Chief Stipe

Some odd things with the track rating movements. Rail still out 11m. Remember the last meeting? RACE DAY Weather: Overcast Track: Dead 5 Rail: Out 11m | 7mm Rain Overnight Weather and Track last updated at 6.48am Thursday 11 March Wednesday afternoon Weather: Raining Track: Good 3 Rail: Out 11m Weather and Track last updated at 3.25pm Wednesday 10 March Wednesday afternoon Weather: Drizzling Track: Dead 4 Rail: Out 11m Weather and Track last updated at 2.29pm Wednesday 10 March Withdrawal morning Weather: Fine Track: Dead 4 Rail: Out 11m | Irrigating 8mm tonight Weather and Track last updated at 8.56am Tuesday 9 March Riccarton Park track preview Nomination Afternoon Weather: Fine Track: Dead 4 Rail: Out 11m | Irrigating 8mm tonight Weather and Track last updated at 3.50pm Monday 8 March Nomination Morning Weather: Fine Track: Dead 4 Rail: Out 11m Weather and Track last updated at 9.18am Monday 8 March

Obvious that this isn't about horse welfare and BLM but about punting. So you label the top 20 Jockey's in Australia CHEATS too?

It's called staying in business. I doubt there is any stable in New Zealand making a profit from their training operations without selling.

Didn't stop a local trainer from selling one of his best young ones.

It happens. He looks a happier horse and his condition looks better. As I've said before he always looked capable of winning a race or two. He wasn't so far away that some minor changes be it gear, feed, change in training miles or environment would have been enough to make a difference. It might have been as simple has keeping him a bit fresher and not doing the traditional boring jogging miles day after day. Some trainers tend to not individualise their training and feeding regimes enough. The top stables will analyse bloods and determine what is wrong. For example today I read an article that detailed how you can determine if the training you are giving a horse is not optimal by checking the ratios of certain blood components.

Oh dear. Here come the conspiracy theories!

You should hear what he calls Hugh Bowman!

At this rate the Spitfire will be Cup class by November!

Yes and it isn't going to change while the rank and file bitch about whip infringements and environmental substance contamination pointing the bone at each other. Meanwhile the same old same old keeps happening. For example has anyone in the industry seen ANY benefit yet from NZTR's $2 million "investment" in a new computer system? Has there been any significant increase in stakes this year at the level where it counts i.e. not at the Grp level? I don't expect the rank and file to see much benefit from the supposed "success" of the TAB's restructure. Afterall they are essentially in administration (reporting to the DIA) and have find a spare $35 million shortly to stay solvent. That day of reckoning is fast approaching.

Speaking of whips. Anyone want to count the number of strikes in this video?

I'm closing this Topic. I personally find it distasteful that you would criticise this statue Thomarse. Not many people will know but Bonecrusher after his death was smuggled into Ellerslie and buried where he now lies. That was to avoid Auckland City Council regulations. From what was described to me it was a well co-ordinated effort of subterfuge between the Ellerslie Club, a digger driver and the Mitchell family. The Mitchell family paid for the statue - it wasn't cheap. It was their choice to have it riderless and I can understand why. The statue is to celebrate a great horse - he has passed on and leaves behind his riders. The saddle and bridle depict him as a racehorse. I guess some of us can't see that symbolism. His purchaser and owner Peter Mitchell gave Red a fantastic retirement. In tragic fashion Peter passed away not long after Bonecrusher. As the commentator said "Bonecrusher races into equine immortality."

So you ignore all the other instances of this "cheating" and just focus on Bosson?

I realise the science is beyond you Thomarse and that you are blinded by envy, hypocrisy and an anti-racing agenda BUT there were no "shots of morphine." The chemical analysis proved that. As for the Wallace/Cooksley positive. Two of the chemicals identified are components of chocolate. Perhaps someone spilt their Mocha. With environmental contamination that is all it would take. However as I have repeatedly stated and which you repeatedly ignore because it doesn't fit with your preconceived agenda is that environmental contamination is a big issue and will only get bigger. It needs to be addressed otherwise we will see more and more examples. If we follow your narrative Thomarse then Anne Browne was cheating too!

You don't actually give a shyte about horse pain - it is clear that your entire focus is on being supposedly cheated out of your punting! Not that you gave us any indication of your selections for the race PRIOR to it running. There is no evidence that it made a difference in the first two placing's.

??? Can you translate "wakes her up even more to go faster while slowing"? She didn't go faster she maintained the momentum she started from the 800m PRIOR to being whipped. The strikes didn't make her go faster they MAY have kept her going over the last 150m but they certainly didn't make her go faster! That has always been a problem with your punting blue print where you don't understand the concept of ability/performance. Oh I see you just cherry pick whatever supports your narrative. Mmmmm excellent scientific approach. Then data has never been your strong point has it? So the Professor's evidence based research reviewing data from a set of races has not validity because the researcher, in your opinion, "has no racing experience." So when it suits we throw out the evidence based research presumably following a scientific methodology and accept that from a Punting Tipster. Makes sense - yeah na! While we are discussing the Professor shall we discuss some of the flaws in his "whipping causes pain similar to humans" research? There are a number of flaws in his methodology. Basically his research focused on counting the number of nerve endings in the epidermal layers of a horse vs a human. Low and behold he found they were similar in number. So he draw the conclusion if you hit a human with a whip it causes pain then ipso facto it must also hurt a horse to the same level. Now that theory may well be right when both a human and a horse are at rest. But did he test his theory on high performance athletes under physiological stress? NO he didn't. Not that you would understand as I have serious doubts about your understanding of the racehorse physiology but do you know what happens when a horse is racing? It is a bit like a human athlete where all body processes are focused on the core systems i.e. the heart, lungs and muscles. It goes even further with a horse where they have the capability to divert blood away from peripheral systems entirely to the core. Hence why we see frequent problems with EIPH (lung bleeds). Do you think that this process might change the horses ability to feel pain exerted on peripheral surfaces? Then it is likely to be fiction. BTW I can only count 2 maybe 3 welts - they could actually just be ruffled hair but that aside where are the other 20?

That is the issue full stop. The "cradle to the grave" policy is not sustainable no matter which way you cut it. The conundrum is to have a sustainable racing industry you need to breed more dogs than can be rehomed.

A similar thing is happening with the "cradle to the grave" supposed welfare issue. Are horses really that different to other types of animal agriculture? How many so called animal activists have a cat or a dog? I often point out to those types when debating the issue that they are hypocrites. Their pets are natural born meat eaters and their cats spend all night hunting. 25% of carbon emissions from animal agriculture are generated by the pet food industry! Yes it is easier to become attached to a race horse than a dairy cow, although I do know some that have named their cows, but why does a race horse owner have to be responsible for a slow horse for 30 years? Mind you there is a great deal of hypocrisy within the industry too. Most champions earn a lifetime reprieve from death row. The horse racing industry is lucky in one respect. Most of the general public are scared of horses and can't relate to them. Whereas most love those little cuddly puppies and the loyal dog.

Yep and the general public are not watching let alone counting. In my opinion the industry itself is making an issue when there isn't one. If they spent more time promoting the positives of the industry instead of kowtowing to a very very small minority the industry would be better off. The biggest issue for NZ racing is losing punting revenue not because people are protesting through their punting pockets about whips but because they are offered better wagering products elsewhere.

In Thomarse's case he seems more worried about his punt and Opie beating him by "cheating"!

Ok I'll rephrase my question - where is the evidence that this is becoming a "big issue" with the general public?

Where is the evidence of this "defening noise of protest"?