TAB For Ever

What do you need educated on ? The mug punter has a vital role to play ....but without them we will be racing for bags of kumaras and ribbons or all the races would need to be sweepstakes . It seems tho that there will always be mug punters .

I know the knockers are around ....one day I was at races and a 'believable ' character was spreading hearsay around a whole table of racing cynics about Melody Belle's management and some wag hears and brings over JGalvin and puts the ridiculous claims to him .He very professionally explained the internal workings and there was one very embarrassed gossiper. But all syndicators have their bad horses ,ones that never even make it past the break in stage...I've had a few in recent years ,both codes. Usually good horses and groups of 'good friends' in horses enjoy the syndicate experience more . The social scene around a group horse is usually exciting and a lot of friendships develop. When the horse not any good , many folk get pissed off ,dissatisfied and some even stop paying monthly account. Bad Debts occur. JG 's stats stack up well....Singapore horses overall were able to pay their way compared with NZ.The jockey club there even contributed toward Training bills and starters bonus was introduced years ago.

Too true.....in recent times two of the 'stable changes' ,Beau Geste and Khafeef were when Jamie Richards at the helm !

A slight correction Gamma.....this horse was a Fortuna syndicated horse . So its a bit different. Fortuna is quite big .it has up to 20 horses under its banner...had up to 8 in Singapore but that easing back cos of pending cease of racing there. Leaderboard was bought as a lightly tried stayer after a few races in Europe. So bought as a possible 3200m Cups contender . As a gelding it's residual value was seen as a jumper as it was thought it's best distance may be 4 x miles. It won a few races on flat here once they realised it best on left hand tracks and a wet surface. I think it ran 3rd in NZ Cup [3200m] @ 50/1 when it rained . Later it won the NZ St Leger [2600m] and the Wellington Cup [3200m] when it pissed down ! Fortuna also syndicated and managed champion Melody Belle ...most of it's horses are with Te Akau with a few jumpers with Kevin Myers and at least one horse with Robbie Patterson . Has a couple in Te Akau Cranbourne stable and one at least in UK.

A good explanation Chief ....well done son !

And ban winning punters .....like Casinos with Card counters . Not pissing all their customers off...I got some free nibbles plus a free Hat last week !

Mo'unga would not be the first good horse to take a while getting used to grass track racing. Especially when he settles well back and someone like John Dunn or SOttley out in front controlling the pace and running 58 for last 800 on grass and he caught 10-12 lengths back in running. At Rangiora the pace was on all way..3.10 secs a good time and he got a good drag up behind a handy horse when the leaders throwing out distress signals. Still improving . Didn't race till he was 4 yr old. His owners love winning !

Get with the program Chief. Get involved ...a lot to look forward to. Help futureproof the sport/industry for the next generations.

Part-owner Katrina Purdon said he obviously didn't like Australia heat and since being back has been greatly improved and she sensed he was very well and ready to run well.Unusually he was kicking in his box. 4th choice driver too with Tony H out and SP moved to more favoured stable mate. Probably the first time a junior driver has won a Group 1 with his/her first drive on the horse.. A fantastic race to watch and a reminder that ATC still has a place in NZHarness....just need more horses, bigger fields and more punting in North. Obviously big pool on this big race contributed to huge Divi.

Mounga was a slow developer and had a few issues , but now making up for it. His dam of course from Rugby home and was a multiple Group winner and he cost over $100k at Sales. His owners are very high profile ,successful and love winning races. And I can tell you he was well punted on the Coast , being win favourite both times . If half as good as his mum he will be a handy horse .

Oh cheer up Curious ! I rarely watch this but watched the link and pleased I did ,at the same time as watching Fair Go and Police dog show. Nice piece on Dave O'Sullivan RIP , the jockey premiership , summary of NZ and Aussie Racing , great to hear from boss Sharrock ...a lot of positive stuff. Heading in the right direction , plenty of good stuff to look forward to. Hosts were great , 2 x knowledgable NZ Racing folk. MG asked some hard questions. You out of line with your comment champ !

