Racing Data

[hesi]

Have a look at Cricinfo at the wealth of data available on a test match under stats and hawk eye

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18018/statistics/1119551/england-vs-india-3rd-test-ind-in-eng-2018

Why can't racing get up to speed with related data like this, pretty sure the technology is available via GPS

200m sectionals for each race

Therefore the ability to look, at last 600m, first 600m, mid race sectionals etc etc

GPS tracker for each horse, showing the track it took in the race

Therefore the ability to look at each horse, compare runs by adding in selected horses, get a total distance run.  Would take a lot of the guesswork out of how much further a horse runs when it draws wide or comes 8 wide on the turn etc etc

[Boxie]

Isn't Berri working on this for NZTR?  He must have it ready by now!

[hesi]

How is it that Cricinfo can do this and keep on improving it , and Racing stumbles along year after year.

I've followed cricket and Cricinfo for many years, and it is impressive the amount of data and presentation that is available through the technology that is being used

[Thomass]

It's already in NSW hesi...

22 tracks around NSW are hooked up to Swiss Precision Timing...GPS in saddle cloths I believe 

Get da app asap

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.RacingNSW.PuntersIntelApp&hl=en

[hesi]

Thanks, is it available on desktop

Punters Intel

Brought to you by Racing NSW, Punter’s Intel provides the ultimate tool to access race data and view dynamic 3D replays of NSW thoroughbred races. Performance data is collected 50 times per second via saddle cloth mounted transmitters and collated in the app to show race times, sectional times, distance travelled, top speed and positioning for every horse in the race. The app also allows users to view a 3D simulated replay of the race and control camera angles as well as select data to be viewed throughout the race.

 

[The Centaur]

1 hour ago, hesi said:

Thanks, is it available on desktop

Punters Intel

Brought to you by Racing NSW, Punter’s Intel provides the ultimate tool to access race data and view dynamic 3D replays of NSW thoroughbred races. Performance data is collected 50 times per second via saddle cloth mounted transmitters and collated in the app to show race times, sectional times, distance travelled, top speed and positioning for every horse in the race. The app also allows users to view a 3D simulated replay of the race and control camera angles as well as select data to be viewed throughout the race.

 

And if it was user pays do you think it would be a commercial success.?

And if it was viable other punters would say to themselves "I haven't the time to study all this info therefore am disadvantaged so won't bet."

A catch 22.

[hesi]

The more data you have on any sporting contest, the better you are able to analyse the performance of the participants.

With cricket, it seems like every time you watch, the presenters have more data available to analyse the performance of a side, batsmen or bowler.

As for who pays for it, who funds for Cricinfo, as it is free

[The Centaur]

22 minutes ago, hesi said:

The more data you have on any sporting contest, the better you are able to analyse the performance of the participants.

With cricket, it seems like every time you watch, the presenters have more data available to analyse the performance of a side, batsmen or bowler.

As for who pays for it, who funds for Cricinfo, as it is free

The point I am trying to make is those supplying the info often wallow in the fancy look of the data and ignore the persons time factor.

A good example is Des Coppins trainers interviews on the radio. Now who has the time to wait around or have playing the radio half the day. The interviews should be digitized and available on the internet. THe TV presenters instead of trying to pick winners should be  assembling  the sources of info and cutting racing fans time in searching for the information. Its all about time.

[Thomass]

21 minutes ago, The Centaur said:

The point I am trying to make is those supplying the info often wallow in the fancy look of the data and ignore the persons time factor.

A good example is Des Coppins trainers interviews on the radio. Now who has the time to wait around or have playing the radio half the day. The interviews should be digitized and available on the internet. THe TV presenters instead of trying to pick winners should be  assembling  the sources of info and cutting racing fans time in searching for the information. Its all about time.

Many of these interviews are linked on the NZTR site...left hand side under News

http://www.nzracing.co.nz/Home.aspx

[Rangatira]

is stridemaster along the lines of what you mean hesi

[hesi]

1 hour ago, Rangatira said:

is stridemaster along the lines of what you mean hesi

Yep along the lines of

[hesi]

3 hours ago, The Centaur said:

The point I am trying to make is those supplying the info often wallow in the fancy look of the data and ignore the persons time factor.

A good example is Des Coppins trainers interviews on the radio. Now who has the time to wait around or have playing the radio half the day. The interviews should be digitized and available on the internet. THe TV presenters instead of trying to pick winners should be  assembling  the sources of info and cutting racing fans time in searching for the information. Its all about time.

