Chief Stipe

24 horses in training according to NZTR.

In that regard I don't think the 0800 Snitch line is a good thing. If people are confident in the veracity of their allegations why not be open about it? Why do they feel they can't talk directly to NZTR? Have they talked directly to NZTR and if so what action did NZTR take? I realise they are really busy at the moment managing their out of control IT project - the Single System of Truth costing $2.4m and growing.

I should clarify that - it was in relation to what happened when he went broke around 2012. Will correct what I wrote. However the same rumours running the rounds now were prevalent then. I'll make it clear they are just rumours with no substantive evidence as yet. The point I was trying to make was what have NZTR been doing? Surely in light of the previous episode: They would have had doubts about granting a license; If they had granted a license then wouldn't they be keeping a close eye on the stable. They have the powers don't they?

Which raises the question - Given NZTR proposed new licensing rules, which have been signalled for some time, why was Harris allowed to re-license? Was there a probationary period? T's & C's and monitoring put in place as a condition of the license? The existing rules are broad enough to allow that. Which leads to another question - why hasn't NZTR dealt with the alleged issue under its licensing power? Are they toothless? Doesn't NZTR have a National Vet and access to experienced horsemen directly or indirectly in their employ? Or is it easier to pass it off to the industry Police - the RIB? Why the RIB? If it is as bad as the rumours say then why wasn't MPI engaged? NZTR have been quick to use the Animal Welfare Act and bow to MPI but when a problem arises they don't engage them? Now the rumours may or may not be true - I guess we will find out in due course after RIB have completed their investigation. Which will take an age and will be under a cloak in the first instance. Fair enough everyone is entitled to a fair investigation. But putting the chance that there has been embellishment and exaggeration of the problem why is it that it has taken this long for action to be taken? I understand that other license holders were "too scared" to say anything. What is the cause of that reticence?

LOL I'll certainly be watching the race with a bit more interest!

Yeah everyone wants a Group 1.

On stats she is quicker than the other mare. Will be an interesting first quarter. I'm Off N Gone will need to step out the best it ever has and probably will get parked. Likewise if the other mare misses it a smidge then it'll need luck.

Good luck. She is on fire as well although not as race hard. Will she hand up to I'm Off N Gone?

I might move some of these posts to a separate thread. It was hijacked when the intent was to wish the NZ team(s) all the best in the big Group 1's at Melton this Friday and Saturday night. I thought I'm Off N Gone's last start performance was good one.

I think he has fallen down a conspiracy rabbit hole.

Hang on a minute @the galah you may not have had a direct stab at the Dunn's but you did have a go at Woodham choosing Braun. @Gammalite and I were facetiously commenting on the fact that two horses left Woodend and improved lengths in OZ.

But you can determine who cheats and who makes a mistake?

Bute is one of the most used anti-inflammatories in any stable. It isn't a prohibited substance except for raceday and has a withholding period. There are many many cases of mistakes with withholding times and or cross contamination. So Braun has had one mistake with bute in nearly 20 years? He had one Cobalt threshold case. I'm not going to relitigate the Cobalt saga. It's been a stuff up all round.

O'Sullivan and the trough. Te Akau was contaminated hay with poppies.

So @the galah what dope is Tony Herlihy currently using? Afterall he has a UDR better than the Dunn's at the moment.

Sorry according to some exclusive moral compass you can determine who made a mistake and who cheated?

He had a positive in 2007 - not sure what to. A positive to Bute in 2014. Name a major trainer that hasn't had one of those. 2017 - Cobalt one horse went over the threshold - quite frankly that isn't worth mentioning. The Feds got that all so very wrong in both codes. In 2018 I think it was he got fined for calling Adam Hamilton "a dirty grub". His record is better than most trainers and worse than a few.

He has made it quite clear who he is. Can't help himself as he is blinded by his crusade. The article that he posted from the Black Horse Newsletter I admit I did weep when reading. Tears of laughter! 🤣 It is absolute bollocks! When I get time I'll pull it to shreds. I wouldn't be surprised if it initiates some law suits.

@Joe Bloggs and @the galah if you want a better example of how it is easy to dupe large numbers of people and sell them snakeoil that doesn't work...... The Pzifer Vaccine for Covid-19.

