Chief Stipe

Making the limit Zero won't change the number of deaths on the road greatly. Just changes the cause label. I guess Gammalite you are in the Covid-19 lock everyone down camp?

Ok I'd better sell my shares in the Golden Mile and the Yaldy.

As of this morning Saville was still employed on the website About Us - Leadership Team at TAB NZ. Maybe he is job sharing until his replacement arrives? Or are we being subjected to the oldest vendor con in the book - hire the "friendly" guy on the Exec of the company that became your biggest customer and leave him in the hen house?

Speaking of contacting the TAB - when does Saville move on?

No instead you have other vehicles coming from the opposite direction passing you with as little as a metre to spare i.e. a closing speed of 200km/hr and not even a sulky width of separation! I'm not happy with the limit as it is glaringly at odds with the driving a vehicle and so we get the ridiculous situation of where Chris Johnson drives a full horse float to the races legally but can't ride! Why not make it the same? Also have the lower limit for restricted drivers the same for Junior harness drivers. I think all RIU and JCA staff should be subjected to the same tests on raceday as we wouldn't want their judgment impaired would we?

It's not illegal - there is not law or regulation stopping the TAB from minimising their risk. At the end of the day they have a legislated responsibility to maximise profits for the racing industry (and now sports). Part of that process is to manage risk. The issue in my opinion is that the true market price is not transparent at all times. They shouldn't be able to lay off their bets in such a way that the punter can't see that reflected in the price while the tote is still open. From time to time in a pub agency I've watched the odds on the screen right up to closing and then seen the prices change substantially after the horses have raced 800m! There is no technical reason why the odds are not updated and displayed in real time. Imagine the uproar if the share market operated like that! Is it fair? No as the TAB can manipulate market information. It isn't efficient either. As I keep saying the key issue in this case is that the bet the BGP got was not available to the market at a premium price. The TAB covered their risk by gouging their loyal customers late in the market under the cloak of odds update delay! In my opinion there should be some rules legislated that protect the customer. For example in Australia there are minimum bets that the Operators MUST accept. Here the TAB don't have to accept any bet and can restrict some punters. In my opinion that is wrong.

Laying off onto the tote isn't illegal as such. I think it is dodgy that the average punter can't see that it is has happened until AFTER the tote has closed. They explain that away by saying it takes time to balance the books. There is not reason why it can't be done in real time. Where it is a bit dodgy in this case and an allegation of fraud may have some substance is that the Fixed Odds Quinella book only had ONE punter in it and it wasn't available to anyone else THEN they liability was played in the tote Quinella pool late. I've heard stories of this type of "favoured" betting offers occurring before but not as public as this one. One industry person who has far more contacts than I'll ever have is adamant that an investigation should be undertaken of previous transactions.

The issue I have is why does it need to be different than the Vehicle driving limit? Seems daft that you can legally drive a horse float full of horses on the open road at 100km/h to the races but once you get there not sit in a sulky and drive a horse. Aren't trainers under the same rules as well? That is if they have horses in their care at the races they are also subject to limits on their alcohol intake.

I have my doubts that it is legal. Especially when they are trying to use legislative means to enforce anti-competitive ways to force local punters to punt with them rather than other providers.

Your comparison is very weak. The banking industry is heavily regulated AND highly competitive. You will find that those deals you refer to would only differ by small margins. You are also comparing wholesale with retail markets. If you are going to using a banking deal analogy then you need to draw an example from the retail market. So what we saw with the TAB NZ deal to BGP was akin to a Bank offering ONE customer a Fixed mortgage rate at a heavily discounted interest rate and all other customers only offered a daily floating interest rate at a much higher interest rate. Then the bank reduces their liability on the sweet deal by further increasing the floating interest rate. Of course that wouldn't happen in the banking industry because of regulation (banks have been hammered big fines for rorts) and competition. This is where it is a BIG marketing fail by TAB NZ. A lot of the average punters that I know have at some stage been dicked over by changes the TAB has introduced. They see adverts saying support your local industry and then they get ripped off by supposedly a promo to a select group. Note that from the TAB's wagering perspective the "Group" is considered to be one entity. Add to all that the desire by TAB NZ to regulate competitors out of the market and force customers to bet with them. That doesn't sound like a fair market to me - on the one hand offer special prices to one punter and then try and force everyone else to bet on their overpriced product. So you may not consider it a big deal but for many it is yet another cut towards the deathly thousand.

The "one off promo" angle he talks about is all retrospective BS. A big marketing fail in my opinion.

Are there anyone BOAY'ERS who have an opinion on whether the exclusive BGP Fixed Odds bet was legal in terms of the Racing and Wagering Acts? Or if it contravened Fair Trading or Financial Markets legislation?

You must be on quite a learning curve over the last couple of days JJ Flash with regard to wagering and marketing. All 101 stuff but I guess we all had to start somewhere.

Fair enough but it isnt exactly comparing apples with apples is it. For example Crozier was over 400mg granted he was just a trainer. The penalties take into consideration the loss of drives (rides), alcohol reading and earning capacity. 5 driving days for Blair Orange could be over 50 drives. The others mentioned in your list would be lucky to have got 50 rides in a season!

Your relatively detailed response was quick off the mark. I'm interested to know if you had pre-prepared it?

Yes and that is taken into consideration. Any recent comparison should be with the 8 weeks CWJ got.

You are comparing a different level of Jockey. Are we aware yet what the Butt and Orange penalty is?

Your evidence doesn't support your assertion.

Eh?! How do you work that out? It has nothing to do with HRNZ. The RIU are the Police for all three codes and the JCA are the judiciary. Don't forget not too many weeks ago it was NZ's Champion Jockey, Chris Johnson who got caught the same way. Not sure that Van Beyon did the same sort of article. In saying that I think the rule is an ass. Johnson was able to legally drive a truck float full of horses to the races but not ride them!

What the hell are you on about? You posted that you knew people who knew me personally. As for fiction I'll leave that to an expert like you.

How can I when I don't even know who you are referring to that "know me personally"!

It isn't actually because Gammalite isn't referring to the example under discussion which was very well answered in reply by MarkyMark.

The only option you had was to take it on the Tote which paid $1.70! There is growing evidence that the TAB offloaded their Fixed Odds Quinella bet onto the tote. If you scam your normal punter like that too often by favouring an "Elite" customer then you will find the average punter will go elsewhere.

I've been watching online. My TV is old and I don't have SKY.

You are missing the point Gammalite - the Fixed Odds Bet that BGP took was not available to ANYONE ELSE at ANY ODDS.