curious

The TA will never have any power if they don't proactively, logically and informedly do something about these sort of things which is bloody hard when they are hanging on sucking the NZTR tit.

I want to be clear that I am not opposed to using, training or racing on AWTs if they are maintained and working as they are supposed to. However, the Trainers' Association or someone needs to hound NZTR and/or the clubs concerned for accurate costing analysis and the implications for owners those will have. They also need to ensure that adeqquate measures are in place to mitigate any other issues such as the kickback ones. I agree with Joe Bloggs that there is no better way to destroy a horse's confidence, perhaps permanently. The course proper at Riccarton with its cutting out nature is already bad enough.

And they didn't fix it! This 2 years later.......... Trainers not happy with Pakenham polytrack Posted by: AAP+ at 2:28pm on 22/7/2019 Posted in: Horse Racing News Trainer Colin Little has been one of the biggest supporters of synthetic track racing in Victoria and does not want his scratching of a runner at Pakenham to be seen as a knock on the Polytrack. Little sought stewards permission to scratch Peko from a race at Pakenham on Sunday and will undertake an inspection of the track before deciding whether Vegas Knight takes his place on Tuesday. The trainer was concerned at the excessive amount of kickback at Sunday’s meeting and that a number of horses returned post-race coughing. Under those circumstances Little felt it was unsafe for Peko to race. Little has no doubts the problems can be rectified and spoke to Polytrack’s Australian managing director Reid Sanders who was heading to Pakenham on Monday. “We’ve got the same track at Caulfield. We’ve had it for six years and it’s saved our lives,” Little said. “Pakenham has spent the most money you can spend on an artificial track and it’s the best artificial track we’ve seen and everyone is putting them in because it’s the best track. “But like what happens to turf, sometimes grass is no good. Something has happened to Pakenham recently and in my opinion it was no good yesterday.” Little said he does not want to be seen as bagging Polytrack and walked the track after the last race on Sunday with Pakenham chief executive Michael Hodge. Hodge tweeted on Sunday night Polytrack was arriving to power harrow the track ahead of Tuesday’s nine race card. Little said the track was terribly loose and what the industry called “delaminated”. “I’m sure they’ll fix it,” he said. “It’s not Pakenham’s fault in the sense. They’ve gone out and spent the most amount of money that’s possible to get the best track in the world, but yesterday, and possibly Friday, it’s gone pear-shaped. “I feel sorry for Pakenham. I didn’t want to be giving them a kicking, but I had to stick up for my horse.”

Hodge: We'll fix Pakenham Polytrack issue 26 June 2017 by By Grace Ramage - racing.com CEO Michael Hodge is confident Pakenham Racing Club can remedy issues with the Racing.com Park Polytrack to allay concerns of leading trainers including David Hayes, who admitted he would reconsider sending his horses there 'if there is nothing done'. The degree of kickback was noticeably more than usual at Sunday's meeting and both Hayes and Troy Corstens called for the situation to be addressed. "If there is nothing done to fix the track I don't think I can send my horses there," Hayes said. "The kickback should be about the height of the rail, [on Sunday] it was meters over the jockeys' heads. "It's hard to run horses on a surface like that and to encourage betting. "From experience it doesn't take much to fix it, but something needs to be done." Corstens said: "The kickback was probably the worst that I've seen it, it's clear that something is not right. "My horses really resented it. [Dream First in Race 5] raced with her head on the side and didn't handle it at all. "You go into the races with good chances and there are expectations from your owners, and when they perform as badly as they did yesterday you have to start asking questions. "I love the synthetic tracks and I love racing at Pakenham and Geelong, but if there is an issue, and it might not be anyone's fault, it just needs to be addressed and see if we can fix it." Several jockeys who rode at the meeting also commented that the kickback was the worst they had experienced and subsequently made it hard for horses to make ground in the straight, and Hodge readily admitted there was an issue. "We put our hand up, yesterday the synthetic track did not race to the usual high standard," Hodge explained. "The surface did not perform to our expectation and we are disappointed about that. "The prominent issue is the lack of moisture in the Polytrack, which is a consequence of a lack of rain and we will be addressing that as soon as possible with a likely strategy being irrigation. "The club is confident it will remedy the situation in the lead up to our next synthetic meeting on July 9th."

