Darren Smith

[KickintheKods]

I have a question that one of you knowledgeable folk may have the answer to - not you Thomarse coz you know nothing 

 

I see a new name in the training ranks with runners at Ellerslie today. Darren Smith.

In the early 2000 era there was a trainer of the same name at Newcastle who had a bad habit of having to front the stewards on numerous occasions for assisting his horses achieve excellent results. 

The NSW stewards finally ran out of patience and gave him a 15 year holiday, see the article below.

 

I am assuming these are not the same person, and wish this NZ guy all the best.

 

 

A Newcastle horse trainer, found guilty of dozens of doping charges, has today lost an appeal against the length of his sentence.

18 months ago Darren Smith's horse training operation was shut down by Racing New South Wales stewards.

He was found guilty of using cobalt chloride on his runners and given a 15-year ban.

He lost an appeal to the Racing Appeals Panel and then also the Racing Appeals Tribunal.

Today, Smith was unsuccessful in his bid to reduce the sentence.

"Yeah, I was hoping for much less," he said.

"But, it's happened now and we move on to the next chapter of our lives."

Smith said has he has had to lay off 30 workers, but the impact does not stop there.

"It affects the farriers, the produce stores, the mechanics of the trucks," he said.

"I'm devastated about it."

Racing New South Wales chairman of stewards Ray Murrihy said Smith cannot train horses again until 2029.

"Or enter onto a race track, or participate in thoroughbred racing in any of the matters that are prohibited under the rules of racing," he said.

Mr Murrihy said Racing New South Wales feels vindicated by the decision.

"There were 20 odd races that were affected, there were multiple breaches, all impacting on the integrity of racing," he said.

Smith maintains there was no threshold for the use of the substance, and he should not be penalised.

Stewards based their decision to ban Smith by relying on a rule prohibiting any substance which alters the blood pattern of a horse.

 

[Kihikihi Kid]

An answer either way on this would be beneficial ..

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Kihikihi Kid said:

An answer either way on this would be beneficial ..

Probably unlikely as the NSW Darren Smith still has 9 years to go on his suspension.  Arguably his 15 years was way over the top for the crime especially given more recent cases.

[Kihikihi Kid]

Just now, Chief Stipe said:

Probably unlikely as the NSW Darren Smith still has 9 years to go on his suspension.  Arguably his 15 years was way over the top for the crime especially given more recent cases.

You would hope so Chief

[Joe Bloggs]

I'm sure it's not the Aussie version KK, he's not allowed anywhere near a racecourse and he's poison anywhere near a racehorse, what he did? If I owned one of his that was tanked up on the shit he hit them with he'd have copped a 'visit' and I make no bones on that......his friends could fit into a red telephone box, even with social distancing.

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

I'm sure it's not the Aussie version KK, he's not allowed anywhere near a racecourse and he's poison anywhere near a racehorse, what he did? If I owned one of his that was tanked up on the shit he hit them with he'd have copped a 'visit' and I make no bones on that......his friends could fit into a red telephone box, even with social distancing.

So Peter Moody should have got life?

Or Mark Kavanagh and Danny O'Brien shouldn't have had their suspensions overturned by VCAT?

Bearing in mind that Smith got done retrospectively as in charged with Cobalt offences for horses that raced BEFORE threshold limits were imposed.

[Joe Bloggs]

It's only Monday morning, you might improve by Friday, you can do better surely.........Peter had a rogue/ignorant stable hand, he put his hand up, in a one off, this low life Smith had 10 cases before stewards leading up to the Testarythm case, that poor bugger had 6000mg in his system, the limit NSW racing bought in was 200mg, there are a lot more, so I urge anyone interested to just google Darren Smith disqualification and I congratulate Mr Murrihy for his stand.....we don't want cruel bastards in our industry, and anyone, anyone who sanctions behaviour like this is a sick prick....end of.

