Thomass

Your turn Sandpiper...or Freda.. Do you agree or accept the above?

Damn good work Winn ..and what did your fellow Righteous Right Knats do Chef? Just laid back and watched Sir Righteous Donkey DO NOTHING...

Funny you should mention 'results data' These are from the actual BHA Handicappers in consultation with their European partners...65,000 Handicap starts over 6 years...then some WFA stuffjz In case you can't read or haven't the time to take off the Sultancy gig... They came to the conclusion 3yo's winning margins were @ 0.5L further than older neddys over 2000M and change... ..so they gave them a pound extra to even things up Lets see...yep that's about what I use and the Industry Standard....those with GRAVITAS in the Industry... 1kg = 3/4L Here...peruse this...Then don't get back to me Adjustments to Flat Weight-For-Age Scale to be implemented across Europe from 2017 BHA carried out year-long consultation and analysis of over 90,000 runners over six years as integral part of decision-making process The British Horseracing Authority (BHA) has today moved to outline the importance of the alterations to the Weight-For-Age Scale – which were announced by the European Pattern Committee (EPC) earlier this morning – and to publish key elements of the data which informed the decision. As part of the research, BHA Head of Handicapping Phil Smith, alongside the BHA’s Racing Department, carried out an extensive data analysis which compared the strike rate for three-year-olds against older horses over a period of six years. It looked at the differences between each year, month and by distance across a sample of over 89,000 runners in handicaps and 5,000 runners in Weight-For-Age races, comparing finishing position, rivals beaten, average winning distance and more. The key findings of the BHA data analysis can be found by clicking on the below image: As a consequence of the data analysis, which also included research by other European nations that corroborated the BHA’s findings, alterations have been made to the Weight-For-Age Scale from the second half of June over 10 furlongs and above. The adjustments are designed to remove a clear advantage which the data showed the existing Scale was conferring on three-year-old horses over middle and longer distances in the second half of the year. The alterations to the Scale range in size from 1lb at 10, 11 and 12 furlongs to a maximum decrease of 3lb over longer distances where the advantage afforded to three-year-olds was shown to be the most acute. The new Scale, and an illustration of the alterations made to the Scale, can be found here. Phil Smith, Head of Handicapping for the BHA, said: “When we started the process of reviewing the Weight-For-Age data, well over a year ago, I suspected that the statistics might show a bias towards three-year-olds over longer distances in the second half of the season. The data has borne that out. “The key findings of the data were that three-year-olds have a higher strike rate than older horses, which is particularly noticeable from July onwards, and that as distance increases, so does the strike rate of three-year-olds, and their average winning margin. This is because three-year-olds are on average improving at a faster rate than the Weight-For-Age scale currently dictates. “The alterations made to the Scale should help to create a more level playing field for older horses competing against three-year-olds across Europe. At first the alterations will be seen as a trial and all the data will be kept under review for a number of years, to ensure that the alterations are having the desired, and necessary, effect.” Ruth Quinn, Director of International Racing and Racing Development for the BHA, said: “Alongside the process of compiling and analysing extensive and relevant data, we carried out a lengthy consultation with stakeholders. In the light of the stakeholder feedback, achieving a uniform scale throughout Europe has been a key priority for all involved. As such, we are delighted that the EPC and its member countries have formally endorsed the proposal. “The scale is obviously designed to compensate younger horses for their lack of physical maturity. It was never designed to provide an advantage to one particular age group at the expense of another. There is extensive evidence to indicate that the scale needs amending to more accurately reflect the physical development rate of today’s average racehorse. “It was the firm belief of the EPC that no horse should be knowingly advantaged by a concept which was originally designed to provide a level playing field. We have a collective responsibility to ensure that the environment within which horses compete is as equitable as possible. “I would like to thank everyone who gave their time to this important project.” Rupert Arnold, Chief Executive of the National Trainers Federation (NTF), said: “Our Flat Committee was at first sceptical of the argument that a change was needed to the Weight For Age scale, which in their opinion had stood the test of time. All credit to the BHA Racing Department for the depth of evidential data they produced to demonstrate that in the current era, the scale marginally favours three-year-olds at certain times of year over longer distances. “The NTF endorsed the changes subject to them being applied throughout Europe so we are pleased that the other European Pattern Committee members have come on board.” Notes to editors: 1. The revised Weight-For-Age Scale and full data pack can be found here. 2. Alterations to the Weight For Age Scale – Questions and Answers can be found here. 3. c. 6,200 races fall under the Weight-For-Age Scale in Britain, of which approximately 800 (13%) will be affected by the changes to the scale in 2017. 4. As a consequence of the amendments to the scale, there will also be changes made to the scale of allowances given to Southern Hemisphere bred horses.