A good horseman.....a dedicated and hard worker ! His partner ,in life and in the stable Bridget has a good share in the horse as well !

Fantastic race to watch live.....very competitive the entire way ! Katrina Purdon said in speech that the horse had character and just this morning was kicking in his box...very unusual to the point that she had a bet on him. He was last at 800m ,not much closer at 400 and came very wide on turn. Still spanked them !

Thats why it still going......and they got an extra Harness meeting allocated today. Gotta admit it looked like a ploughed paddock in the two races I saw today. 1 min 9 sec......I used to have a watch like that !

I think you ignore a lot more facts around racing than the common racing man such as my self ! Cambridge synthetic IMO has been a huge success and will continue to be...you bang on about cancelled trials in summer months and when the weather OK. Racing on synthetic ,whether lower class Industry days or trials has been most welcomed when inclement weather prevails and this seems to be getting more regular. Most tracks in NZ...as Messara report stated were stuffed. The tracks and the infrastructure around it. A no-brainer to close some so time,energy and money can be concentrated on the ones worth saving. !This being done ,albeit at a slow pace as track renovations have struck a few hiccups. Racing people tend to be very 'my area/track' focus so personal bias always dominated. They never looked at the bigger picture...for 60 years plus everyone agreed too many tracks. Close some but not mine ! And few could ever agree why racing was declining......when Winston demanded answers the 'seriously conflicted' admin people all blamed a few things but everyone blamed the WEATHER. So good old Winston to impress 10% of the population to protect his status , plus he always liked Rugby,Racing and Whisky/Beer , got his money on the Government funds to build 3 x tracks .Cambridge loved it ...it needed to assist with their domination in racing world , the South Island too cos in recent years they felt frustrated that they had been ignored by North and top Admin and blamed others on their capitulation and fear of missing out [FOMO] again. So two out of three not bad ....the CD was disintegrating into a mess ,had too many tracks still and they got swept along as enuff money in Govt slush fund for 3 x synthetics......blah blah. Seems to be a strong CD bias on here among the dissenters...not for me to comment on 150 yrs of conflicted interests. I like the way we heading , best for future..after decades of indifference ! You don't......and you will keep banging on about it....you will keep ignoring the facts .NZ racing in decline ,we a feeder for our neighbour ,Australia ,where it still in their DNA and they have the money and population to maintain it !

I feel so honoured...many thanks. It would be a strange old world if everyone was the same ! My posts are from my own experiences so I not saying what people want to hear , plus most people have their strong personal bias only and influenced by a narrow focus .And often there is no right answer anyway so my thoughts as good as the next person. IMO horses trainers haven't changed too much. They want their horses to run well and try not to 'overcook' them on training track or in trials. They usually run them with improvement expected , sometimes at a distance well short of their optimum. Horses therefore line up with little or no chance of success and in recent years when stakes seemed to vary a lot even from Saturday to Saturday horses simply were waiting for the bigger stakes. Experienced punters recognise this . And expect it even.

I don't think the TAB gonna pour money/advertising into place pools. I suspect they going on Aussie history/experience and challenging people to back winners ...or take the various other options around 'losers' which folk can build into their multis which growing in popularity by the week ! Field sizes in NZ overall seem to be shrinking so paying out 3 x dividends per race seems a bit 'boring'. And possibly not showing place prices on TV screen immediate before a race is surely a huge hint. Challenge yourself to pick winners or a a decent multi with a few first 3 ,4 or 5 options . No ,if Brodie wants a challenge to show his skill and do better than the rest of us he should back on the nose , or throw his astute place chances into multis. Better advice would be to bet on the tote ,become a VIP and negotiate a Rebate and some nice trips and fancy functions. Or take up bridge ! At least he should discuss his 'wants' and 'needs' with TAB bosses and develop a working relationship with them. The TAB & BGP ,have developed a WIN/WIN relationship ...a term you often use....they even have helped the TAB get new people [thousands] to open accounts but they have to negotiate their big bets with the Ma and Pa bets small stakes...the TAB often says NO cos they want and need to make a profit off BGP , and they do ! They certainly not going to endorse big bets on small place pools ......not so long ago they used to pay out what the weight of bets on a race justified....and place prices were less than a $. They starting giving money back !

