Doomed

I would imagine it is largely based on the performance of the handy southern stayer who won the Riverton Cup and has boosted the family no end.

Its all a matter of perspective. What do you base top 2yo on: group races won, stakes money won, quality of horses beaten? The horse that was voted top 2yo last year won nothing significant other than a restricted entry sweepstake race and hasn't fired a shot as a 3yo against all comers. So these days all such assessments are totally relative and subjective. Based on stakes money the last start maiden winner that wins the gimmick race at Trentham this month is a better horse than the Wgtn Cup winner. So who has any idea which horses are the best these days. It's a whole new world.

Correct.

And of course the top 3yo isn't eligible either.

I thought it was the first horse to get hard up against the outside fence wins if there was any rain about. The poor man's Wanganui.

I totally struggle with the concept of this gimmick race at Trentham that is worth $50,000 more than the Wgtn Cup. You have staying maidens desperate to win an $18,500 race at Wanganui to qualify for a race worth more than the Wgtn Cup. I wonder how many members of the public are excited by that race or have any idea how it works. I don't have the faintest idea how it works, but obviously win a stayers maiden and you are in. How bloody stupid. Meanwhile we have $50,000 open races regularly going around with 6 starters. There is one contributor on here who thinks the industry is being run expertly run, but in my view it has never been managed more poorly, and the money that is being wasted is unbelievable.

You may well find this year that the best 2yos and 3yos aren't eligible for Karaka, which in a sense is good because it should mean the Group race system prevails over the novelty/gimmick race concept.

The most interesting thing is only one CD horse. I can't imagine all the other CD 2yos are being aimed at Karaka. Perhaps it is more an indication of major problems in the CD. There have been a lot of meetings there with tiny fields for big stakes over recent months. Many years ago you might have had a southern 2yo turn up at Trentham in January. I recall the great southern 2yo Straight Line racing in the Magic Millions at Trentham in January after winning 5 in a row in the SI. You won't get a southern 2yo winning 5 in a row by January these days.

I think it was slightly later than 1980 as I can remember her racing at that Trentham meeting. She was a magnificent looking mare. I remember seeing her win the big race at Orari, I have a feeling she ran away and hid by about half the length of the straight, and of course she won the 1,000 Guineas. Was a contemporary of The Dimple and Just From Santa. Won one of the big miles at Trentham.

And don't get me wrong, I love a good front runner. I used to love Our Boyfriend and Vo Rouge. But I used to love them leading all the way at Riccarton and Flemington. Probably my favourite win of all time was CWJs front running ride on Domino to win the Oaks. And who can forget Pride of Jenni's two wins over Cup week at Flemington.

Because generally they favour front runners, which means that at the Valley if a decent enough horse is in front turning for home then nothing further back in the field has any chance. The strangest track is Caulfield. It either favours front runners all day or else the winners come swooping down the outside all day. It usually takes a couple of races to figure out which it will be. And with our terrible form guides we can't easily determine which horses are the likely leaders.

I went to a couple of Wgtn Cup meetings a few years ago after many years away and it was incredibly depressing.

I would usually have one bet at Moonee Valley each year. I hate short straights and Moonee Valley would be shorter than Kumara.

With the inevitable demise of Auckland we may see a total restructuring of harness racing and the Easter Cup may become relevant again. I have asked numerous times if the changing of the harness season to start on 1 Jan has been a success but no one has ever answered.

The big thing that is continually apparent is that the problems with NZ Racing do not centre around the small clubs. The problems continue to involve the major metropolitan clubs, as they have for many years. How much better off is the industry since the demise of Hokitika, Waimate, Banks Pen and Waikouaiti? Surely that must be measurable? Of course they can point to higher stakes at the relocated Banks Pen and Waikouaiti meetings but that is purely because of NZTR handouts. I imagine that both of those meetings used to run at a profit but now show massive losses. It is all beyond my understanding. I don't recall a single well set out, intelligently reasoned paper from NZTR explaining how all of the policies will do wonders for the industry. If they would just engage a little more and rely on intellect, forums like this could all revert to discussing the merits of various horses not courses.

Do you know what the word average means?

I think that's a bit harsh. That wasn't the biggest faux pas in commentating. They all make mistakes, and he only got the name slightly wrong so everyone knew who he was talking about.

You have to fell sorry for George. Kumara today, back to earth at Ellerslie next week.

I thought Robbie Patterson and Kylie Williams both spoke very well on TV after the Nuggets. It must be very beneficial for trainers and jockeys to impress on TV.

Incredible when you think about it, $20 to get into Kumara because there is so much demand, free entry at Auckland on new years day because no one is all that interested.

Just out of interest with that TAB chap claiming on course attendance doesn't matter at all and NZTR claiming there is no place for country racing, I compared the total win and place pool in race 2, the $18,500 maiden, at Kumara, with the next race at HB, the $40,000 rating 75. $47,000 at Kumara, $37,000 at HB. That doesn't really seem to align with any of the prevailing theories. Surely the bigger stake, higher grade of horse and better jockeys should mean HB would be a much more appealing race? There was even the heavy track at Kumara compared with soft at HB. I hope a lot of the decisions being made are based on some actual facts rather than purely theory. And the next at Kumara, $64,000 despite their smallest field of the day.

Those jockeys you refer to have won heaps of races between them over the last week or so. Kylie won 3 at Tauherenikau, Tina wins all over the place, Denby-Rose won 2 at Greymouth, Lee won 2 at Greymouth including the Cup, before that he won the Timaru Cup, Kavish won 2 at Greymouth, Craig Grylls is a fair enough jockey. No idea where you got that inexperienced idea from.

Wait till she goes to Karaka night and gets to mix with all the influencers. She will never go country racing again.

I would be interested in some examples of the dissatisfaction over dates and funding allocation etc. From my memory the dissatisfaction was usually over the poor performance of the major clubs such as Auckland, Te Rapa. Trentham and Riccarton. The innovators in those days were usually the smaller clubs with enlightened administrators such as Counties, Levin, Geraldine etc, even Tauranga was innovative in those days. Most of the dissatisfaction over dates revolved around Auckland trying to run roughshod over the rights of other clubs, notably trying to push Wgtn off their cup dates to run big races on Auck anniversary weekend. I find it a bit bizarre to blame today's poor infrastructure on the failings of the 80s. In those days there was an amenities fund which build grandstands at Ellerslie, New Plymouth, Riccarton, Banks Pen, Ashburton, Omoto etc, lights at Avondale, and even a brand new race course at Ruakaka. Since the model has changed I don't recall many major infrastructure projects at all. The AWTs were funded through a dubious bit of pork barrel politics. And numerous racecourses were either closed during that period, or the clubs racing at them went out of business: Masterton, Levin, Fielding, Bulls, Marton, Nelson, Westport, Hororata, Beaumont, Tapanui, Orari etc.. They mostly closed through natural attrition rather than being forced out due to a fleeting ideological movement. And there were some very good administrators during those days at the likes of Counties, Tauranga, Awapuni, Ashburton etc, many of whom would be shocked to see the way things have turned out. Even the TAB was well run and respected in those days. I think many would put the decline of the racing industry down to the mid 90s and the years thereafter rather than the period TAB refers to.

TAB thinks owners and punters are important but doesn't seem concerned that they spend many hundreds of dollars getting to a meeting to watch their horse or have a punt only to discover the crowd can be counted in the hundreds. Must make them wonder why they bothered. Total lack of atmosphere. I'm sure there are some socialites who only go to Karaka day. You wonder how much they contribute to the industry as a whole. It is fairly obvious they don't get excited enough to go to Te Rapa the next week.