The problem with 'personal opinions' is they should be judged on an overall basis... ...which will be enable readers to come to a conclusion on a scale of veracity over b/s One of yours..."there's nothing to see in 'loose v holding' next

It's a real shame your devotion to being a Sultan of Sophistry doesn't allow you to recognise theory from a scientific study... Even your 'study' found a different set of Stats for wet tracks! Where you studied wet tracks for App. allowances and came to the conclusion they were worse than Firm stats... ...or was that your fellow Sultan? ..doesn't really matter as you always agree with your fellow alma mater don't you?

Maybe that's why you priced VERRY FLASH at 35's with the 3kg allowance when winning at 7's?? next

Hahaha onya...'Pomgolia Hurdles' where breathing, cadence, length of stride et el IS TOTES DIFFERENT to anything wrt NZ Flat Racing Talk about desperation

Yep..almost no diff....1Kg = 0.1L... ....yet you wanted the Female allowance changed back 0.5kg = 0.05L.... ...due to the massive unfair advantage...causing the horse population to move offshore...correct? ...how embarrassing for you... I'm with ALL Australian and Brit Handicappers who tell us...1Kg = 3/4L Anyway here's some bedtime reading for you...real scientific stuff..so don ya White Lab Coat and ENJOY... Probably one of the most asked questions in horse racing is: What effect does a jockey’s weight have on a horse’s performance? If a horse picks up five pounds from his last race, what effect in lengths, time, Beyer numbers, or any other rating system might we expect? Is a pound extra more critical at sprints or routes? These are just a few of the questions handicappers ask themselves daily trying to decipher the information in their past performance whether the Daily Racing Form, Equibase Program, or any of the many online past performance services provided on the internet. Over the next few pages I will give you some incite in how weight carried effects the performance of a horse during a race and how to decide if you need to consider weight as a handicapping factor. Racing secretaries try to set race conditions using weight as a means to even out a race. Handicap races for older horses can have a significant range of weights sometimes over 20 pounds between the top weight horse and other members of the race. Horses like Forgo, Kelso, and Dr. Fager carried weights in the 130 plus range throughout their careers. Did they have weight limits? I will show two different analyses for the impact of weight carried by a horse. The first will be using Newton’s second law where force equals mass times acceleration otherwise know as F=ma. The second analysis will used actual exercise physiology results. Each analysis is based on dead weight at the center of gravity of the horse. Later I will discuss live weight and location of weight. Dead weight can be considered the same as weight due to extra body fat. The force function of the above equation can be modeled analytically so that the function can be integrated to get velocity and then displacement. I won’t go into the equation in detail, however it has an exponential term (constant * exp (-t/tau)) with a time constant (tau). The following table shows the results for analytically solution. The table has the fractional times of a race for two different horses. Total weight of horse and riders is 1190 and 1210 pounds with a horse weight of 1080 pounds. Times shown in the table are in seconds. The race that is simulated has a gate run-up of 65 feet. There are five additional rows shown in the table. The second row (delta, seconds) is the time difference between the two horses. The next row is the seconds per pound of weight. The sec/5 lbs. row is how many seconds for five extra pounds. The lbs/fifth sec row is for how many pounds required to increase running time one fifth of a second (.20 seconds). The last row is from another part of the analysis that calculated the number of pounds required to cost a horse one length (10 feet). Table 1: Weight, lbs. 2f 4f 6f 8f 10f Horse 1 - 1190 24.02 47.69 71.56 95.65 121.06 Horse 2 - 1210 24.41 48.48 72.77 97.27 123.13 delta, sec (0.391) (0.794) (1.205) (1.622) (2.068) sec/lb 0.020 0.040 0.060 0.081 0.103 sec/5lbs. 0.098 0.198 0.301 0.406 0.517 lbs/fifth sec 10.24 5.04 3.32 2.47 1.93 lbs/10ft 9.3 4.58 3.05 2.3 1.8 If you want to convert to Beyer Speed Figure (BSF) we can use the following from “Beyer on Speed” page 20. At 6f one length = 2.4 points or 1-fifth sec =2.8 points and at 8f one length = 1.8 points. Beyer also says on page 106-107 that a kilogram (2.2 pounds) equals one point in his system at all distances or a pound is worth 0.45 points. From the above analysis we have 3.05 pounds equals one length at 6f. This makes each pound worth 0.80 points and about the same at 8f. It