Karrotsisback Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 Saw a brief blurb on HRNZ today about Fasika winning 1st up & being sold to Aus. So prompt me to take a look at how many Sweet Lous win quickly - (clear maidens easy/quickly), as this is something I’v noted. Going thru his winners (oldest now aged 4) here are the stats out of 61 NZ born winners on HRNZ site - actually I found 62 as My Ultimate Baxter hasn’t been added yet. List shows how long it took at horse to win 1st up to 6th Up. 58 out of 62 winners make list Woodlea Beaver won on 7th attempt, but chose not to add her as made it up to 6 starts only. (Bet some of these owners bagged a bargain, based on sales prices and sires fee). Celtic Spirit 1st Up Fasika 1st Chevron Flies 1st Darling Me 1st Im a Gigolo 1st Larry Lincoln 1st My Ultimate Chevron 1st Pinupboy 1st Spirit of St Louis 1st Sweet Belle 1st Sweet on Me 1st Who Made Who 1st Prestige Stride 1st (Oz) Sweet Deal 1st (Oz) My Ultimate Baxter (Oz) (15) Ardens Sweetheart 2nd Up Bizzie Lou 2nd Dyslexic 2nd Luella 2nd Sugar Me 2nd Sweet Treat 2nd Viva Las Vegas 2nd Virgil 2nd Classic Choice 2nd (Oz) Bradley 2nd (Oz) (10) Aladdin 3rd Up Mighty Looee 3rd Marathon Man 3rd Firefox 3rd Thee Old Bomb 3rd Blue Ivy 3rd (Oz) Sweet Maddison 3rd (Oz) Tyron Terranova 3rd (Oz) (8) Bankers Gold 4th Up Doctor Love 4th Hemsworth 4th Oroua 4th Outlaw Man 4th Sweet Affinity 4th Tiger Lou 4th Toodaloolou 4th Bells and Whistles 4th (Oz) (9) Louiethehorse 5th Up Louiethepunter 5th Sweet Lizzie 5th Joey Lincoln 5th (Oz) (4) Fabrizio 6th Up Easy Does it 6th Cantfindabettorman 6th Renegade Rose 6th (4) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 Latest update, Sugar Apple gets added to list (JUST). Yay for Sugar at start 6! Wont give a running commentary on this, but wanted to add him after that whole Jewels run! Right Im going to log off for a few days, as just talking to myself here which ain’t as much fun. Nite all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 56 minutes ago, Karrotsisback said: Latest update, Sugar Apple gets added to list (JUST). Yay for Sugar at start 6! Wont give a running commentary on this, but wanted to add him after that whole Jewels run! Right Im going to log off for a few days, as just talking to myself here which ain’t as much fun. Nite all. Karrots, you need to post stuff that is debatable and then they come out of the woodwork! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 On 8/12/2021 at 8:28 PM, Brodie said: Karrots, you need to post stuff that is debatable and then they come out of the woodwork! Yeah know what you mean re debatable, however like talking about horses or things noticed or up & coming races, yearling sales, stallions, commentators anything about the horses. Noticed this site called peterprofit.com as someone on gallops posted about it. Took a peak & its certainly no holds bar, Keeping with topic an article titled “Was Always B Mikis 1st Crop A Fluke? Follows up with Stats USA. 1st Downbytheseaside 2nd Capaintreacherous 3rd Huntsville 4th Lou - (actually need to add Lancewood Louie also my initial list after win at start 6)! 5th American Ideal 6th Betting Line Miki doesn’t come in Top 20 Latest article writer says "Harness NSW should lock themselves up as says they have filmed themselves breaking Covid law" & posted a pic/video. There is another 1 about an Oz driver appearing in Court & another article about a NZ trainer which I found a bit disturbing IF its true. There is also 1 about Wigg, no follow up yet. Now no-one shoot the messenger here, Im replying to Brods quote re debatable topics, this website is public & a BOAY gallops poster, posted about it recently (hence alerted me to it). Plenty of things from that website Brods for you to debate lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 26 minutes ago, Karrotsisback said: Yeah know what you mean re debatable, however like talking about horses or things noticed or up & coming races, yearling sales, stallions, commentators anything about the horses. Noticed this site called peterprofit.com as someone on gallops posted about it. Took a peak & its certainly no holds bar, Keeping with topic an article titled “Was Always B Mikis 1st Crop A Fluke? Follows up with Stats USA. 1st Downbytheseaside 2nd Capaintreacherous 3rd Huntsville 4th Lou - (actually need to add Lancewood Louie also my initial list after win at start 6)! 