Chief Stipe

Are you backing up at today's price?

There has been some debate in another Topic (a little off Topic!) regarding Show Gate vs Winx. Being a Googlephile and a student of data and analysis I've spent some time in the last few days looking at Winx's ratings and performances. Her and Frankel raced during the same era. He was ranked 6 to 10 points ahead of Winx - she was the highest ranked mare or fully of her era and on one ranking of all time. Who do you rank as top? Winx or Frankel? Why?

The opposite has just happened in NZ. A High Court Judge has ruled that Vax mandates don't breach the Human Rights Act. I suspect they may appeal although I'm not sure that their argument and the legislation they used was the correct approach. It was a case taken by a group of nurses and teachers. Mandate to get Covid-19 vaccination not a breach of Bill of Rights, High Court judge rules Wellington district courts reporter A small group of doctors and teachers have lost an attempt to stop the mandate that requires them to be vaccinated by next Monday. The groups – which originally included midwives – took their case, claiming the mandate was a breach of the Bill of Rights, to the High Court on Monday. They said the mandate – which stipulates they must have had their first Covid-19 vaccination by November 15 – was inconsistent with their right to refuse medical treatments. They said the Covid-19 Public Health Response (Vaccinations) Act 2021 did not explicitly authorise the placing of a limit on their right to refuse to undergo any medical treatment. However, Justice Matthew Palmer disagreed. New Zealand Doctors Speaking Out on Science (NZDSOS) and its related group for teachers (NZTSOS) – along with a group of midwives – were seeking a judicial review of the mandate order. In court, their lawyers told the judge that they should not be called on to have what amounted to an invasive procedure. They wanted more consultation on the mandate.Lawyer Warren Pyke submitted that the mandate coerces, directly and derivatively, a person who did not want to be vaccinated, into being vaccinated. He said those they represent felt coerced into participating in a medical or scientific experiment without their consent on the basis of the status of the vaccine. Under the mandate, if they have not had their first vaccination by Monday, they will not be able to go to work on Tuesday. Crown lawyer Daniel Perkins had told the court there was a practical cost to not having the vaccination, but it did not limit their right not to get it. There was a choice, Perkins said: to work in their vocation, they had to accept the treatment, but if they did not, they then accepted they could lose their job. NZDSOS’s members include 79 doctors, 48 dentists and 26 pharmacists while NZTSOS’s members are teachers, principals and members of boards of trustees. There were initially four midwives involved in the case. Justice Palmer said if a limit was reasonable, prescribed by law, and demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society under section 5, it was consistent with the Bill of Rights. He dismissed their application and said mandatory vaccination fell within the scope of the Bill of Rights. He also granted anonymisation of the midwives’ names. “It is quite clear that the issue of vaccination against Covid-19 has become a socially divisive issue in New Zealand, arousing strongly expressed views on both sides,” he said “Sadly, the applicants’ concerns about bullying, harassment, and vilification of themselves and their family members may have foundation.“ The principal medico-legal advisor at medical professional indemnity provider Medicus, Dr Peter Robinson, welcomed the vaccine mandate recently brought into law. He said that a “no jab, no job” mandate was not a human rights violation. “While it may seem tough, a healthcare vaccine mandate just makes sense,” Robinson said. “The whole idea of a vaccination programme is to keep communities safe – it doesn’t work if those working closely with some of our most medically vulnerable could potentially pass on a deadly virus.” From January 1, 2022, all healthcare practitioners, including those in non-clinical roles, will need to be fully vaccinated as part of their terms of employment.

It is irrelevant because you have no idea whether changes in her training regime would have given different results or better performances. Therefore we can only compare recorded performances. As have thousands of other horses in the last decade or more. However in terms of longevity and sustained high level performance Winx has left everyone of those horses well behind. Just as she would have left Show Gate in her wake in my opinion. Winx won her first race as a 2 yr old June 2014 and her last race as a 7 yr old in April 2019. Apart from her 2 yr old starts every race she started in was a Grp race. Her last 33 wins in a row were all in Grp races. She beat her rivals by an average of 3.6 lengths often easing down or going away from them. She could also throw in a 10.8 second 200m sectional at the end of 2000m.

Sure you can post what you want. You just did. I pointed out that your supposition doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. You haven't actually stated anything black and white.

Who cares. Like most things though those that "knew" can't be really certain they did.

Your supposition doesn't hold up to scrutiny based on facts. Anyway according to @Brodie they never left.

VE. Wouldn't matter if the track was heavy, soft or good.