appears that Beyer number is a little low. As a rough rule of thumb we could use one half to one point for each pound of weight shift at all distances or one to two pounds for each point. Beyer developed his rules from actual horse race results where a horse fitness level changes. The analytical analysis is based on a fixed fitness level. Sheet players use a weight shift of five pounds as one point. The second analysis is based on data collected by researchers from the exercise physiology and experimental biology fields. Some of this information will be based on actual thoroughbred (TB) horses, some on other mammals, and humans. I will give references for the academia type of handicappers if they would like to do their own research. In some cases I might offer some opinions on how to use this information. I will try to keep the technical terms to a minimum or give a related term. C.R. Taylor (1970) showed that the energy cost of running in all animals from a mouse to an elephant is directly related to the running speed. He also showed that larger animals have a lower energy cost on a per pound basis. Energy is determined based on the amount of oxygen the animal uses while running. Laboratory test results show that the oxygen consumption for a dog and a horse are linear (straight line) as running speed increases with the smaller animal having a steeper increase (slope) in oxygen consumption, Figure 1. Eaton (1988) showed that from laboratory test that a horse has an outstanding capability to consume oxygen almost twice what the top human runners. Oxygen consumption is measured by milliliters of oxygen per kilogram of body weight per minute with a horse having a maximum oxygen consumption (Vo2max) range from 104 to 170 ml/kg/min on the average. You can think of the oxygen term as horsepower per body weight or a measure of class. Higher oxygen consumption the more horsepower generated the better the horse (higher class). This concept will be the basis for showing how weight carried effects the performance. Taylor (1980) showed that when rats, dogs, horses, and humans carry an extra load that the oxygen consumption increased in direct proportion to the added load. For example if the load was 10 percent of body mass, the oxygen consumption was increased by 10 percent, and so on, as shown in Figure 2. Thus a larger horse would carry less percentage then a smaller horse when carrying the same weight. Potard (1998) measured the oxygen consumption during laboratory test on TB showing a maximum oxygen consumption peaking at 136 ml/kg/min at around 12-13 meters per second (m/sec) or 36 to 40 feet per second (ft/sec) while running with the equivalent of 10 percent of body weight as a draft load. These test results were measured on horizontal motorized treadmills and usually without the wind component being simulated. In addition, a treadmill does not simulate an actual track. Lejeune (1998) measured humans running in sand and shown that the cost of running increases between 1.2-1.6 times that of running on a treadmill. In this discussion I will use a value of 1.2 for the additional cost of running in sand to simulate the track. The term Vo2max represents the highest level of oxygen consumption the individual horse can obtain. The energy supplied to run at higher speed comes from energy stored in the muscles. At high speeds above Vo2max the horse is running with what is known as an oxygen debt. Oxygen debt is measured by the amount of lactic acid that is accumulated in the muscles and/or blood. Each TB has their own limits of lactic acid based on training and genetics. In the following example I will use a baseline Vo2max value of 136 ml/kg/min to show how weight effects performance. Table 2 shows the velocity versus oxygen consumption for a TB horse. Column one is the horse speed (feet per second, ft/sec) on the treadmill, column two through five are the oxygen consumption values (ml/kg/min) on the treadmill, column three for running on sand (simulate the race track), column four is for a jockey weight of 130 pounds and the last column for a jockey of 110 pounds. The table shows that at a constant speed the oxygen required increases as the load condition increases running in sand or carrying weight. Table 2: Velocity Oxygen Running Jockey Jockey Consumption in Sand Weight Weight Vel, ft/sec O2, ml/kg/min 1.2 130 110 5 15.5 18.6 20.84 20.49 10 26 31.2 34.96 34.38 15 36.5 43.8 49.07 48.26 20 47 56.4 63.19 62.14 25 57.5 69 77.31 76.03 30 68 81.6 91.42 89.91 35 78.5 94.2 105.54 103.79 40 89 106.8 119.66 117.68 45 99.5 119.4 133.77 131.56 50 110 132 147.89 145.44 55 120.5 144.6 162.01 159.33 60 131 157.2 176.12 173.21 65 141.5 169.8 190.24 187.09 70 152 182.4 204.36 200.98 75 162.5 195 218.47 214.86 80 173 207.6 232.59 228.74 85 183.5 220.2 246.71 242.63 In our example we said our