5th American Ideal 6th Betting Line Miki doesn’t come in Top 20 Latest article writer says "Harness NSW should lock themselves up as says they have filmed themselves breaking Covid law" & posted a pic/video. There is another 1 about an Oz driver appearing in Court & another article about a NZ trainer which I found a bit disturbing IF its true. There is also 1 about Wigg, no follow up yet. Now no-one shoot the messenger here, Im replying to Brods quote re debatable topics, this website is public & a BOAY gallops poster, posted about it recently (hence alerted me to it). Plenty of things from that website Brods for you to debate lol. What is the price to go to Sweet Lou this year? Be interesting to see what other sire is around his value 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 15, 2021 Author Share Posted August 15, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Roman said: What is the price to go to Sweet Lou this year? Be interesting to see what other sire is around his value Looks like it is still NZD7,500 + GST in NZ atm. IMO they should not put it up. As he still lacks numbers with star quality. From his oldest crop yes had Sweet On Me, top filly her year as 2 y-o & Spirit is his top 4y/o boy, whom would be in say top 4-6 ish age group boys. Feel free BOAY posters to post here, if you have a fav sire or 1 you have noticed as being good current value for money and why 😄 Lou is currently good value for money as one would have a reasonable expectation if owned a Lou to win a maiden within 1st, 6 starts. After that is up in air with how far each horse will go. Edited August 15, 2021 by Karrotsisback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With A Dream Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 12 hours ago, Karrotsisback said: Miki doesn’t come in Top 20 As far as money won goes he was 3rd leading 2 year old sire in 2020 in USA and currently 12th leading sire of 2 year olds this year. (Bettors Delight 14th on the list) His 2 year olds of last season have gone on with it this year as he is 3rd leading sire of 3 year olds currently. Downbytheseaside leading 2 year old sire in USA so he looks great value at $6K. USA results aren't always a good indicator of how a stallion will perform here though. Somebeachsomewhere never got the results here he got in the USA and Bettors Delight is being out performed by a few stallions in the states that just can't compete with him here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 15, 2021 Author Share Posted August 15, 2021 Hey WAD Thanks for reply & input, Actually don’t follow USA racing much or at all, had just seen this PP website so took a peak & noted this article in keeping with topic. No idea then where this author got these stats from, my post was re Miki doesn’t come in top 20 was based on it. Maybe the author is posting fake news … ?? Yes agree Downbytheseasside currently seems to be value for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With A Dream Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 That list is based on average earnings of progeny as opposed to total earnings. i think they work it out by dividing total earnings of the stallion by the number of foals it had. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 15, 2021 Author Share Posted August 15, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, With A Dream said: That list is based on average earnings of progeny as opposed to total earnings. i think they work it out by dividing total earnings of the stallion by the number of foals it had. Ok roger that. Sneaky sneaky the article leading Karrots to believe Miki wasn't performing. So lets do a value for money BOAY list re sires here are our nominations so far any other noms out there? * Sweet Lou (NZD7,500 + GST) * DownbytheSeaSide (NZD6,000 + GST) * Always B Miki (NZD7,500 + GST) Edited August 15, 2021 by Karrotsisback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 15, 2021 Author Share Posted August 15, 2021 A good video if anyone is interested to watch. On Woodlands 20/21 stallions. Interviews with Purdons, Dunns, Dalgety, Telfer etc. Actually Dalgety passed on news that Fabrizio is off to race in Canada now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-etDnxOBOA&t=715s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With A Dream Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Karrotsisback said: A good video if anyone is interested to watch. On Woodlands 20/21 stallions. Interviews with Purdons, Dunns, Dalgety, Telfer etc. Actually Dalgety passed on news that Fabrizio is off to race in Canada now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-etDnxOBOA&t=715s Thanks for that Karrots. Another thing I find interesting is the Trotting Sires in USA. A Stallion called Walner is killing it over there with his oldest crop 2 year olds, well and truly out performing all the big name trotting stallion such as Chapter Seven, Fr Patrick, Muscle Mass etc. He only raced as a 2 year old and early 3 year old (must have gone sore perhaps) but I think he only had one defeat. He won just over $500k, not a lot for a stud stallion. He doesn't appear to be available here despite most of the top ones there and in Europe available by Frozen Semen. His stud fee is us$20k which tells you all you need to know. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Karrotsisback said: A good video if anyone is interested to watch. On Woodlands 20/21 stallions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-etDnxOBOA&t=715s Opps meant 21/22 stallions. Thanks WAD for contributing & Roman. Was wondering about some trotting sires. Who we could add to list ... ? Anyone anyone. Wonder if Speeding Spurs offspring will have his stretch the neck out thing too hehe. Think maybe Fitzgerald you maybe the promotor or helping promote the sire the 1 that won the Jewels Sky Major is it ... ? Might have that wrong not sure ... Feel free to give him a plug here, if there is anything you deem worth to report e.g. horses are looking good or something ... or a pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gospel of Judas Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Karrotsisback said: Opps meant 21/22 stallions. Thanks WAD for contributing & Roman. Was wondering about some trotting sires. Who we could add to list ... ? Anyone anyone. Wonder if Speeding Spurs offspring will have his stretch the neck out thing too hehe. Think maybe Fitzgerald you maybe the promotor or helping promote the sire the 1 that won the Jewels Sky Major is it ... ? Might have that wrong not sure ... Feel free to give him a plug here, if there is anything you deem worth to report e.g. horses are looking good or something ... or a pic. Think Andrew is promotor for Terror To Love. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gospel of Judas said: Think Andrew is promotor for Terror To Love. Right you are there Gospel knew it was a sire just wasn't 100% sure which. Great you bounced over here to check-in, into this convo. Speaking of Fitzgerald, just noticed this good write up article about him out today & what he is doing to help attract new owners etc. https://www.hrnz.co.nz/news/fitzgerald-out-to-make-a-difference/ This is also mentioned in article - (This has also led to managing McDonald Bloodstock Limited who own Terror To Love). So noms are open for the next 48 hours for BOAY value for money sires pacers & trotters. Have to give a reason why to be included on the list. If low noms then Ill add another or maybe you Gospel or Gamms. Edited August 16, 2021 by Karrotsisback 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 42 minutes ago, Karrotsisback said: So noms are open for the next 48 hours for BOAY value for money sires pacers & trotters. Have to give a reason why to be included on the list. If low noms then Ill add another or maybe you Gospel or Gamms. In the trotting ranks MAJESTIC SON is a no-brainer at $5000 if you want a trotting foal. !!!! being the sire of currnet Group 1 winners Sundee's Son and Majestic Man leading the way. Pacers ? well Lazarus failed to get the Aussie mares in foal ??? so has been sent back to Alabar as well , to see how Majestic Son does it maybe ? lol........ the Aussie girls too tough for Lazarus? lol.... Too hot in NSW apparently ? lol. give him a go there ? as best stallion to of raced in NZ and Aus so try for one half as good ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: In the trotting ranks MAJESTIC SON is a no-brainer at $5000 if you want a trotting foal. !!!! being the sire of currnet Group 1 winners Sundee's Son and Majestic Man leading the way. Pacers ? well Lazarus failed to get the Aussie mares in foal ??? so has been sent back to Alabar as well , to see how Majestic Son does it maybe ? lol........ the Aussie girls too tough for Lazarus? lol.... Too hot in NSW apparently ? lol. give him a go there ? as best stallion to of raced in NZ and Aus so try for one half as good ??? Wow didn’t realise Majestic Son was only $5k, will add & Laz for your reasons given - NZD7,500 + GST. Will also add Vincent too on behalf of Poster M. Reason Feiss is supporting Vincent, so might be lucky enough to have her bid on your Vincent at next yearling sale NZD4,500 + GST & aren’t they fine looking animals. Shall be a wait & see if they do the business on the track. Captain Crunch can also get the nod, NZD6,500 as he’s nephew of Sweet Lou. His dam is Lou’s sister. Great dam side that family. Both Lou and Lous dam are in Hall of Fame in USA. NB looks like as per Alabar website both Miki & Captain Crunch books are closed & full. Noms so far as below: Sweet Lou 7.5k Always B Miki 7.5k Downbytheseaside 6k Lazarus 7.5k Vincent 4.5k Captain Crunch 6.5k Majestic Son 5k Wonder if the sire that eventually dethrones Bettors is on our list ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, Karrotsisback said: Will also add Vincent too on behalf of Poster M. What a great little horse VINCENT was karrots !! 8 starts in Aus for 7 wins and then a mug Oz driver smashed the tyre off the rim of Mark's sulky in the Victoria Derby $200k race (which he would of won) so cost him dearly. Mark Purdon would still be spitting chips about that 10 years on I reckon.!!! I am fond of Vincent because my last trip to Melbourne I went down with good friends Leigh and Pam Smart for the Vic Oaks as he had two great fillies in the one year from Qld !! 'DONT FALL FOR ME' (who had won NSW Oaks) and 'TOO SMART FOR YOU', they were both beaten by VINCENTs mum !! a mare named KEPT FOR PLEASURE who won that Vic Oaks well indeed , and the Australian Oaks a month later. she was a real Beauty !! 