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

It's only Monday morning, you might improve by Friday, you can do better surely.........Peter had a rogue/ignorant stable hand, he put his hand up, in a one off, this low life Smith had 10 cases before stewards leading up to the Testarythm case, that poor bugger had 6000mg in his system, the limit NSW racing bought in was 200mg, there are a lot more, so I urge anyone interested to just google Darren Smith disqualification and I congratulate Mr Murrihy for his stand.....we don't want cruel bastards in our industry, and anyone, anyone who sanctions behaviour like this is a sick prick....end of.

You didn't answer the questions @Joe Bloggs if Smith got 15 years why did Moody, Kavanagh and O'Brien get less?  The latter two spending shit loads in court to overturn their penalties.  Moods just walked away.

As for 6000mg - one Vitamin B injection can do that!

The Tasmanian Trainer Rhodes got a 5 year ban after one of his horses tested 19,000mg!

[Joe Bloggs]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You didn't answer the questions @Joe Bloggs if Smith got 15 years why did Moody, Kavanagh and O'Brien get less?  The latter two spending shit loads in court to overturn their penalties.  Moods just walked away.

As for 6000mg - one Vitamin B injection can do that!

The Tasmanian Trainer Rhodes got a 5 year ban after one of his horses tested 19,000mg!

Google it, see how many administrations Smith was guilty of, he did it, he knowingly did it, the other two you mentioned had a rogue vet [they claim] and it's before the courts in a damages action, they claimed they had no idea what the vet was putting into their horses, and if you've ever given one a hemoplex iv and I bet you haven't , or any iron supplement you know what id does to a blood count, but we've been down this road before and I'm not going there, good on Ray Murrihy, and the luckiest bloke in racing is Sam Kavanagh, he broke down and pleaded guilty, his case is sad reading to boot...it all is......

[curious]

4 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Google it, see how many administrations Smith was guilty of, he did it, he knowingly did it, the other two you mentioned had a rogue vet [they claim] and it's before the courts in a damages action, they claimed they had no idea what the vet was putting into their horses, and if you've ever given one a hemoplex iv and I bet you haven't , or any iron supplement you know what id does to a blood count, but we've been down this road before and I'm not going there, good on Ray Murrihy, and the luckiest bloke in racing is Sam Kavanagh, he broke down and pleaded guilty, his case is sad reading to boot...it all is......

What's wrong with hemoplex? Has only a minimal amount of iron in it and is a mix of vitamins, minerals and amino acids all found in most feed mixes. Does have a trace of cobalt but probably not enough to trigger the threshold at recommended doses.

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

any iron supplement you know what id does to a blood count

Is there an Iron (Fe) threshold? 

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

and if you've ever given one a hemoplex iv and I bet you haven't ,

No I haven't.  Rather leave IV's for a qualified vet to do.  Even then seen one stuff it up in a bad way.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

12 minutes ago, curious said:

What's wrong with hemoplex? Has only a minimal amount of iron in it and is a mix of vitamins, minerals and amino acids all found in most feed mixes. Does have a trace of cobalt but probably not enough to trigger the threshold at recommended doses.

No not all, I mean any iron iv will effect a blood profile, to get a 6000mg read out it had to be intentional......

[Chief Stipe]

26 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

and if you've ever given one a hemoplex iv and I bet you haven't , or any iron supplement you know what id does to a blood count

If, as you have posted, "never taken a blood" how did you determine when to give a Hemoplex IV and what happens to blood counts?

[Chief Stipe]

@curious if a horse returns a high Cobalt level AND a normal red blood cell count what is the performance enhancing effect of the high Co?

[Joe Bloggs]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

If, as you have posted, "never taken a blood" how did you determine when to give a Hemoplex IV and what happens to blood counts?

I've never taken a blood, .......to ascertain how my horse was doing and to see if there's anything wrong that I hadn't picked up.......you'll find lots of old timers like moi that have/had the same MO.......many trainers rely on their vet, and a haematology report , that's their business and to each his own, I adhere to  ''if I can't tell there's something wrong with my horse I shouldn't have a licence''.......silly old fart aren't I?.....the feed bin/water bucket tells lots of stories, you just need to be able to read it.