horse had a maximum oxygen consumption of 136 ml/kg/min, which occurs at a velocity just over 50 ft/sec on the racetrack without a rider. Add a rider and the speed at maximum oxygen consumption occurs at around 45 ft/sec at 130 pounds and about 47 ft/sec for 110 pounds. Table 2 shows the oxygen values for speeds up to 85 ft/sec even though maximum speed for a horse is only in the 70 plus ft/sec range without a rider. We will use the above table to calculate the velocity for each rider at a constant oxygen consumption level giving a velocity difference. Using the velocity difference and time we can then calculate the distance difference for the two riders. Eaton (1995) showed that a horse running at a velocity corresponding to 105 percent of Vo2max can run at that speed for about 165 seconds, at 115 percent for only 98 seconds and finally at 125 percent for only 57 seconds. Using these time values and the information from Table 2 we get the results shown in Table 3. Table 3 shows that at each value of oxygen consumption level and at each time value the amount of weight which would cost a horse 10 feet (one standard horse length) and one fifth of a second of time. Table 3: Time> sec. 57 98 165 O2, ml/kg*min lb/10ft lb/.20 sec lb/10ft lb/.20 sec lb/10ft lb/.20 sec 15.5 38.03 2.40 22.12 1.40 13.14 0.83 26 22.67 3.13 13.19 1.82 7.83 1.08 36.5 16.15 3.44 9.39 2.00 5.58 1.19 47 12.54 3.61 7.29 2.10 4.33 1.25 57.5 10.25 3.72 5.96 2.17 3.54 1.29 68 8.67 3.80 5.04 2.21 2.99 1.31 78.5 7.51 3.85 4.37 2.24 2.59 1.33 89 6.62 3.90 3.85 2.27 2.29 1.35 99.5 5.92 3.93 3.45 2.28 2.05 1.36 110 5.36 3.96 3.12 2.30 1.85 1.37 120.5 4.89 3.98 2.85 2.31 1.69 1.37 131 4.50 4.00 2.62 2.32 1.55 1.38 141.5 4.17 4.01 2.42 2.33 1.44 1.39 152 3.88 4.03 2.26 2.34 1.34 1.39 162.5 3.63 4.04 2.11 2.35 1.25 1.39 173 3.41 4.05 1.98 2.35 1.18 1.40 183.5 3.21 4.06 1.87 2.36 1.11 1.40 Based on Table 2 we see that racing speeds occur at oxygen consumption levels in the 145-160 ml/kg/min. Lets take a closer look at the values for oxygen consumption of 152 ml/kg/min a middle value. We’ll make an assumption that each one of the time values corresponds to a race distance so we can compare it to Table 1. We’ll say 57 seconds is 5f, 98 seconds is 8f, and 165 seconds is 12f race distances. From Table 3: Time> sec. 57 98 165 O2, ml/kg*min lb/10ft lb/.20 sec lb/10ft lb/.20 sec lb/10ft lb/.20 sec 152 3.88 4.03 2.26 2.34 1.34 1.39 Our results show that at 57 seconds that 3.88 pounds is required for each horse length. Table 1 showed that at 4f, 4.58 pounds was required and at 6f, 3.05 pounds. Splitting the difference to get 5f puts us at 3.81 pounds. At 98 seconds we had 2.26 pounds per length and 2.3 pounds for 8f. So from two different methods one analytical and one based on exercise physiology test of the oxygen consumption of a TB, basically give us the same answer. This analysis was for dead weight located at the center of gravity of the horse Now a jockey position is at a location above the center of gravity on the horse. The natural question to ask is there any positive or negative effect because of the jockey as live weight? Unfortunately I could not locate any research data of oxygen consumption with riders versus dead weight. The effect of weight at other locations other then the center of gravity can have a significant impact on oxygen consumption levels. Myers (1985) found that the cost of adding a given mass to the limbs is significantly greater than adding it to the center of mass and that this effect becomes more pronounced as the limb loads are moved distally (towards the foot). Miller (1987) showed a 0.8% increase in oxygen consumption for ankle weights of 100 grams on human runners. A 600-gram weight at the center of gravity would result in the same increase of oxygen consumption. Relative to horse racing, any increase in extra weight carried along the leg and at the hoof could impact on a horse’s performance. For example on a muddy or sloppy day a large horse (large hoof) could end up carrying extra dirt in it’s hoof relative to a smaller horse (smaller hoof). Also the come from behind type of runner could have additional weight along the legs from mud being thrown back from horse’s in front. This extra weight could be enough to cost a win. In summary I’ve shown that weight carried impacts a horses performance and this impact changes as the distance of the race changes. The impact of weight along the legs and at the hoof has more impact then weight at the center of gravity. Relative to handicapping we can adjust Beyer Speed Figures (BSF) for a weight shift using from one to two pounds being worth one point in BSF. We can also see that horses could have a limit on the amount to their weight carrying ability. Weight carrying ability is based on their size and their maximum oxygen consumption level.

