Chief Stipe

How long has this saga being going on for? 6 years or more? She deserves at least a medal for hanging in there.

I remembered the first sporting positive for darbepoetin alfa (Aranesp). It was at the 2002 Winter Olympics. So one year after Aranesp being approved as a human medication. Cross-country skiers Larisa Lazutina and Johan Muhlegg both Gold Medallists tested positive to darbepoetin alfa (Aranesp) at the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City 2002. Three skiers returned positives to Aranesp at those games - the third was Olga Danilova. https://www.espn.com/olympics/news/story?id=1746641

You clearly haven't been reading my posts on the subject. I find it bizarre that a horse trainer would come onto a public forum and admit to using a specific EPO on their horses sometime between 2001 and 2010. As for you assertion that "anti-doping tests weren't picking it up" that may be so for your alleged activity. However there was a test available and anti-doping tests WERE picking up the specific type of EPO you refer to. If my memory serves me correctly the first darbepoetin alfa (Aranesp) positive in sport was returned in 2002. WADA was testing for it soon after it first came on the market. Which wasn't all that hard to do as it is just another form of rHuEPO. Now if by inference you assertion is that the NZ Racing jurisdiction wasn't testing for it when they could then that may well have been the case. On that I can't comment because I don't know. With regard to your question "why did we not make our horses sick?" - were you sure that the product you were using was actually Aranesp? What UI were you administering? If you look at the Kentucky/Scollay commissioned research ALL those treated with EPO exhibited visible signs of adverse reactions. You probably considered similar reactions in your horses as localised and "just the jab". So in summary - yes Aranesp is detectable and it was being tested for soon after it come onto the market

Should really be a separate thread on Kate. So if you don't mind I'll create one.

Speaking of attacks on the industry...... I see dear old Archie Butterfly hasn't responded to my challenge. That's evidence in itself that his allegations have no substance. @Archie Butterfly if you won't respond here why don't you give me access to respond on your website? Good Journalism is about balance unless of course your publication is nothing more than an online muck rucking tabloid of no substance. I doubt that William Jones at Black Horse will be publishing anymore of your crap!

You're welcome. I do find it amusing that those who preach "positivvviddy" are willing to allow the attacks on the Harness Industry without evidence. I guess that's why they do it behind closed doors.

I agree with your post. I've said that for years. The horse is the only thing that differentiates us from any other sport or form of entertainment. Even wagering/punting is no longer exclusive to horse racing. Why we continue to think that we can compete or should compete with the hospitality industry amazes me. I remember years and years of enjoyable on course experiences where there was only two or three beers on tap and one type of gin, whiskey and rum. Plus the standard drinks for the kids. Food - nothing fancy. Something to grab and eat on the run as you went from parade ring to the grandstand or your favourite possie to watch the races. Percy "Pie" Hurren only ever had two types of pies available at the Hoki races - mince or steak and sausage rolls. No myriad of differentiated pie flavourings. The Stapleton Sisters ran the sit down public lunch room where everyone got the same fare - a plate of one cream cupcake, one lamington, and a club sandwich. Coffee or tea from a big urn. I digress..... The focus for the entire industry should go back to what differentiates it from every other option available today. The horse! Start with the tracks, then the handicapping, then the rider skills...keep more horses in the game which means more people involved. Stakes will come as will attendance. Remember the days when everyone either had a share in a horse or knew someone who did? Accessibility was the key. Remember when you could take your kids down to the stables and show them a horse and ask the trainer politely if they would let them pat one? Sure OSH and drug contamination rules have stymied that but why can't you have a couple of tame ponies or proper horses that people can go and actually see and touch? Smell the damn things and their dung. Stop focusing on "The Party" where you can't compete week in week out - focus on the damn horse!!!!

I'm a tad reluctant to engage in this line of discussion as it doesn't achieve anything. However as many of you probably realise by now my judgement is questioned all the time and I take it on the chin or throw a decent punch back. If I take offence it isn't for long but it never results in censorship or banning. No one has been banned from BOAY and moderation is only engaged for extreme personal or offensive abuse. Such abuse if extreme is hidden and if less so is sent to The Vent. Contrary to many allegations I've never outed anyone online. It still amazes me how some let their ego's reveal so much about themselves online that you would have to be living in a cave not to know who they are i.e. they out themselves. Yet they are the one's who are the most critical of others and often the most abusive and demand anonymity.

So there were no mixers for the spirits? Did the reason why you were there complain? As in your horse?

Yet your recent gripe when you attended a meeting was that they didn't have a big enough selection of beer?

Actually I'm not going to play this game @Blossom lady. Aranesp was first approved for human use in 2001 and large scale production began. There were anti-doping tests available for it soon after. So you only had a few years at most to benefit from it. Assuming of course that you administered the right amount to achieve an improvement in performance and didn't make your horses sick. In the 20 years since testing technology has advanced considerably and nowadays you wouldn't have a shit show in hell of getting away with using it or any rHuEPO.

How long ago was that?

Or this one.... https://youtu.be/odEaPG206Qw

Not sure but it might have been in this one....

Yep as long as you don't go off piste......oh....you have already!

Then where does the Club get the dosh from? Sponsorship? That would blow Guerin's tax expense idea out of the water because with major sponsors the slot holders couldn't argue that they had a marketing cost. The concept has merits as it has proven in other jurisdictions but if the industry has to put money in I can't see how it will get a return. Hopefully it doesn't go down the Karaka Millions path where NZTR invests significant amounts each year.

Forbs.....although this is off the current topic you must admit that young Ben is getting better with time and experience. Nice to see him training a winner in his own right.

Are they? Where did you see that?

No it actually wasn't a quiz question. It is the mare I owned a share in.

Only the best get a 30 yard handicap!

If The Race is worth $900k and the slot holders put up $750k where does the remaining $150k come from? I see Mick Guerin has added Tax Advisor to his CV. He was saying on Box Seat that the slot holders can claim a third of their $75k back as a tax expense!!! Doesn't sound right to me!