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

'if I can't tell there's something wrong with my horse I shouldn't have a licence''

All well and good but there are modern techniques that make that job easier and less subjective.  For example if I felt my horse was fit and healthy but put in a shocker of a run I'd get its bloods done.

If I found something was wrong then I'd treat accordingly AND test again.

Horses are no different to people they can look happy and healthy but might only be operating at 90%.  10% off at the elite level and you are well down the track.

I wonder if PCR and RAT tests will become part of the elite equine toolkit in years to come.

[curious]

29 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

No not all, I mean any iron iv will effect a blood profile, to get a 6000mg read out it had to be intentional......

But there is iron in all feeds, even in grass and water. That may sustain normal levels. What are you talking about with a 6000mg read out? Of what? And what does that have to do with hemoplex?

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

Hemoplex 

Injectable supplementary source of iron, vitamins, minerals and amino acids for horses.

Composition Nicotinamide 100mg/mL, dl-Methionine 20mg/mL, L-Lysine HCl 20mg/mL, Glycine 20mg/mL, Iron Ammonium Citrate 15mg/mL, d-Panthenol 15mg/mL, Pyridoxine HCl 10mg/mL, Riboflavine Sodium Phosphate 10mg/mL, Choline Chloride 10mg/mL, Inositol 10mg/mL, Cobalt Gluconate 0.7mg/mL, Copper Gluconate 0.2mg/mL, Cyanocobalamin 150µg/mL, Biotin 10µg/mL.

[Joe Bloggs]

4 minutes ago, curious said:

But there is iron in all feeds, even in grass and water. That may sustain normal levels. What are you talking about with a 6000mg read out? Of what? And what does that have to do with hemoplex?

 

If you google Darren Smith the complete story is there, refer to the Testarythm example, that reading was why RNSW bought in the 200mg limit Curious, anything around the readings Smith and Kavanagh S had were toxic........if I remember correctly the readings Katrina and Terry recorded were similar and they copped a massive holiday also.

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, curious said:

What are you talking about with a 6000mg read out? Of what? And what does that have to do with hemoplex?

I think he means Cobalt levels.  Hemoplex has at least a couple of sources of Cobalt.  B12 being one of them.  

[Joe Bloggs]

I've pasted an exert from the hearing against Smith below, to avoid confusion....Thanks....

In O’Sullivan’s preliminary statement, he said the defence would not contest the scientific findings but challenged the notion that his client’s intention was to “enhance performance”.

Smith’s treatments of Iron Duke and Elaborate consisted of legal substances VAM and hemoplex, sourced from reputable supplier Garrards, in the form of a pre-mixed intravenous-drip. The record of treatments showed Smith would typically administer 30mls of each substance which equated to three times the manufacturer’s guideline of 10mls.

Smith conceded that increased dosages of both substances could have affected cobalt levels in a horse but claimed the administration of the concoction was solely to “assist in recovery” – the same defence used by Victorian trainers Mark Kavanagh and Danny O’Brien in 2015.

[Chief Stipe]

The stupid thing about Cobalt is there is no evidence it even works as a PED but heaps of evidence that too much does the opposite!

[curious]

OK. So, we are talking about cobalt, not iron and I think you mean 6000 mcgs, not mgs?

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

I've pasted an exert from the hearing against Smith below, to avoid confusion....Thanks....

In O’Sullivan’s preliminary statement, he said the defence would not contest the scientific findings but challenged the notion that his client’s intention was to “enhance performance”.

Smith’s treatments of Iron Duke and Elaborate consisted of legal substances VAM and hemoplex, sourced from reputable supplier Garrards, in the form of a pre-mixed intravenous-drip. The record of treatments showed Smith would typically administer 30mls of each substance which equated to three times the manufacturer’s guideline of 10mls.

Smith conceded that increased dosages of both substances could have affected cobalt levels in a horse but claimed the administration of the concoction was solely to “assist in recovery” – the same defence used by Victorian trainers Mark Kavanagh and Danny O’Brien in 2015.

So Smith didn't actually administer Cobalt Chloride intravenously?