Of course grass tracks are the preferred surface for racing/trials etc for 8 months of year but the synthetics viewed by many as having their place to fill a void during the wetter months. Certainly the Cambridge track getting a lot of use at handling the huge demand for trackwork etc The recent cancellation of CD trials no great surprise as there was a big day of trials at Foxton plus well attended jumpouts at Waipuk the week prior . IMO ,too many trials anyway , back in the day the likes of Grey Way and Show Gate rarely if ever went to trials...they very rare anyway....In recent years many connections get more excited at trials on grass than they do on raceday cos they looking for a 'good offer'. And the banging on about low numbers at Cambrdge synthetic trials conveniently overlook the fact that most weeks that venue holds jumpouts which many prefer.......so far in April ...4/4 24 heats at jumpouts , 11/4 15 heats, 18/4 17 heats. These heats tend to be small in numbers but many love em and the horses are bouncing off all surfaces with a lot of success !

Brodie old son, why do you feel threatened by a bunch of ma and pas who put $30 with the BGP on a few days a year and the TAB loves it cos it is good publicity for them and it encourages quite small punters to bet more often. So not only does my mother and grandmother bet more often but they learn about the many betting options that prior to BGP 'funday' they knew nothing about. And the youngsters too not only learn of the many options available but they join a community group which introduces them to like minded people having a bit of fun with social outings possibly followed by a bit of whisky and sofa afterwards ! Meanwhile you successful punters ie winners...are not wanted by the TAB ,unless you want the challenge of winning off the TOTE. Go ahead...bet to your hearts delight on the TOTE. You claim it not the money but the Challenge......but seems to me you looking for an error , an oversight on the part of the TAB who overprices a horses chances. A loophole. You similar to a card counter at the Casino or the Aussie punters who were manipulating small pools on TAB's and betting with Bookies who paid out on the tote prices. The casino /bank do not tolerate this and remove the threat. Like the match -fixers in sports contests. Not tolerated and rightly so. Save your distress and bet on the tote. You relish a challenge .......accept it ! The TAB bookies have thousands of FO prices to fix every single day...of course they will get some badly wrong ...so when the observant "Brodie the Rodie' tries to swoop in with an oversize place bet they look and see that that bet will ruin their margin on the race so will refuse it. Not discrimination, but simple contract...offer,acceptance ,invitation to treat ! Better business to work with the thousands of punters who ultimately lose than with the handful of punters who win. And the Codes depend on this for stakes and to put on race meetings. My other advice is to take your case to the TAB bosses and improve your betting limits...discuss it with them !

Dunno if you had experience with outfits / businesses that advertise a lot and are able to work out what works and what doesn't and can differentiate between hard-sell promotions and brand advertising . My personal experience is that it is easier to increase turnover by getting existing customers to spend more then second would be to reconnect with lapsed customers then well back to getting new / first -time customers. Harder if there is strong well respected competitors eg Lotto in the case of gambling. Also racing wagering for newcomers is quite complicated as well and the reputation not what it once was even tho probably as 'clean' as it ever been. .Plus unlike the Golden Kiwi and Lotto the life changing wins are less often. So the top up /refund to BGP on big Harness night was IMO a good move by TAB....giving a 'warm fuzzy' to up to 5000 account holders was sensible....creates goodwill . I appreciated it and couldn't wait to reinvest my stake the next day ,churned it over a few times then lost the lot !. Unsure what the average spend was on the Harness one but during NZ Cup week last November I believe it was $30 , so a lot of Ma and Pas involved. BGP stirs up a few 'knockers' , few seemed to complain when the TAB pays out on a horse 'pre-race' and then the horse gets beaten ! BGP is a 'fun' involvement and note that it now gone into recess for a few months so it a bit pointless advertising their brand on mainstream media. Plus the TAB has plenty of hard sell stuff to advertise...like the Warriors ! Wagering and betting on the NZTAB is crucial for the future of NZ Racing as is Horse Ownership ,and Owners have carried a big burden in recent years with returns about 25% for Owners. Ownership has increased in recent times ,and it had to. Thats why stakes needed a decent boost .It still a very expensive hobby and most haven't the appetite for it. One of the big challenges is the wait from the yearling sales to getting to the races. Can be two years or more. Races for 2 and 3 year olds are often deleted or fillies races thrown in with males etc .A lot of 'sweep stake' races too ,there needs to be. Owners pay again ! Numbers of owners are increasing cos of the many syndicators around but some of the big studs/stables are racing many horses so can't deny them success. Its affordable when only a small share taken.Of course many horses just not ready or mature enough to race as 2 yr old..especially when they running 1.55 MR.