Were you that annoying little runt in class type kid in short pants at primary school?

Yea and Ive got a theory that when I see a hot woman across a crowded room my data goes off the graph...so it's a 'thing' same 'thing'

This is as accepted in the Industry as the term HOLDING is chef You don't have to have had a COG moment to pop up with this gem

Why aren't you addressing your MASSIVE CONTADICTORY position? You can't have it both ways...unless you're an hermaphrodite... Either the Mares 0.5kg makes a difference..as you claim... ...or " weight makes no difference" as you claim Each way all day or whichever way the wind blows is it?

Do you actually listen/watch anything at all on race days...or are you being dragged around Reemers K Mart by the princess? Of course he was 'in form'...3L from the winner albeit in a lower grade...on "unsuitable HOLDING ground" ( trainer's words) 3 days before... the trainer said " yes very happy with the last start on an unsuitable track and I knew it was going to rain so I decided to start" BTW why didn't you demand evidence from Turns about the 5 k claim...who got totally screwed at 24's when 51 was available ...and you think that's good shopping? K Mart it wasn't next

Yes what a breath of fresh air he is...not from a family horse background either moon? Love to see POA do it and then come down on a high.. Heres some interesting KPI's for the Ebor...who knew WEIGHT had such an influence on the race? Run over 1m6f the Betfred-sponsored Ebor Handicap is open to horses aged 3 or older and is run at York racecourse in August at their 4-day Ebor Festival Meeting. We’ve only seen one winning favourite land the prize in the last 20 years, so be wary of the market leaders, while with 16 of the last 17 winners were aged 6 or younger then you might want to avoid any older horses in the race. We look back at past winners and give you the key trends ahead of Europe’s most valuable flat handicap race – run this year on Saturday August 24th 2019. Key Ebor Handicap Betting Trends 16/17 – Carried 9-4 or less 16/17 – Aged 6 or younger 14/17 – Won from a double-figure stall 14/17 – Had won over at least 1m4f before 12/17 – Carried 9-1 or less 12/17 – Aged either 4 or 5 years-old 11/17 – Winning Distance – 1 length or less 10/17 – Had 3 or more runs already that season 9/17 – Unplaced favourites 8/17 – Had run at York before 5/17 – Ran at Ascot last time out 5/17 – Won last time out 4/17 – Irish-trained winners (4 of the last 9) 4/17 – Ran at Goodwood last time out 3/17 – Ran at Galway last time out 2/17 – Ridden by Jamie Spencer 2/17 – Placed horses from stall 1 (third 2011, third 2013) 1/17 – Winning favourites Just one winning favourite since 1999 Trainer Sir Michael Stoute won the race in 1980, 1991 & 1996 The average winning SP in the last 17 years is 21/1 Past Betfred Ebor Winners 2018 – Muntahaa (11/1) 2017 – Nakeeta (12/1) 2016 – Heartbreak City (15/2) 2015 – Litigant (33/1) 2014 – Mutual Regard (20/1) 2013 – Tiger Cliff (5/1) 2012 – Willing Foe (12/1) 2011 – Moyenne Corniche (25/1) 2010 – Dirar (14/1) 2009 – Sesenta (25/1) 2008 – All The Good (25/1) 2007 – Purple Moon (7/2 fav) 2006 – Mudawin (100/1) 2005 – Sergeant Cecil (11/1) 2004 – Mephisto (6/1) 2003 – Saint Alebe (20/1) 2002 – Hugs Dancer (25/1) Note: 2008 renewal at Newbury over 1m3f So – what are the main stats to look for? Age Concern – We saw a 6 year-old win the race in 2017 and a 7 year-old land the prize in 