19 wins from 37 starts and 1/2 $mil !!! Leigh is a terrific bloke (now retired) and now gives the foals of 'TOO SMART FOR YOU' to Vicki Rasmussen these days and one of them 'SMART AS CAMM BE' won 17 out of 23 starts last year, and $200k, before tendon issues set in unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With A Dream Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Karrotsisback said: Wonder if the sire that eventually dethrones Bettors is on our list ... I have been thinking about why Bettors is so dominant here but not in the USA. I think the major factor is he crossed so well with Direct Scooter line stallions, first In The Pocket and then Christian Cullen. Though same could not be said for Courage Under Fire. The top Bettors in the states don't seem to have been crossed with that line, maybe because Somebeachsomewhere mares are too young to have much stock racing yet? I would have though he would have had some top horses in the states out of Mach Three mares but it doesn't seem to be the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 11 hours ago, With A Dream said: I have been thinking about why Bettors is so dominant here but not in the USA. I think the major factor is he crossed so well with Direct Scooter line stallions, first In The Pocket and then Christian Cullen. Though same could not be said for Courage Under Fire. The top Bettors in the states don't seem to have been crossed with that line, maybe because Somebeachsomewhere mares are too young to have much stock racing yet? I would have though he would have had some top horses in the states out of Mach Three mares but it doesn't seem to be the case. Good question, no idea, sounds possible tho along with maybe a combination of a few things. The only thing I could think is maybe also horse numbers? (The sires themselves have to be decent to produce even from high numbers). Eg SBSW highest he served in NZ was 88 that was in 2014. His numbers were 16, 13, 1, 75, 88, 35, 87, 76, 70, 5, 0, 0 From 2010 - 2021 Bettors on other hand served during this time period 160, 327, 301, 330, 250, 301, 289, 299, 194, 143, 164, 171 That is a lot more hoof soliders to fly the flag. Vance Hanover Gamms pointed out on another thread said he became a great sire in NZ, Purdon also pointed this out in the video I shared, based on what Gamms said he was pumping them out lots of lil hoof soldiers. Lou served 86, 90, 122, 229, 214, 106 - from 2016 - 2021 Live foals 167 will be 2y/o Jan & starting to hit the track. Compared with Bettors 2019 served 149 live 105. Be interesting to see whose hoof soldiers come out on top between the 2 sires (Lou-Bettors) for that age group year. If there is any change or not ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gospel of Judas Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Better add in Terror to love at $3,000 plus GST. https://www.terrortolove.co.nz/booking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 39 minutes ago, Gospel of Judas said: Better add in Terror to love at $3,000 plus GST. https://www.terrortolove.co.nz/booking Absolutely, as Fitzgerald doesn’t seem interested to participate in this chat so taking a quick glance, have come up with the REASON to add him. His eldest are 4 y-os in which he had just 65 live foals, 33 qualifiers from this crop - 27 starters & 18 winners. His 3 y-o crop comprises of 39 live foals & within this, has had 8 starters for 5 winners. At NZD 3,000 + GST for those looking for a low cost investment The Terror could be your Sire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gospel of Judas Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Karrotsisback said: Absolutely, as Fitzgerald doesn’t seem interested to participate in this chat so taking a quick glance, have come up with the REASON to add him. His eldest are 4 y-os in which he had just 65 live foals, 33 qualifiers from this crop - 27 starters & 18 winners. His 3 y-o crop comprises of 39 live foals & within this, has had 8 starters for 5 winners. At NZD 3,000 + GST for those looking for a low cost investment The Terror could be your Sire. Busy man from what I here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrotsisback Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, Gospel of Judas said: Busy man from what I here. Hear you there Gospel 😄, with respect tho, its part of his job to promote this sire. It took me literally 5 mins or slightly less to reply to your post with a reason. And you just never know who may read these posts. Anyway moving on, updated list 😄 Sweet Lou 7.5k Always B Miki 7.5k Downbytheseaside 6k Lazarus 7.5k Vincent 4.5k Captain Crunch 6.5k Majestic Son 5k Terror to Love $3k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forbury Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/16/2021 at 8:48 AM, With A Dream said: Thanks for that Karrots. Another thing I find interesting is the Trotting Sires in USA. A Stallion called Walner is killing it over there with his oldest crop 2 year olds, well and truly out performing all the big name trotting stallion such as Chapter Seven, Fr Patrick, Muscle Mass etc. He only raced as a 2 year old and early 3 year old (must have gone sore perhaps) but I think he only had one defeat. He won just over $500k, not a lot for a stud stallion. He doesn't appear to be available here despite most of the top ones there and in Europe available by Frozen Semen. His stud fee is us$20k which tells you all you need to know. You stole my thunder.i was going to ask the question who is the hottest sire in the world?walner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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