That's certainly what Martin Collins claim. It may be that contemporary surface mixes do not require it but it has been reported elsewhere that it is required if you don't want the kick back flying over jockey's heads. See the Pakenham situation below for example.

Indeed it is but it needs to be removed before any grooming or conditioning takes place. They are either being totally naive, haven't done their homework, or are telling porkies. Roughly speaking if Saundry is correct, the replenishment cost alone amounts to 50-80k a year. You then have another 3.5 million full replacement cost say every 10 years. So that's another 350k a year. An employee is another 50k or so. You need to buy or lease and maintain specialised conditioning equipment. If there are 250 horses using it year round, those owners will need to cough up a couple of grand each per horse to cover the half a million in costs. I'd have thought the trainers' ssociation would be on the case here and making sure that the CJC provides accurate costings and analysis?

$10 now for the course proper or #1 grass at Foxton. they'll probably need to charge at least double that for the AWTs

I reckon Tim's costing estimate is about 10% of actual. Wouldn't want to be an owner or trainer there having to pay for that. Saundry's estimates are now probably on the low side especially if materials have to be sourced from Oz or Northland as they had to be at Cambridge.

Francis Carroll August 03 2019 12:00 AM The new track surface at Dundalk Stadium will be ready in time for the popular 12 July fixture next year. The big holiday meetings on 'The Twelfth' and 15 August were lost this summer in anticipation of work taking place on replacing the Polytrack. That didn't happen but last week it was announced that the replacement of the artificial horse racing surface will be carried out during the months of April, May and June, 2020, at a cost in excess of €2 million.

Can they not read or research anything there? Dundalk announce full replacement of Polytrack racing surface next year Wed 24 Jul 2019 Dundalk Stadium's Polytrack racing surface is to be replaced over a three-month-period next year. The work is scheduled to begin in April. As recommended by track consultants, and as an additional measure intended to add further body and elasticity to the existing surface, some 54 tonnes of extra fibre will be added to the track in time for the recommencement of this year's racing programme on September 20. Polytrack pioneers Martin Collins Enterprises will manufacture and supply the synthetic surface and carry out the track replacement and fibre replenishment work. Stressing that the overarching objective influencing every aspect of the project was to ensure that Dundalk Stadium retains its position as one of Europe’s premier All-weather horse-racing venues, its Chairman, Leo McCauley commented: "Our goal throughout has been to provide an artificial surface that, on completion, will be amongst the finest in the world."Brian Kavanagh, Chief Executive, Horse Racing Ireland, added: “Dundalk plays a vital role in Irish Racing, staging a variety of races and staging a varied programme of Flat racing, including through the winter"Horse Racing Ireland welcomes this announcement as we have been encouraging Dundalk to undertake this work.”

It will take one full time person just to pick up the shit every day before the track can be groomed. Where the hell is the due diligence on these costings?

Well that's what he reportedly said: Every three to five years synthetic tracks require major maintenance with the replenishment of polymer and fibres. This costs about $250,000. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12096773 What has changed? That is excluding the need for full surface replacement every 8-10 years, day to day maintenance and irrigation so it doesn't blow away in the norwester etc.

I heard that Tim reckoned the maintenance cost would be $50k a year. However Saundry is on record as saying there is a 250k cost every 3-5 years just to replenish the binding material. Did anyone make any sense of that?

OK. Good luck. I heard from one trainer down there that if they wanted to listen to bs they'd rather go to the pub.

I love US racing dirt and turf. Can't stand the synthetics though. Fortunately they have ripped most of them out.

What is natural about a synthetic track?

I've sent apologies. Feel free to report back Michael though in case you are the only one there. When you do, it would be good if you could also post the maintenance cost and revenue analysis as well as the final initial costings. Thanks.

Think he said he wouldn't dispute it.

He drove Parson's truck to the races. The threshold for riding is 100. The youth limit is 150 for driving.

Looks like you should be able to work them round the rugby fields? Otherwise, we probably have room for a few more at Foxton.

Probably both.

Good arrangement if you can sort it I'd say.

They are a complete waste of time. Have been for years. They won't answer any questions with any hard data. You may get a free beer and a sausage roll but otherwise you'd be better off staying home and having a snooze on the couch.

He's the CEO. He would only need to have rocked up for trackwork anywhere in the country for one morning to know the answer to that question. It's insane.

That's a fair question. Whar do we do with jumpers that are going for a spell now? Free to a good home?