Chief Stipe

I think you are well off the mark with your "common business practice". That might be how you do business but you obviously have no evidence that TA do it.

You have evidence they do that?

@Blossom lady if EPO IS in widespread use why haven't the Racing Integrity Authorities commissioned research to determine: 1. If EPO makes a difference to performance; 2. How to detect human and or artificial EPO in equine blood. There are ample near retirement (or should be retired) standards that could be participants in the research. I'm also sure that there would be any number of under utilised training environments that could be used for the research. Yeah na! Better to take the dumb cop approach aka INCA and waste $14m. Actually thinking about it hand me $500k and I'll run the research.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Isn't DMSO legal to use as an anti-inflammatory but has a withholding period? Are you sure that they didn't just change the detection levels with the advent of more accurate technology? Hardly performance enhancing. INTERNATIONAL BACK Negative test results for DMSO 22 September 2008 by NZTR New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing (NZTR) advised on Monday that all samples requested for retrospective testing for dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO) on 11 September 2008 have been analysed as negative. NZTR directed that all swabs collected from the first three officially placed horses in all Group and Listed races together with Prestige Jumping Races since 1 April 2008 (and some random samples) would be tested for DMSO. DMSO is a prohibited substance when present at a level above 15 milligrams per litre in urine or 1.0 milligram per litre in plasma, as declared in clause 4 (c) in the Sixth Appendix of the Rules of Racing. A positive DMSO swab, which was above the allowed concentration, was taken from the horse Wonderland at the Franklin Trotting Club meeting on 15 August 2008. In light of this positive swab Harness Racing New Zealand (HRNZ) undertook to retrospectively test all urine swabs from all Group 1 races and all races offering $100,000 or more in stakes since 1 April 2008 for DMSO. NOTE: DMSO is administered to horses following exercise to aid muscle recovery, to provide support to the immune system and for respiratory system health. DMSO is also used to reduce the harm caused by pulling and/or wrenching muscles. The standard advice from veterinarians for the use of DMSO has been to administer 50 mils not less than 48 hours for detection time and 72 hours for withholding time prior to racing. DMSO appears to have a cumulative effect - over time, smaller doses of DMSO are required in order to produce the same effect.

If that is correct then what value is it 4 weeks from administration?

No perhaps about it. The writing was on the wall for many breeding centres for a long time. When the costs of breeding and racing a horse substantially increased for a number of wider economic reasons alongside the severe decline in real returns many part-time hobby breeders chucked it in. Long gone are the days when every farmer had a broodmare or two as a sideline interest. When that stopped studs in those regional/provincial areas found it too tough.

I see the usual suspects are pushing the EPO rumours again. The same ownership group aided and abetted by @Archie Butterfly. Grimson is one target. There is one slight difference this time and that is it has been suggested the authorities are retrospectively testing old samples using new technologies. A couple of flaws with that rumour. The stability of the alleged substances being looked for and the fact the technology has been available for many years.

Not so sure nowadays. They do take more work but are subject to the same stresses as a Thoroughbred. You can bring a Thoroughbred up quicker to race than a Standardbred.

I imagine even the locals aren't.

Interestingly when we talk of altruism - was it in Te Akau's best interests to support the Guineas remaining at Riccarton when their Matamata/Cambridge neighbours were trying to get them moved?

That move was happening regardless of any perceived encouragement from the mythical cartel.

FFS it appears you've never even played Monopoly. So what are your solutions for the NZ Racing industry?

Soft definition that only hides the real agenda. No wonder the country is in a mess for the same reason as the racing industry.

Socialism is by definition a monopoly. It is created and controlled by the State. Government fixes the price of everything including labour. Interesting how the only part of the NZ Racing industry that is successful is that which is exposed to the most market forces I.e. the breeding industry.

Again you miss the point. Get you head out of your text book theory. The racing industry works under a socialist construct. Everything is legislated to maintain a monopoly. It's about time the market constraints were removed. All the way from wagering to how race day licenses are allocated. The latter should be contestable.

Nothing to do with the number of horses requiring a start and their proximity to Taupo? Or could it be a product of the closing down of training centres in other regions and the diversion of funds away from tracks to "hospitality" monstrosities?

That's where you need to be smarter. Single action will never beat a collective.

So? We are talking about horse traders afterall.

Where's the evidence?

There is irony in that society is expecting us to embrace diversity but that doesn't extend to diversity in opinion. I do object however to the blaming of any one group for the demise/decline of the racing industry. That includes the mythical cartel. Every participant has had a hand in it. We have settled time and time again for mediocrity in administration, facilities for horses and the tracks they race on. We've all chased the stakes and taken them gleefully while ignoring the fundamentals. When time has come for collective action we've all acted individually and in self interest.

Really? You're a realist? I see the renegade @hesi has chosen to copy your post to his forum. To hell with copyright but interestingly he says you talk a lot of sense. Although from Hesi that's damp limp praise. So let's actually analyse what you have said. You started this thread by predicting doom and gloom for the Karaka sale. Book 1 surpassed the last four years in terms of average, median and clearance rate. The same seems to be happening with Book 2 which you described as a bloodbath. Those are the real facts. No wonder @hesi says you talk sense he being an acolyte of the left. So your answer is to tax more? Don't the current tax laws apply to everyone be they a big or small horse breeder? Nice! Try saying that to the narcissistic flea and see how long you can post for. Mmmm you suggest I can't see the forest for the trees. I've been consistently pointing out for nearly two decades that our major race tracks were stuffed. I also pointed out the white elephants in the room with recent reforms - the TAB restructure being smoke and mirrors, the AWT'S being a colossal waste of money and a future drain on the industry, the new RIB would be an inefficient behemoth and undermine integrity and confidence in the industry etc etc. At least part of the industry is still alive contrary to you assertion that it is dead. The industry needs horses therefore it needs breeders. Tax who? More costs on all breeders or are you going to just target a few of the wealthy or is that just the successful? They'll just pack up and head somewhere else with their yearlings. You want to distort the market with more controls and taxes. That's the very thing that has distorted our industry the most. The TABNZ monopoly has got us to where we are today. You obviously haven't thought this through at all. You want MORE sweepstake races?

Geezus you are a miserable bastard. I gather you have nothing positive to say about anything to do with NZ Racing. Your comments about this mysterious cartel don't hold up either with most of the ig Stud's have yearlings in book 2. None of the Stud's want their stallions down sold either.

Median and average up on the last four years for Book 1. Clearance rate no different. I guess any dilution from Book 2 was well received by vendor and buyer alike. Bargains in Book 2 for astute buyers.

I agree with @Brodie that training a Thoroughbred shouldn't be any harder than training a Standardbred. High performance nutrition principles are the same as is animal health. That's the biggest thing that amateurs don't get right. One advantage a Thoroughbred has over a Standardbred is the time required to train them. You dont do hours of mindless jogging with them going round and round in circles. You could have worked 4 gallopers in the time it takes to train a trotter. The biggest challenge for a harness trainer will be getting feedback on how the horse feels. Easier when you are driving or riding them yourself but Purdon will have to rely on feedback from Jockeys and track workers. Unfortunately there are very few good horseman are riding. The related challenge will be getting the riders to do what you want them to do. Purdon can judge pace to the half second the majority of Thoroughbred riders haven't got a clue.

One part of the supply chain. The industry can't function without it.