There seems to be a lot of TAB /racing ads out in the marketplace these days. And it been stepped up in recent weeks with stuff in mainstream media . Grins/Slot races , . success of NZ horses in Aussie ,the $10mill dollar yearling auction ,racehorse on train etc Big ads/more stories in NZ Herald etc.Lotto too has had quite a few stories too so folk being reminded of opportunities to gamble. Unfortunately Horse Racing in NZ ,unlike in Aussie , is no longer part of the Kiwi DNA and many/most in fact hold horse racing in quite low regard and think it dishonest and corrupt . As for successful owner Montana Ltd , he spends up large at the sales and in recent years has had many top performers incl Montana Belle , Merlin,Cold Chisel and he quinellad last nights 2 yr old race. He enjoys harness in NZ ,and his day job is CEO of Entain !🙂 You probably knew that.

Gamma , Your opening scenario happened once in a Rugby Club Fundraiser...a Gambling night. Very early on someone simply unloaded on the red or black with a huge bet before the Amateurs running it realised and the Rugby club was cleaned out . The club struggled to get back to even on the night and it was a disaster ! Future years introduced strict rules and limits !

Well Chief , I have seen it ,read it and heard it since BGP first did their thing more seriously than they originally started out which was a bit of very informal fun among a group of friends. I asked one of the organisers in the group, after I joined how they felt about growing criticism toward them. He said 'there will always be haters out there' and he is right. Every big promotion they have had...mainly Karaka Day.....they have been savaged with criticism. And its not about any special deals on the odds offered ....and the TAB bookies are not totally ignorant cos overall the TAB has won the battle. Its been other stuff especially the bets made etc . Being amongst the group from early days I have seen how members ,mostly young just genuinely enjoy being at the races at Riccarton etc with like minded people and seen how many folk enjoy the Karaka day so ,so much . I've mainly sat amongst groups of fellow South Islanders etc . So yes , I sense a lot of jealousy....its real ! Year after year ! I assume in your eyes I am qualified to give my opinion on the organisation......not only WAS I a paid up member ,I've contributed to most of their betting days and one of the few ...maybe the only person on here who has attended all Karaka Days , all NZ Cup weeks of late plus the Grins night on Friday. But I didn't sit amongst the BGP on Friday. Actually met a couple of older Aussies who came over just for the trots and had a real good YARN... that for another day , cos was going to start a new thread on the night but thought that will just be seen by most on here as brown nosing ,arse licking , crawling shitty shitting from a stale,pale , old ex- Christs college , Cost accountant tosser !

You lost me Chief when you said you had a good building to sell ........we talking harness and betting synd here !

Thanks for the kind words Walt ! But face a few of the facts that were there for all to see....... Oscar has had a great season against so-so opposition ....a great form line ,but in all pre-race discussions he was mentioned about 5th or 6th chance. At race time he started 4 /5 in betting on tote , longer at fixed odds. And he ran up to that ......MM burn't gas at start got pushed back and lost ground out wide on turn so finished less than a length from Oscar. Midnight M finished a nose behind Oscar after getting dragged along behind him. The top two Aussies are World Class performers.....top notch , and the third Aussie fancy had whipped one of them recently. Check the results....they had ideal draws ,good drivers and seasoned travellers. Maybe a stand start 3200m would see Oscar giving them a challenge.