I think punters and those interested would quickly come to grips with what data was important and to be looked at on a regular basis, and what data was on a need to know basis.

I would find it very interesting, say in a 1200m race, looking at what distance each of the runners has actually covered, bearing in mind there are other factors to consider

[FeelTheFear]

Horse		Track		Date		T/C		Class		Placing		Weight		Time   Run		Dec. Time		Dist.		1st   Sec   Dist		1st Sec. Time		L600		L600 UP		Dist Trav.		Dec. Adj.		Time   Adj.		L/S		Extra Lgths
Winx		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		Open G1		1		57.0		01:22.39		82.4		1400		807.9		50.06		32.33		0.0081		1407.9		81.93		01:21.93		0.14		3.3
Invictus Prince		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		Open G1		2		59.0		01:22.72		82.7		1400		803.2		49.8		32.88		0.0073		1403.2		82.53		01:22.53		0.14		1.3
Kementari		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		Open G1		4		58.5		01:22.87		82.9		1400		806.8		50.1		32.82		0.0073		1406.8		82.47		01:22.47		0.14		2.8
Cabeza De Vaca		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		Open G1		5		59.0		01:22.91		82.9		1400		805.2		49.3		33.61		0.0052		1405.2		82.60		01:22.60		0.14		2.1
Unforgotten		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		Open G1		6		56.5		01:22.98		83.0		1400		803.0		50.1		32.85		0.0077		1403.0		82.80		01:22.80		0.14		1.2
Religify		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		Open G1		7		59.0		01:23.05		83.1		1400		804.7		49.5		33.55		0.0056		1404.7		82.77		01:22.77		0.14		1.9
Libran		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		Open G1		8		59.0		01:23.16		83.2		1400		805.1		50.4		32.77		0.0080		1405.1		82.86		01:22.86		0.14		2.1
Oriental Runner		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		Open G1		9		59.0		01:23.26		83.3		1400		803.1		49.2		34.02		0.0046		1403.1		83.08		01:23.08		0.14		1.3
Classic Uniform		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		Open G1		10		59.0		01:23.48		83.5		1400		806.3		49.6		33.87		0.0051		1406.3		83.11		01:23.11		0.14		2.6
Ace High		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		Open G1		11		58.5		01:23.69		83.7		1400		806.8		50.3		33.41		0.0066		1406.8		83.29		01:23.29		0.14		2.8

[FeelTheFear]

The app. didn't have info for 3rd placed D'Argento. 

Info. shows Horse, Track, Date, Track Condition (T/C), Class, Placing, Weight, Final Time (Time Run), Dec Time (time converted to decimal), Distance, 1st Sec Dist. (distance of 1st section of race), 1st Sec. Time (Time for 1st Sec. Dist), L600 (Last 600m time), L600 UP ( metres per sec. for last 600m greater or less than 1st section), Dist. Trav. (Actual distance travelled), Dec Adj. (Adjusted time in decimal), Time Adj. (time for 1400m), L/S (lengths per second for race), Extra Lgths (extra lengths covered)

[FeelTheFear]

These are my own calculated stats using info from the app.

 

[FeelTheFear]

Another race comparing the winner against 5th placed horse.

Horse		Track		Date		T/C		Class		Placing		Weight		Time Run		Dec.  Time		Dist.		1st   Sec   Dist		1st   Sec.   Time		L600		L600   UP		Dist Trav.		Dec. Adj.		Time Adj.		L/S		Extra Lgths
Butchboy		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		C3		1		57.5		01:35.77		95.8		1600		1007.6		60.5		35.24		0.0013		1607.6		95.32		01:35.32		0.14		3.1
Panzerfaust		Randwick		18 August 2018		G4		C3		5		53.0		01:36.08		96.1		1600		1012.8		61.0		35.05		0.0018		1612.8		95.32		01:35.32		0.14		5.3

Edited August 20, 2018 by FeelTheFear

[FeelTheFear]

Butchboy runs 1:35.77 over 1600m to win. Panzerfaust runs 1:36.08 to run 5th. Butchboy actually runs 1607.6m and Panzerfaust 1612.8m. That's 5.2m extra for Panzerfaust. Time adjustment to 1600m sees both horses run the same time, 1:35.32. Converted to lengths (Official time minus adjusted time divided by L/S), Butchboy runs a further 3.1 lengths and Panzerfaust 5.3 lengths. That is 2.2 lengths further for Panzerfaust against Butchboy. Butchboy won by 1.8 lengths. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by FeelTheFear

[hesi]

A lot of data to digest, but I think eventually it will become standard and as I have said, people will quickly sift through and take note of what is important.