2015, but the main age trend got back on track last year with the 5 year-old Muntahaa going in. That win meant that 16 of the last 17 winners were aged 6 or younger, while 12 of the last 17 (71%) were aged 4 or 5 years-old, so it should pay to concentrate more on this age range. Quick Draw – With the Ebor being run over 1m6f then you may feel the draw won’t play a big role. However, this is certainly not the case. Having a good early position and not being forced to travel wide around the home bend into the long York straight has been a big advantage. A massive 14 of the last 17 winners came from a double-figure stall – backed-up again in 2018 with Muntahaa winning from stall 21. This will hopefully allow us to rule out a massive 9 of the 20ish runners that are likely to head to post. This draw trend is further backed-up as we’ve seen just two placed horses from stall one in the last 17 years, and 12 months ago the top four finishers all hailed from a double-figure draw. Trip Advisor – I’ve already mentioned the race is run over 1m6f, but having winning form over a trip of at least 1m4f+ is key, with 14 of the last 17 winners ticking this stat. Of course, this trend will apply to most of the runners, but is still something to be aware of. Weight Watchers – Being a handicap race, then weight carried is another factor to note. Yes, last year’s winner won with 9st-9lbs, but a massive 16 of the last 17 winners carried 9st-4lbs or less, so this should still be your cut-off point. Plus, if you want to take this trend a bit further then 12 of those 17 recent winners won with 9st-1lbs or less on their backs – this should help knock out a few at least. Bookie v Punter – who has fared best? Well, the answer to this is a quick one. We’ve seen only one winning favourite since 1999 – while with a 100/1 winner popping up in 2006. Therefore, I think it’s safe to say this is a contest the bookmakers look forward to each season and have dominated in recent years. Oh, if you also like laying horses on the betting exchanges then you might be interested to know that 9 of the last 17 market leaders (53%) have NOT even made the frame (top four finish) – this was backed-up again in 2018 with the jolly only managing twelfth. Fitness First – Having had a recent run seems to count for something too. Runners that had three or more outings that same season have done best. 10 of the last 17 fit the bill here, while 8 of the last 17 winners had previous course experience at York – two more trends that last year’s winner ticked. Plus, with a 9 of the last 17 (53%) winners having run at either Goodwood or Ascot last time out this is another form line to see if your fancy fulfils. Stable Diet – Finally, which are the best yards to look for? Luca Cumani used to have a good record in the race, but he’s now retired. Trainer John Gosden won the prize for the first time last year and is sure to be keen on following up, but the Sir Michael Stoute is the stable with the best record. Okay, they’ve not won the prize since 1996, but the Stoute camp have recorded three wins in the Ebor between 1980 and 1996 – so maybe they are due another! Finally, being run over 1m6f then it’s also a race some of the National Hunt yard tend to target – especially the Irish ones. Since 2009 we’ve had winners for the Willie Mullins, Gordon Elliott, Johnny Murtagh and Tony Martin, so anything any Irish-based yard sends over should certainly be given a second glance.

