Doomed

And if I recall correctly Supreme Glory refused to go into the barriers and was on her very last chance when she finally relented. So with a less patient starter we may not have had the biggest Oaks upset ever. Certainly patient of the starter when you consider she was the rank outsider.

It would be interesting to know if the change of conditions for the Telegraph and Railway have helped the quality and quantity of those races and the betting on them. I get the impression those fields are smaller these days than in years gone by, although that would apply to many races of course.

I was wondering what he meant by last Wgtn Cup over two miles in 74, but of course after that they changed to 3,200m. Interestingly I could name most of the Wgtn Cup winners from about 1974 to 2009, but since then I can only recall two of them, just doesn't stick in the mind as a highlight any more. I clearly remember Kiwi beating Maurita. My biggest and most confident bet on the race was Imaprince. I recall telling the people I was with that Rastes had no chance of winning. And the worst judicial decision was relegating Reykjavik who paid about $10 for a place and would have given me a very decent collect.

I had no idea Ellerslie wasn't going to race in the winter. Is that the intention? Is it going to be like the Perth situation with Ascot and Belmont? Presumably Pukekohe is the Belmont in this case. I thought Moonee Valley raced all year round.

Yes, Timaru used to hold two days between Xmas and NY. That would have been one of the last Timaru Cups as a stayers handicap. Soon after it became a WFA mile and one of the early winners in that guise was Show Gate, famous of course for winning the 2,400 Dunedin Cup one day and the 1,600m Timaru Cup the following day. And of course Grey Way went on to win his own Timaru Cup later on after a few years of trying. I might be totally wrong, but Mister Pompous may have been owned by Barney Ballin who went on to own Little Brown Jug. But that is just a vague recollection.

Sadly, you are almost certainly correct. It is a predetermined agenda, which they seem to get away with continually.

One would think so, but as Pam says unlikely. To some extent it reflects poorly on the submissions from the Timaru Racing Club in the first place. I think most of us on here could easily point out 10 or more races that would be more deserving of a downgrade.

Quite small fields today, a couple of 11s and the rest 7s and 8s. It will be interesting to see what happens with bigger fields.

Every now and again you get a race that generates brilliant form subsequently from many of the runners. We saw this yesterday and I'm surprised none of the trackside commentators picked up on it. The Trentham Stakes winner and both open winners from Wingatui, the Cup and the sprint, all came directly out of the Timaru Cup and won at their next start. Just wait until the two horses who actually won the Timaru Cup step out again.

How does 9,000-10,000 on Karaka night compare with NZ Trotting Cup or Galloping Cup days?

Fascinating reading. I suppose when most of the high priced youngsters are bought to be 2yos and sprinters there isn't much upside when they fail at those roles. The original famous "flop" was Paint The Stars in the early 80s. The most expensive yearling to that point from memory.

I would imagine it is largely based on the performance of the handy southern stayer who won the Riverton Cup and has boosted the family no end.

Its all a matter of perspective. What do you base top 2yo on: group races won, stakes money won, quality of horses beaten? The horse that was voted top 2yo last year won nothing significant other than a restricted entry sweepstake race and hasn't fired a shot as a 3yo against all comers. So these days all such assessments are totally relative and subjective. Based on stakes money the last start maiden winner that wins the gimmick race at Trentham this month is a better horse than the Wgtn Cup winner. So who has any idea which horses are the best these days. It's a whole new world.

Correct.

And of course the top 3yo isn't eligible either.

I thought it was the first horse to get hard up against the outside fence wins if there was any rain about. The poor man's Wanganui.

I totally struggle with the concept of this gimmick race at Trentham that is worth $50,000 more than the Wgtn Cup. You have staying maidens desperate to win an $18,500 race at Wanganui to qualify for a race worth more than the Wgtn Cup. I wonder how many members of the public are excited by that race or have any idea how it works. I don't have the faintest idea how it works, but obviously win a stayers maiden and you are in. How bloody stupid. Meanwhile we have $50,000 open races regularly going around with 6 starters. There is one contributor on here who thinks the industry is being run expertly run, but in my view it has never been managed more poorly, and the money that is being wasted is unbelievable.

You may well find this year that the best 2yos and 3yos aren't eligible for Karaka, which in a sense is good because it should mean the Group race system prevails over the novelty/gimmick race concept.

The most interesting thing is only one CD horse. I can't imagine all the other CD 2yos are being aimed at Karaka. Perhaps it is more an indication of major problems in the CD. There have been a lot of meetings there with tiny fields for big stakes over recent months. Many years ago you might have had a southern 2yo turn up at Trentham in January. I recall the great southern 2yo Straight Line racing in the Magic Millions at Trentham in January after winning 5 in a row in the SI. You won't get a southern 2yo winning 5 in a row by January these days.

I think it was slightly later than 1980 as I can remember her racing at that Trentham meeting. She was a magnificent looking mare. I remember seeing her win the big race at Orari, I have a feeling she ran away and hid by about half the length of the straight, and of course she won the 1,000 Guineas. Was a contemporary of The Dimple and Just From Santa. Won one of the big miles at Trentham.

And don't get me wrong, I love a good front runner. I used to love Our Boyfriend and Vo Rouge. But I used to love them leading all the way at Riccarton and Flemington. Probably my favourite win of all time was CWJs front running ride on Domino to win the Oaks. And who can forget Pride of Jenni's two wins over Cup week at Flemington.

Because generally they favour front runners, which means that at the Valley if a decent enough horse is in front turning for home then nothing further back in the field has any chance. The strangest track is Caulfield. It either favours front runners all day or else the winners come swooping down the outside all day. It usually takes a couple of races to figure out which it will be. And with our terrible form guides we can't easily determine which horses are the likely leaders.

I went to a couple of Wgtn Cup meetings a few years ago after many years away and it was incredibly depressing.

I would usually have one bet at Moonee Valley each year. I hate short straights and Moonee Valley would be shorter than Kumara.

With the inevitable demise of Auckland we may see a total restructuring of harness racing and the Easter Cup may become relevant again. I have asked numerous times if the changing of the harness season to start on 1 Jan has been a success but no one has ever answered.