But there is no evidence that EPO caused those deaths or in fact is performance enhancing. In my opinion it is shady operators taking advantage of the clearly evident advantages in the human athlete e.g. the Lance Armstrong Marketing Effect. The circulatory physiology of an equine is significantly different to that of a human. If you look at the science if EPO does cause a spike in red blood cell count it wouldn't last long certainly not long enough to increase horse performance. There is evidence that it would do the opposite I.e. cause anaemia. Media reports. But where is the evidence that EPO was performance enhancing? No there are numerous examples of how people are duped. You only have to look at the cosmetic anti-aging industry. Or the Cobalt saga. It doesn't actually do what it is supposed to do. Too much reduces horse performance because it is toxic. Initially the Feds were measuring the wrong type of Cobalt! The latest product a harness trainer has been charged with using as a PED is called BioBleeder. It's extract of common garden variety Dandelion! I can see how the use of Clenbuterol could help a horse as it has a documented proven therapeutic benefit. Navarro and co did exactly what Armstrong did manipulated the testing regime. Getting back to EPO Armstrong didn't return a positive only because he was never tested WHEN he had it in his system. He had a team of people helping him avoid testing when he did.

Not suggesting it - it's a fact. Brauns record doesn't tell me anything. Name one leading trainer in either horse code that hasn't returned a positive to something in their career?

UPDATED: Covid mandate forced shock training split Luke Currie and Trainer Grant Williams with Arcadia Queen after winning the Mackinnon Stakes at Flemington. Picture: Scott Barbour—Racing Photos via Getty Images. By Adam Dobbin 02:02pm • 01 February 2022 28 Comments West Australia’s most celebrated training partnership of Grant and Alana Williams has been dissolved due to the state’s looming vaccination mandate. From Tuesday, Grant Williams will be the sole trainer for the powerhouse stable, with it understood that Alana Williams’ Covid-19 vaccination stance has precluded her from maintaining any official involvement on race day or at their Karnup training base. Late last year, Racing and Wagering Western Australia (RWWA) announced that it was introducing a state-wide mandate for the three racing codes which would require participants to be double vaccinated for Covid-19 from Saturday, February 5. The decision sent shockwaves through the industry with the highest profile casualty leading WA hoop William Pike who has enjoyed immense success for the 11-time group 1 winning Grant and Alana Williams stable. Pike recently announced that as a result of the mandate he was moving to Sydney to continue his riding career given his much publicised vaccination position. As a team, the husband and wife training duo notched up 529 wins from 2054 starts, including 11 Group 1s, 11 Group 2s and 23 Group 3s. Their biggest victory came via Arcadia Queen in the Group 1 Mackinnon Stakes at Flemington in 2020, while this season they scooped all three group 1 races in Perth, including the Railway Stakes, Winterbottom Stakes and Kingston Town Classic. Thoroughbred racing isn’t the only code affected by the looming WA vaccination mandate with leading greyhound trainer Dave Hobby poised to hang up the collar and lead following a distinguished career spanning four decades. The multiple premiership winning trainer has been a dominant force in WA greyhound racing winning just about every big race on the calendar. But after citing medical reasons for his decision not to be vaccinated, Hobby is set to walk away from the sport this weekend, leaving a significant void in the WA training ranks. Alana Williams was contacted for comment for this story.

A prominent owner on another channel has openly accused the Dunn's of doping by strong inference. Hence @Gammalite and my facetious comments about the two mares racing on Saturday having improved lengths AFTER leaving the Woodend Beach.

I don't believe much has changed nor are they truly proactive or transparent enough. It doesn't appear the new regime or leadership has changed much at all. INCA has returned ZIP. Kerr's misdemeanour was something better systems at HRNZ should have caught if not prevented. So who are we left with - Alford. Meanwhile we await charges for Wigg and Jones. How long is that going to take? Now if they really wanted to send a message why not publicly say - "In light of the form improvement of Stella's Delight the RIB is reviewing betting records and has taken blood, urine and hair samples. We wish to be clear that there is no evidence of any wrongdoing to substantiate any of the claims made on social media. Results will be published in 14 days." Statement from HRNZ - "We wish to advise licensed stakeholders that the unsubstantiated speculation and rumour mongering does not benefit Harness Racing. We are in constant communication with the RIB and have trust in their integrity monitoring systems." Now that's proactive and positive. The current approach isn't either.