So it must be a waste of time when Stipes do the obligatory radio report they always tell us... "it'll be HOLDING"...if it is..or "loose" when it's not? Next you'll be telling us ALL horses can handle a H 11 ...when there's a 30L difference between some H 11's? No, good luck to older neddys when they win...but I'm all over the young ones...you should know by now ...less miles in the legs, on the up, from a lower base weight...in short progressive neddys... But you're right about some neddys having a 'winning weight' suited to their physical statures...

'New' bee owners must be a nightmare to present day Trainers...under pressure already... If Shillings for Jillings or any old time Trainers had this grief from newbie owners the neddy would be at their doorstep in no time... At least he's spending his money in this Industry.... Don Ho wanted to and did...and on Prima facie evidence...got taken advantage of... Praise be to da gods that Bren Lindsey got into plastics before the Greens banned them...and hooked up with the Yanks who love plastic.. ...while Bren was already hooked on Thoroughbreds Now Someone needs to gift a blue blood Thoroughbred to Graeme Hart or any close relatives..to get that incredibly rich family...hooked line and sink.. ...and tell them Eric Watson's now dire predicament had absolutely nothing to do with his involvement in this Industry..but it was due to hooking up with loose az women

I said "quite possibly" The fact remains anywhich way...horses 'in form' are more likely to handle increases in weight.... ...and then you get smart az Jockeys like Lanrny O who used to negate any big weights by... ...RACING HANDIER...he knew Weight makes a difference.. Lets see... ...a highweight rider with fatty deposits named CURIOUS V LARNY O

Actually weren't you ANTI this info being a 'thing' Chef? Speak up or forever hold your piece... Or have you 'turned'?

It's YOU'RE...You are a legend...ok? Or...YOU ARE...YOU'RE a DICKHEAD... ...or...your dickhead is the bell end of all richard craniums...a supreme dickhead As I say..I'm over the f in moon about YOUR incredible perspicacity on this... But have you no empathy for your fellow Punters who didn't get the oil that this neddy eats loose mud..but not glue?? And that if the ignorant RIU accept the excuse of GLUE V LOOSE... that they should highlight that in their pitch reports? And that NZTR should also accept that rating in their f in PDF stats they send to RITA...god bless her

Absolutely love the 'get out' mate "stats may have changed since" Yea, 1993 to be exact...on soupy Yankee tracks with weird Yankee 'handicapping' But get this... "Horses who increase in weight have a better chance" No shit... ..did he think they're the ones who'll be 'in form' and that others going down in ratings...could quite possibly be on a downer...and 'out of form' Na, obviously he doesn't think...