I disagree. Sure later in Winx's career many horses avoided her but she won all her races with ease. As for Frankel - happy to do a comparison but I suspect the analysis will have Winx out on top by a length at least.

Your analogy is flawed aside from the fact you are comparing a standardbred with a thoroughbred. The only difference between today's pacers and those of Cardigan Bay's era is that they can run fast sectionals one after the other. The increase in top speed has been minimal. WINX could run fast sectionals back to back as well. However the times she broke race records are only one factor in assessing her superiority. Not only did she break decades long race records but also record acheivements in terms of races won in a season and weight carried. For example she was the first horse since 1990 to win the Epsom and Doncaster in the same season carrying I think a record weight of 56.6kg for a mare in the Doncaster. The horse to hold that record previously was Super Impose. So your analogy is flawed simply because WINX broke records that had stood for 25 years or more - not just time records. Records held by horses such as Might and Power, Kingston Town, Super Impose and others that were the most outstanding horses of a generation.

So you don't have any alternatives.

Winx - 4 Cox Plates. Race record knocking off Might And Power. Equalled Kingston Towns record of three straight and then for good measure won a fourth. Greatest winning margin of 8 lengths. I'd have taken your money anytime Joe simply because you seem to be driven by emotion rather than analysis.

Sadly Reefton you are succumbing to the tactic of ad hominem attacks rather than facts and analysis. The way Show Gate was treated is irrelevant. On the basis of individual performances over individual distances against higher quality fields she wouldnt have beaten either Winx or Verry Elleegant. Was Show Gate more durable? Perhaps a case could be argued for that however what you forget is that for Winx and Verry Elleegant to win at the level they have they are also trained hard. To compete in Sydney or Melbourne you need to be at 95%+ every start.

Industry Social media erupts over Golden Eagle prizemoney increase By Racenet 03:04pm • 10 November 2021 Comments It's not often a $500,000 prizemoney increase sparks as much reaction as this. News yesterday that Racing NSW is increasing the Golden Eagle prizemoney to $8m – making it the second richest race in the nation behind The Everest ($15m) – worked social media users into a muck lather. Reactions to the announcement were divided but there was no shortage of people questioning whether it was the best way to spend the substantial sum of money. While many lauded the move as another significant boost for racing, others suggested the only motivation for the decision was to relegate the Melbourne Cup ($7.75m) further down the pecking order. The divide between Racing NSW and Racing Victoria has never been greater and the announcement did little to deescalate rising tensions between the two major racing jurisdictions. Here are just some of the reactions on social media

Star jockey left bloodied after luncheon fight Brett Prebble. Pic – Getty. By Racenet 12:42pm • 10 November 2021 Champion jockey Brett Prebble has been left bloodied after a scuffle broke out at well known restaurant Rubira’s in Port Melbourne on Monday. A witness who was at the restaurant said, “Prebble got into a fight with a mate of his and it did certainly get a bit heated, Prebble has fallen over and hit his head. “There was really nothing too much in it apart from a couple of blokes getting too enthusiastic and unfortunately it got out of order, there was a fair bit of blood though.” Prebble was part of the birthday party of former AFL coach Ross Lyon which was held at the venue for a small but eclectic group but the majority of the party, including Lyon were reportedly outside at the time of the incident. Reportedly present at the party were others including well known racehorse owner Nick Williams, former AFL player Michael Gardiner and TV star Scott Cam. Other witnesses claimed 2012 Melbourne Cup winner Prebble was left with blood on his shirt after he was cut during the dispute, however Lyon and the others were not involved. It is believed the incident took place between Prebble and a long-time associate and friend. A witness to the incident said the two men were soon back sitting next to each other in “joviality” and they enjoyed each other’s company for the next several hours however the bloodied Prebble was in the outside section of the venue.

No recreational drugs Joe. Show Gate wouldn't have got within cooee of Winx. I might have given Show Gate some points for versatility but Verry Elleegant now holds that mantle by a country mile or two.

Pot Kettle. I assure you my mind is not locked into the status quo. Far from it however it is clearly evident you have no alternative to the status quo. Therefore as you assert debate is futile because you haven't stated anything.

There we go throwing around terms you don't really understand or have no meaning. Your alternative is?

I think she would have been just as good - probably better. WINX could run time and the class of opposition she faced was light years ahead of Showgates era.

Interesting that the NZ Trotting Cup has had more publicity than Riccarton so far this week. Seems without the party at Riccarton there is no interest.

Didn't that start under Lange's Labour Government?

None of your business.

Don't be so precious let alone assume that anyone cares. You outed yourself many times.

The All Stars generally peak for the money days. Aim of every good stable.