Surely these GPS trackers are the way of the future in assessing a horses run, takes out a lot of the guesswork, particularly for wide draws, unlucky runners caught wide and coming very wide on the home turn

[FeelTheFear]

33 minutes ago, hesi said:

A lot of data to digest, but I think eventually it will become standard and as I have said, people will quickly sift through and take note of what is important.

Surely these GPS trackers are the way of the future in assessing a horses run, takes out a lot of the guesswork, particularly for wide draws, unlucky runners caught wide and coming very wide on the home turn

It's a guide to further assessment. I think it could be helpful with maiden races for instance

[Thomass]

2 hours ago, FeelTheFear said:

It's a guide to further assessment. I think it could be helpful with maiden races for instance

This is too easy now isn't it fairy?

Even bogan Bazz and Mardi grass can see first hand, without having to 'quantify' non existent mathematical formulas, on how to measure extra time and distance..

WINX covered 3.3L or 9 more metres

Next they'll be simulating races 1600 times to get a winner when all you need to do is read the GPS numbers!

[FeelTheFear]

Actually Mr Tosser that is my actual calculated data and not the app. Trust you to not read it and just take what you think confirms your point. It is my assessment as a starting point for further analysis. You really are struggling 

[mardigras]

There's nothing wrong with more data if it encourages participation. And some of the data may even be useful. A tool like this is worthless in NZ in my view, since the provision of it will cost more than any possible benefits from participation.

I expect that most people that use this data will be using it statistically to identify trends of the data and winners. Without getting into a big discussion on that, many approaches like that simply won't work long term unless the 'attribute' is linked to something that is actually more than just a statistical historical group based association.

If you look solely at NSW racing results, one might expect that the average win div in NSW races would have reduced. It hasn't this year compared to last year. And the % of horses that win paying $4 or less has also actually decreased, rather than increased. These might just be statistics, but use of these tools are not as yet having a noticeable effect to date on suddenly making winners more 'attractive' to punters generally.

As for the resident idiot, knowing extra distance doesn't mean punters will be able to find winners more easily. The results to date agree with that so I'm not surprised to see that you think it will now be so easy.

You'd only have to watch some European races where they are often quite happy to be 3, 4, 5 or 6 wide throughout (and around the bends). And actually want to be there.

[curious]

22 minutes ago, mardigras said:

As for the resident idiot, knowing extra distance doesn't mean punters will be able to find winners more easily. The results to date agree with that so I'm not surprised to see that you think it will now be so easy.

You'd only have to watch some European races where they are often quite happy to be 3, 4, 5 or 6 wide throughout (and around the bends). And actually want to be there.

Yeahh, well that's justThommo. He thinks it's all to do with Pi. Obviously (to most of us), and particularly the European jockeys you refer to, we also know about centrifugal force and inertia. This is way beyond Thommo's remedial math's classes though. That's clear because he keeps running round in smaller and smaller circles until he falls over again in the false belief that's the fastest way home.

Edited August 21, 2018 by curious

[mardigras]

10 minutes ago, curious said:

Yeahh, well that's justThommo. He thinks it's all to do with Pi. Obviously (to most of us), and particularly the European jockeys you refer to, we also know about centrifugal force and inertia. This is way beyond Thommo's remedial math's classes though. That's clear because he keeps running round in smaller and smaller circles until he falls over again in the false belief that's the fastest way home.

And I wonder how much he factors in for energy burned up by a horse racing directly behind a horse or with a horse close on its outside. Is that worth 0.5L or 3L? I'm not sure but he will no doubt have a factor to present when one of his post race selections needs an adjustment for it.

Things like inertia versus things that negatively affect inertia, as well as many other forms of energy loss a horse can experience depending on where it is positioned. He wouldn't have a clue. So generalises everything - and comes up with nothing. Except a receipt for another deposit into his betting account.

Edited August 21, 2018 by mardigras

[curious]

Yeahh, and I'm also not sure how he accounts for or measures the psychological and behavioural factors associated with the horse's response to being in tight quarters between horses or between a horse and the rail. Presumably, he will have some way of quantifying and adjusting for that as well. Hopefully, we'll get the low down on this before long in relation to one of his post race winning selections.