The problem you have is the totes lack of understanding of the word 'CONTRADICTORY' You can't on one hand tell NZTR their female allowance is out by...Weight for it... 0.5kg...which in your world is 0.05L...bizarre in itself ..and they "need to get back to 1 1/2kgs to even the stats up" And tell us "weight don't matter"... then dishing us up shit Yankee stats racing on soup from as far back as 26 years ago!! The hard evidence moi showed...you may have missed it....and which took away ALL variables... ...of course was on a treadmill....which CLEARLY showed the affect weight does have... The only advice I can give for your fatty deposit problem...is to take a sit behind your fellow partner...I.e. get cover...hook out and outfinish the sucker ...because that's a 'thing' even though your alma mater mate says... " but they race wide without cover in Harness so I don't see the problem" Next you'll be agreeing 100% on that b/s...as indeed you do on everything else he shit talks

Great to hear the pommy neddy PRINCE OF ARRAN is back bigtime..according to Charlie F, his trainer...Great 3rd last year and on track for the good form race the Ebor later this month Ebor the "perfect race" for Prince Of Arran, says Charlie Fellowes Mon 12 Aug 2019 Charlie Fellowes believes Prince Of Arran can defy his advancing years and make his presence felt in the Sky Bet Ebor at York. The evergreen six-year-old will try to gain his first win since landing a Group Three event at Flemington in November when lining up in the prestigious 14-furlong prize on August 24. Although the son of Shirocco, who finished third in last year’s Melbourne Cup, has failed to win in more than eight months, the Newmarket handler is confident he will have plenty in his favour on the Knavesmire. Prince Of Arran finished last of five at Goodwood on his return Fellowes said: “I should think the Ebor will be the perfect race for Prince of Arran. A mile-six is his trip and a big field really suits him with a strong pace. “His best races have come in the Northumberland Plate and Melbourne Cup and they were big fields. “Hopefully everything should be ideal for him as it looks a quality line up and almost like the English version of the Melbourne Cup, although I’d be surprised if there are horses quite as good as Cross Counter and Marmelo in there.” Prince of Arran failed to beat a rival home in his Ebor prep run in a Group Three at Goodwood earlier this month, but it was an effort Fellowes was more than happy with. Fellowes said: “We were pretty happy with Prince Of Arran and we didn’t expect much more. It is harder getting these older horses fit and running him that day at Goodwood was like three pieces of work. “We knew that the mile and a half there would be too sharp and although a lot of things were against him, he did great. He travelled great and he was in the mix until a furlong out when the others quickened past him. “I’m delighted he went up there as that should hopefully put him spot on for York.” Carnwennan and Stevie Donohoe seen winning the Northumberland Vase at Newcastle will head to York later this month (Clint Hughes/PA Images) A trip to York will also be on the agenda for Northumberland Vase winner Carnwennan, with Fellowes earmarking the Sky Bet Handicap Stakes as his next target. He added: “Carnwennan will go to York for the two-mile handicap worth £70,000 as we know he handles the track being a course and distance winner. “We thought about going for the Shergar Cup, but this is worth more and it gives us another two weeks to get him ready.” The son of Cacique came unstuck in his quest for a four-timer at Newbury last time out, but Fellowes feels there was a legitimate excuse for that performance. He added: “We were a bit worried about the soft ground as he had run on it once before and he was disappointing, but he was a young horse then and we thought we would give it another go. “We know he has all his better form on quicker ground, so we will keep him to that now.” ...

Ok I'm really over the f in moon for you...does that help?? Wouldnt you like to have instantaneous knowledge, at a glance, of other neddys you're ignorant about wrt their LOOSE/HOLDING form though turns? Via the PDF form in the designated PDF area of your hip pocket...and no im not referring to your VPL...lacey I presume?

While you're in the dictionary...look up 'CONSTANT' I think you'll find I've alerted you to two samples... Its an example of how ignorami can congregate and produce... ...even more ignoramous 'stats'...such as 1 kg =0.1L... Or your 'contradiction' chaos theory theory... Of changing the Female allowance by 0.5kg to stop the massive 0.05L advantage No wonder you didn't want to comment on your 'Math'

Simply post a screen shot of your investments while you're there I think I'm the only poster in the history of NZ racing websites to post such a comprehensive list of the days bets... ...just as the criticism reached a crescendo of antagonism and bullying... ...with one fowl swoop I sent them directly to the hen house...stuttering and spluttering into their sad sorry smack talk... Sure, the great investment day before the Masterclass tipping lesson..but I enjoy ass about face