! 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Hell, even silly old Curious knows that's over a MILLION PICOGRAMS circulating through this horse's being...and that's only the blood spectrum You're an idiot who I wouldn't let near ANY horse! 1 hour ago, Thomass said: And there's always LASIX hovering in the background....a masking agent that potentially flushes out any other drugs waiting to be detected I wonder if they banned Waller and his others high performing Training mates from using this masking agent... You'd rather a horse was drowning in its own blood? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: You're an idiot who I wouldn't let near ANY horse! You'd rather a horse was drowning in its own blood? Exactly. Lasix has been used to mitigate EIPH damage for decades. Any raceday residual in non-therapeutic or performance enhancing amounts is a nonsense and should not be penalised. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 24, 2021 Author Share Posted June 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, curious said: Exactly. Lasix has been used to mitigate EIPH damage for decades. Any raceday residual in non-therapeutic or performance enhancing amounts is a nonsense and should not be penalised. Yes and if the Industry doesn't address these issues then we will find ourselves in a no win situation. Where we can't practise good animal husbandry and open ourselves up to accusations of exploitation and neglect while at the same time publicly exposing ourselves to accusations of drug abuse when raceday positives of no therapeutic or PED value are inevitably found. I have serious doubts that an ex-cop leading the RIU will help let alone put a fire under the long time Industry appointed Chief Vet Grierson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 18 minutes ago, curious said: Exactly. Lasix has been used to mitigate EIPH damage for decades. Any raceday residual in non-therapeutic or performance enhancing amounts is a nonsense and should not be penalised. Now you're showing where your colours are hoisted C Youre a drug loving Yankee dirt tracker from wayyyy back...yea? Of course blokes like you simply ignore how weakened the breed has become and how few starts a 'racing career' entails now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 24, 2021 Author Share Posted June 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, Thomass said: Now you're showing where your colours are hoisted C Youre a drug loving Yankee dirt tracker from wayyyy back...yea? Of course blokes like you simply ignore how weakened the breed has become and how few starts a 'racing career' entails now... Tell that to Chris Waller and Winx and Verry Elleegant. Or for that matter to Jamie Richards and Melody Belle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Yes and if the Industry doesn't address these issues then we will find ourselves in a no win situation. Where we can't practise good animal husbandry and open ourselves up to accusations of exploitation and neglect while at the same time publicly exposing ourselves to accusations of drug abuse when raceday positives of no therapeutic or PED value are inevitably found. I have serious doubts that an ex-cop leading the RIU will help let alone put a fire under the long time Industry appointed Chief Vet Grierson. You should educate yourself in the Jason Servis indictments where PED's were non detectable but showed up as false positives... Lets see...why did Baffo the Drug Lover have 7 horses die on him suddenly a few years back..was he in contact with Jase's illegal drug supplier and overdosed his horses with non detectable PED's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thomass said: how weakened the breed has become and how few starts a 'racing career' entails now... I agree with that but trainers have to deal with and manage the material they have on hand. As a punter, I certainly don't want to be on a horse that had a significant but undetected bleed during a hitout mid-week or one that couldn't be given anti-inflammatories to assist recoveries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 24, 2021 Author Share Posted June 24, 2021 Just now, Thomass said: You should educate yourself in the Jason Servis indictments where PED's were non detectable but showed up as false positives... You should educate yourself fullstop. You are a typical internet troll where you rely on repeatedly misquoting and misinforming in the vain hope that if you do it often enough someone will believe you. 3 minutes ago, Thomass said: Lets see...why did Baffo the Drug Lover have 7 horses die on him suddenly a few years back..was he in contact with Jase's illegal drug supplier and overdosed his horses with non detectable PED's? Again misinformation. What do you deem as "sudden"? Breaking a leg, a heart attack or falling over in a box? Why are you asking questions if you don't know the answers? Hint: Don't take up criminal law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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